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TAC 2015: Arabic in bite-sized parts - Page 2 - UniLang

TAC 2015: Arabic in bite-sized parts

This forum is for the Total Annihilation Challenge. See the sticky thread for more information.

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Zireael
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Gender: female
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-03-02, 15:17

Notes based on Arabic FAQ from http://arabic.desert-sky.net/index.html.
Short vowels are usually not indicated in writing.For example, looking at the word فلفل, you would see "f-l-f-l" and not know what vowels come in between those letters. The good news is, this gets easier with time and practice. And if you memorize the verb forms (more on them below), that really helps in figuring out the correct pronunciations for lots of words.

Therefore, a beginning student would see كتب as k-t-b, and not know which vowels to insert between letters. This word could be "kataba" (he wrote), "kutiba" (it was written), or "kutub" (books). How do you know which one it is? Well, if you're an absolute beginner, you won't know all the possible pronunciations, and you simply won't know how to pronounce it without checking a dictionary or asking a native speaker. This is frustrating, but as you learn more vocabulary and grammar, things will get easier. Once you gain more knowledge of Arabic, you'll know that كتب could be a verb in the regular past tense (kataba) or the passive voice (kutiba), or a noun (kutub). Then you'll figure out the correct pronunciation from context.
Learning the verb forms as soon as you can will also help with this. You'll know all the patterns for conjugating the different verb types and deriving certain words (like active/passive participles) from verbs. For example, you'll know that form 3 verbs are pronounced يُفاعِلُ in the present tense. Then when you see يغادر, you'll know the pronunciation without having to look it up. Still, when you see a form 1 verb you don't know, you will have to look it up in the dictionary to know the pronunciation of the present-tense conjugation. But basically, reading Arabic will get easier with time and knowledge.

Stylistically Arabic is also complicated; it's quite common for sentences to go on for a paragraph, so that by the time you reach the end you have to remind yourself what the original subject of the sentence was! The Arabic writing style is also a lot more "flowery" than the way English is usually written. So writing in Arabic is quite different from writing in English, and it takes a lot of practice to write in a smooth, natural style.

Differences between the MSA and the dialect that I noticed (I referred to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Arabic)

* no case endings
* vowel length doesn't seem to matter
* third syllable from the end is stressed
* ta marbuta usually not pronounced
… or is it simply the formal short pronunciation described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language?

30 Anki cards today, 15 tomorrow. The gaps are getting bigger and bigger, the average is 12 days, the max is 27 days (nearly a month!).

New words
Bada بعد after
Hatta حتى until
Huna هنا here
Lakin لكن but
Rubbama ربما maybe
Shay' شيء something

Aasal عسل honey


P.S. Sarah told me the second letter in yodʒeboni is ع, so I can finally stop misspelling it.
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

Zireael
Posts: 161
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Gender: female
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-03-04, 18:22

Lesson 5, 04.03.2013
I impressed Sarah by writing اين انتِ؟؟؟ on FB when waiting for her to show up.
I read my homework aloud for Sarah (and in doing so, I discover a few irregularities in the paradigm of قال qaala and نام naama; more precisely, it's a disappearing alif)
We cover the future tense – it's formed by adding a sa س prefix to the present forms or adding the word sawfa سوف before a present form.

New words
The order is: IPA pronunciation – Arabic spelling – meaning.
Qul قل say!
Kul كل eat!
Arsel ارسل send!

Sawfa سوف will

P.S. Next meeting – speaking. And Sarah promised to find me some handouts for writing, since my handwriting is atrocious in any language I write :P
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

Zireael
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Gender: female
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-03-09, 11:20

As I said – dissecting Sarah's posts on FB lets me learn new words :P
I used Acapela Text to Speech to get the pronunciation.

198 cards total in Anki. I think I'll start on the Polish -> Arabic deck during the weekend.

New words
The order is IPA pronunciation - Arabic spelling - meaning.
yaa يا oh
hehehe ههههههه

mutakida متأكدا sure
rabna ربناlord
sadiqa صديقة female friend
sadiq صديق male friend
safara سفر travel
(al-)qalb القلب heart
tathak تضحك laugh
yumayin يومين days


khulaa خلاص salvation
ayd (?) اعز dearest
rafutaq رفيقة female companion

Italiya ايطاليا Italy
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

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Meera
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Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Meera » 2013-03-11, 15:15

عظيم! لغتك جيد جدا. تدرس فصحى ؟
अहिंसा
TAC 2015:  (hi) (ja) (ar) (fr)
Loves: (bn) (ta) (id) (tr) (ur)

Zireael
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Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-03-12, 17:30

Meera wrote:عظيم! لغتك جيد جدا. تدرس فصحى ؟


سكراً! انا أدرس نثرة فصحى و عاميات

(I would have said 'a mixture', but the list of possible words Aratools gives me is too long)

***
During the weekend, I found a good Arabic – English dictionary: http://www.aratools.com/#text-dict-tab

My Polish → Arabic deck is up to 150 items.

