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Linguistics thread - Page 22 - UniLang

Linguistics thread

This is our main forum. Here, anything related to languages and linguistics can be discussed.

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Ludwig Whitby
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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2015-01-24, 17:49

dEhiN wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:So does aspect tell you in which direction time is flowing?

No. Time flows from the past to the future anyway, regardless of language. As they say, you can't go back in time; that is, you can't go the other way around, from the future to the past. Now, whether it flows forward or backward is entirely dependent on the language. In most languages, it flows forward (like English), but there are also languages in which it flows backward (like Quechua).

How can time flow backwards while still going from past to future?

We imagine ourselves looking towards the future with the past behind us. You could imagine it the other way, with the past being in front of you and the future behind? The time still flows from the past to the future.

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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-24, 18:02

Ludwig Whitby wrote:We imagine ourselves looking towards the future with the past behind us. You could imagine it the other way, with the past being in front of you and the future behind? The time still flows from the past to the future.

Yeah I can; thanks, I like that explanation! I don't know what it's like in Quechua or other languages where the flow of time is backwards, but I think for me if the past was in front of me I could see myself becoming stuck because my perspective would forever be on that which has already happened. All my past actions - good and bad - could end up imprisoning me. But I'm sure it's because I'm approaching it from an English perspective!
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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby Youngfun » 2015-01-24, 18:04

In the languages I know (English + Romance languages + Chinese) the system is mixed:

-time flows forwards.
-to express relative time, what's before is in the front; what's after is in the back.

Examples:
- English before also means in the front, French avant, Spanish and Portuguese antes, Italian anteriore; Chinese 前.
-Italian posteriore related with poi, despues, depois, depuis and the prefix post-; Chinese 后.

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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby linguoboy » 2015-01-24, 19:34

Youngfun wrote:In the languages I know (English + Romance languages + Chinese) the system is mixed:

-time flows forwards.
-to express relative time, what's before is in the front; what's after is in the back.
Except that we also say "March follows February" or "Chinese New Year comes before Carnevale this year." So even the relative system is mixed.
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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby Koko » 2015-01-24, 19:45

Maybe we even view time as flowing backwards: "I will do this before going there." = "This will be done after I have gone somewhere." Or as Schrödinger's cat.
Last edited by Koko on 2015-01-24, 19:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby linguoboy » 2015-01-24, 19:45

Koko wrote:Maybe we even view time as flowing backwards: "I will do this before going there." = "This will be done after I have gone somewhere."

Um...what?
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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby Koko » 2015-01-24, 19:47

linguoboy wrote:
Koko wrote:Maybe we even view time as flowing backwards: "I will do this before going there." = "This will be done after I have gone somewhere."

Um...what?

Thinking aloud :whistle: . Didn't even plan on posting anything :lol: .
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-01-24, 20:19

Koko wrote:Or as Schrödinger's cat.


Huh?

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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby Koko » 2015-01-24, 20:33

As shown by those two statements, it could be expressed both in the perspective of time flowing backwards and as flowing forwards and it's only one or the other when you "open the box."
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-01-24, 21:01

Well, that's the principle of any kind of lottery/raffle. I'm no expert (to put it mildly) but my understanding is that the interesting part of the Schrödinger's cat is actually what happens when the box is closed.

Bon, chel l'é l prinzip de vigni sfera de lotarìa. No son n espert (per la dir a na vida lijiera) però chel che gé entene l'é che la pèrt enteressanta del giat de Schrödinger te realtà l'é cie che entravegn canche la scàtola é serèda.
Last edited by IpseDixit on 2015-01-31, 18:25, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby Koko » 2015-01-24, 21:08

IpseDixit wrote:Well, that's the principle of any kind of lottery/raffle. I'm no expert (to put it mildly) but my understanding is that the interesting part of the Schrödinger's cat is actually what happens when the box is closed.

I meant that until you open the box it is both; ergo it's only one or the other after opening it.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby razlem » 2015-02-01, 22:23

As I'm still unfamiliar with syntax, could someone explain the Chomsky-hate bandwagon?
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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-02-02, 0:37

razlem wrote:As I'm still unfamiliar with syntax, could someone explain the Chomsky-hate bandwagon?

As I understand it, it's mostly because he never bothered with justifying anything empirically and didn't even bother to check his grammaticality judgments against those of other native speakers of English.