/As an aside, I also realized I can use Anki to salvage what little I remember from my German classes – it's a puny 70 items now and my knowledge is almost exhausted. I can't even remember the verb paradigm (the forms for ihr and Sie escape me)... That's what happens when I don't use the language.../

New words
The order is IPA pronunciation – Arabic spelling – meaning.

Yawm نوم sleep (noun)
al-yawm اليوم today
sihr سحر magic
qilla قلة lack of sth

iʃ (?) ايش official


Lesson 6, 11.03.2013
Sarah forgot the handout for writing. There was some speaking involved, but mostly it was revision. I'm pleased to say I only forgot a few forms of the present paradigm, and I've got the past and imperative down. Also, I now know that dual (antuma) always has an alif in the inflectional ending.
Then Sarah presented some prepositions (including the suffixes for objects) and gave me 8 sentences as homework.

New words
The order is IPA pronunciation – Arabic spelling – meaning.

Aan عن about
Alaa علئ on, about
bi ب by, with
ka ك like
maaa مع with

Al-ingliziyya الالجليزيةEnglish
Al-haqiba الحقيبة bag
al-haqiqa الحقيقة truth
al-sayyara السيارة car
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

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Meera
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Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Meera » 2013-03-12, 18:24

Zireael wrote:
Meera wrote:عظيم! لغتك جيد جدا. تدرس فصحى ؟


سكراً! انا أدرس نثرة فصحى و عاميات



Which dialects?
अहिंसा
TAC 2015:  (hi) (ja) (ar) (fr)
Loves: (bn) (ta) (id) (tr) (ur)

Zireael
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Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-03-12, 19:45

Which dialects?


Yemeni

If I get around to writing a post this week, it'll probably be a summary of MSA stuff vs. dialectal stuff. It's a 50/50 mixture, pretty much.
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

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Meera
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Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Meera » 2013-03-16, 16:19

Zireael wrote:
Which dialects?


Yemeni

If I get around to writing a post this week, it'll probably be a summary of MSA stuff vs. dialectal stuff. It's a 50/50 mixture, pretty much.


Oh wow! Yemeni is pretty cool!
अहिंसा
TAC 2015:  (hi) (ja) (ar) (fr)
Loves: (bn) (ta) (id) (tr) (ur)

Zireael
Posts: 161
Joined: 2012-02-27, 12:29
Gender: female
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-03-18, 15:40

Lesson 7, 18.03.2013
Today we covered Lesson 2 and 3 from Madinah site (Sarah's book has fatwaonline in the corner, and the pictures are slightly different, but the material is *identical* to the Madinah site).
I knew some words already, and the only suprise was the dialectal pronunciation of قط, not /qitta/, but /qet/. English borrowings galore!

224 cards in my Arabic → English deck and 184 cards in Polish → Arabic deck.

(As an aside, my German deck is 148 items)

New words
The order is IPA pronunciation – Arabic spelling – meaning.
Nadʒdʒil رجل man
Tadʒer تاجر (top) businessman
Kelb كلب dog
Dʒamal جمل camel
Dik دياك cock (animal, not body part)
Mindeel منديل handkerchief
'amreen غمرين exercise

Maksuur مكسور broken
Maftuuh مفتوح open
Dʒalsu جالسى sitting
Waqef واقف standing
Qadeem قديم old
Su'aar صعير small
Kabir كبير big
Wasax وسخ dirty
Barud بارد cold
Qareeb قريب near
Bareed بعيد far
Har حار hot
Nadeef نظيف clean (adj)
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

Zireael
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Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-03-21, 9:56

MSA features:
* ðahaba 'to go'

Dialectal features:
* no case endings, no nunation
* vowel length doesn't seem to matter
* third syllable from the end is stressed
* ta marbuta usually not pronounced
* vowel /e/ exists in pronunciation in addition to the three MSA vowels, as in /qet/ for قط

Expect an update on Saturday! :D
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

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voron
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Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby voron » 2013-03-21, 12:55

Zireael wrote:Today we covered Lesson 2 and 3 from Madinah site

I have the Madinah book in PDF, and it doesn't seem to be very suitable for self-studying, does it? since it doesn't have any grammar explanations, only examples and exercises.