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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby linguoboy » 2015-02-02, 16:35

vijayjohn wrote:
razlem wrote:As I'm still unfamiliar with syntax, could someone explain the Chomsky-hate bandwagon?
As I understand it, it's mostly because he never bothered with justifying anything empirically and didn't even bother to check his grammaticality judgments against those of other native speakers of English.
Sounds about right. Also the early iterations of his "Universal Grammar" were so English-centric is was laughable.
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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-02-02, 21:03

linguoboy wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
razlem wrote:As I'm still unfamiliar with syntax, could someone explain the Chomsky-hate bandwagon?
As I understand it, it's mostly because he never bothered with justifying anything empirically and didn't even bother to check his grammaticality judgments against those of other native speakers of English.
Sounds about right. Also the early iterations of his "Universal Grammar" were so English-centric is was laughable.

I think even the later ones are pretty English-centric, but at least it's possible to use them with other languages.

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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby dEhiN » 2015-02-03, 21:48

vijayjohn wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Also the early iterations of his "Universal Grammar" were so English-centric is was laughable.

I think even the later ones are pretty English-centric, but at least it's possible to use them with other languages.

Is UG widely (or relatively widely) accepted nowadays? Languages are so varied from major family to major family, from the little I know I don't see how it would be possible to create/derive a "Universal Grammar". Also if one were somehow derived/created (not sure which verb would be correct here) successfully, would it imply the possibility of one Proto-language? Or am I stretching things too much?

On a separate but linguistics-related note, I'm about to start a Linguistics 101 course at The Virtual Linguistics Campus which is run by the University of Marburg in Germany. It's an MOOC (Massive Online Open Classroom) and it's not for credit afaik. But I haven't done a Linguistics 101 course in about 10 years, so it should be fun to do again. Hopefully after I'm done I will know a little bit more about what I'm talking about in this thread. Or at least I can carry on more informed conversations without sounding like an arse :D.
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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-02-03, 23:03

dEhiN wrote:Is UG widely (or relatively widely) accepted nowadays?

Hell yeah! (Like it or not :lol:)
Languages are so varied from major family to major family, from the little I know I don't see how it would be possible to create/derive a "Universal Grammar".

By making a framework that's flexible enough to accommodate all of them
Also if one were somehow derived/created (not sure which verb would be correct here) successfully, would it imply the possibility of one Proto-language?

No.
Or am I stretching things too much?

Yes :lol:
On a separate but linguistics-related note, I'm about to start a Linguistics 101 course at The Virtual Linguistics Campus which is run by the University of Marburg in Germany. It's an MOOC (Massive Online Open Classroom) and it's not for credit afaik. But I haven't done a Linguistics 101 course in about 10 years, so it should be fun to do again. Hopefully after I'm done I will know a little bit more about what I'm talking about in this thread. Or at least I can carry on more informed conversations without sounding like an arse :D.

Have fun and good luck! :)

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dEhiN
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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby dEhiN » 2015-02-04, 5:22

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:On a separate but linguistics-related note, I'm about to start a Linguistics 101 course at The Virtual Linguistics Campus which is run by the University of Marburg in Germany. It's an MOOC (Massive Online Open Classroom) and it's not for credit afaik. But I haven't done a Linguistics 101 course in about 10 years, so it should be fun to do again. Hopefully after I'm done I will know a little bit more about what I'm talking about in this thread. Or at least I can carry on more informed conversations without sounding like an arse :D.

Have fun and good luck! :)

Thanks! And of course if I have difficulty understanding a concept, I now know where to turn. :twisted:
Je veux parler toutes les langues dans le monde!

vijayjohn
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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-02-04, 21:30

dEhiN wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:On a separate but linguistics-related note, I'm about to start a Linguistics 101 course at The Virtual Linguistics Campus which is run by the University of Marburg in Germany. It's an MOOC (Massive Online Open Classroom) and it's not for credit afaik. But I haven't done a Linguistics 101 course in about 10 years, so it should be fun to do again. Hopefully after I'm done I will know a little bit more about what I'm talking about in this thread. Or at least I can carry on more informed conversations without sounding like an arse :D.

Have fun and good luck! :)

Thanks! And of course if I have difficulty understanding a concept, I now know where to turn. :twisted:

Hey, I'm not just a reference manual, you know! :P :lol:

Koko
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Re: Linguistics thread

Postby Koko » 2015-02-05, 4:54

vijayjohn wrote:Hey, I'm not just a reference manual, you know! :P :lol:

Luckily there's also linguoboy… :lol: I can't think of many others (who are as active as you and linguo). I know a few things that I am positive of having a 95% certainty on.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^


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