Some of your pronunciation clues for Madinah book seem to be slightly off, are they typos or dialectal features maybe?
Nadʒdʒil رجل man - radʒul
'amreen غمرين exercise - tamreen (the first letter is ta, not ghayn. it looks a bit like "ghayn" in the book because it makes a ligature with "mim" )
Su'aar صعير small - SaGeer (The middle letter is ghayn, not 'ayn)

I knew some words already, and the only suprise was the dialectal pronunciation of قط, not /qitta/, but /qet/.

AFAIK /qitt/ is a male cat, and /qitta/ (with ta marbuta) is a female cat.

Zireael
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Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-03-21, 17:34

Thanks a lot, voron!

It's possible I misread my r as n, as my handwriting is messy. The other two I probably misheard due to my hearing loss (I had to ask Sarah to repeat tamreen several times and still wasn't sure what the first letter was)
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

Zireael
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Gender: female
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-03-23, 8:30

Yesterday evening I took part in an international exchange meeting of sorts (Georgians, Tunisians, Italians and Irish) in a foundation for hearing-impaired I'm part of. The international coordinator sort of expected me to come, as I am able to help her with translating into English. She already knew from a previous meeting that I can also speak some Spanish, so that's how I was introduced: 'This is Kasia and she speaks very good English and also some Spanish'.

The goal of the meeting was to see the different alphabets (the Irish one was funny, neither Celtic nor runic, just scratches 'made on trees', the Georgian one on the other hand looks like flowers of all things).

So, before the crowd got bigger, I made my way to the Tunisian table, grabbed a pen, scrawled my name in Arabic alphabet and introduced myself in Arabic.

Cue a high-pitched squeal and a shriek of 'She can speak Arabic language too!' in English, loud enough for the coordinator and the entire room to hear. Then all sorts of questions like 'What else can you say in Arabic?' 'How long have you been learning it?' 'How's thank you in Arabic?' followed. For most of the meeting, random people (speaking ones, not sign language users – I can only sign some letters) from the Polish side of the exchange would tell me that I am a genius for knowing Arabic :)

My oral communication was limited to stuff like shukran and law samaht and salam aleikum, and ism ummi Teresa (when my mum came to pick me up) as the Tunisians have a completely different pronunciation and verbal paradigm (no, I am not that wise, I simply looked the Tunisian dialect up on the Internet before the meeting to be prepared).
Therefore, I sort of expected the verbs to be problematic, but they turned out to be a total fail.

The end of the story is that I have got a photo in a headscarf and I know why it doesn't fall off, and I have a new FB friend for actually using Arabic in conversations.
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

Zireael
Posts: 161
Joined: 2012-02-27, 12:29
Gender: female
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-03-25, 18:50

Lesson 8, 25.03.13
We covered sun and moon letters from Sarah's book – equivalent to the second half of Lesson 3 from Madinah site.
My favorites from the new words were fakeer (probably related to the Hindi 'fakir') and zahraa – in Baldur's Gate 2, there was a minor character, a djinni from Calimshan, named Chan Zahraa, who had nothing in common with a flower...
Next lesson scheduled for after Easter break.
Anki stats – Arabic → English deck is made of 268 items, Polish → Arabic is 226 (and German is 179)

New words
The order is IPA pronunciation – Arabic spelling – meaning.
Haloo حلو sweet
Mareed مريض sick
Daftar دفتر notebook
Ghanee غني rich
Fakeer فكير poor
Dukan دكن kiosk
Tufaah تفاح apples
Laðið لذيذ delicious
Taweel طويل tall
Qasuur قصير short
Al-mareed المريص patient
Akh الاخ brother

qamariyya قمرية moon (adj.)
shamsiyya شمسية sun (adj.)
haroof حروف letters

Dʒanna جنة paradise
Xobz خبز breath
Ghada خبذ lunch
Hawaa هواء air
Thawood
Dahab ذهب gold
Zahraa زهرة flower
Ash-shams الشمس sun

Daif ضيف guest
Rasul رسل messenger
Saboon صابون soap
Laham لحم meat
Salaa صلاة prayer

Yed يد hand
Fam فم mouth
Sadir صدر chest
Dahr ظهر back (noun)
Ras راس head
Wadʒa وجة face
Isbah اصبح finger
Dafir ظفر nail

Al-fadʒir الفجر dawn
Al-dohr الظُر noon
Al-asar العصر afternoon
Al-maghreb المغرب sunset time
Al-ishaa العشاء evening
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

Zireael
Posts: 161
Joined: 2012-02-27, 12:29
Gender: female
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-03-27, 20:35

I found the other Tunisian (present at the meeting) on FB. Both Aida and Asin use Arabizi (also known as Arabic chat alphabet).
So far, my method of dealing with unfamilliar spelling conventions is simple - copy'n'paste the sentence into Yamli. Any words I don't know I run through Aratools then. Works like a charm and I've learned some new words. I need to work on my Arabizi, though.

Fortunately, I've found a good site for practising writing. It's the Lang-8 website, and I picked German and Arabic as my languages.

List of new words to come tomorrow. I need to finish a quick translation exercise due Friday
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

Zireael
Posts: 161
Joined: 2012-02-27, 12:29
Gender: female
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-03-29, 8:01

Possible Tunisian influence in the pronunciation of the words below – if you see any mistakes, Tunisian pronunciation, tell me. After all, I'm learning Yemeni.
Words mostly gleaned via Yamli from Arabizi.

New words
The order is IPA pronunciation – Arabic spelling – meaning.
Laysa ليس is not

Aagiba عجيبةprodigy
Al-um الأم maternal, mother (adj.)
Azka أزكىthe best
Bareed بريد mail
Dʒamaa جامعة university
Hayat حيات life
Momken ممكن possible
Shaxs شخص person
Tamam تمام exact, complete
Tiib طِيب good
Zakiya ذكية clever
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

Zireael
Posts: 161
Joined: 2012-02-27, 12:29
Gender: female
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-04-02, 17:11

I started using Lang-8 for my Arabic (and German).
Everyone here in Poland is complaining about snow this Easter... my Arabic-speaking friends included.
Anki stats: Arabic → English 309 items, Polish → Arabic 256 items (and my German deck is up to 231 items, including 1 grammar card)


New words
The order is IPA pronunciation – Arabic spelling – meaning.
Lan لن will not
Al-aam العام year
Al-yowm اليوم the day
Al-ums الامس yesterday

Duwan دون without
Manarruk مبروك congratulations
Rabiyah رَبِيع spring
Tahyaat تحيات greetings
Tawaqaf توقف stop
Yutti يأتي he arrives
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

Zireael
Posts: 161
Joined: 2012-02-27, 12:29
Gender: female
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-04-08, 13:18

Lesson 9, 08.04.2013
Nothing goes right today! I took the wrong notebook to the lesson (one that's filled up), so we spent the hour talking about my family in Arabic and my only notes are the ones that Sarah took.
Oh, and apparently 'I have' works like a preposition...

New words
The order is IPA pronunciation – Arabic spelling – meaning.
Ana ledaee أنا لدي I have

Al-alwan الألوان colors
Al-ashar شعر hair
Abyad أبيض white
Ahmar أحمر red
Axdar أخضر green
Asfar أصفرyellow
Ashqar أشقر blond
Aswad أسود black
Azraq أزرق blue
Boni بني brown
Ramadi رمادي grey

Amm عم paternal uncle
Amma عمة paternal aunt
Ukht أخت sister
Xal خال materal uncle
Xala خالة maternal aunt

Aynaa عينا eyes
Al-unnuha الونها the color of them
Motawasta al-tool متوسطة الطول medium height
Muhandis مهندس engineer

Omraee عمري my age
ashrun عشرون twenty
θalaθuna ثلاثون thirty
arbaa'un أربعون forty
xamsun خمسونfifty
settun ستون sixty
saba'un سبعون seventy
θamanun ثمانون eighty
tesa'un تسعون ninety
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

Zireael
Posts: 161
Joined: 2012-02-27, 12:29
Gender: female
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-04-15, 10:54

Lesson 10, 15.04.2013
Last week was pretty hectic. Classes cancelled, classes added, bonus classes added, bonus classes cancelled.
End result: little to no added Anki cards and piling up Anki reviews...

Today's lesson was mostly spent talking, even though I did bring the correct notebook. I had to tell Sarah about my family from memory (the only word I couldn't remember was aswad, black) and then we moved on to asking questions.

Homework: write 10 questions with 10 different verbs.

New words
Kam كم how much
Mata متى when
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)

Zireael
Posts: 161
Joined: 2012-02-27, 12:29
Gender: female
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Re: TAC 2013: Arabic in bite-sized parts

Postby Zireael » 2013-04-22, 12:19

Lesson 11, 22.04.2013

Last week was hectic? This week, my university hosts a conference. Result? My timetable upended, classes cancelled, me playing truant from Spanish lesson to go to my favorite teacher's lecturer...

... and me squeezing an hour for Sarah into all this mess.
We did some talking, and we did some more exercises from her book.

Actually, my speaking, reading and writing are better than understanding spoken Arabic.
Today, I felt as though I had to locate the meaning of every individual word before I was able to think about a response, let alone formulate it. My HoH cousin reports a similar feeling, but in our native language. Any thoughts?


New words
Ataker an أعتقر أن I think that
Maktab albareed مكتب البريد post office

Al-xarif الخريف fall

Al-fasil
الفصل class
Gurfa غرفة room
Hammam حمام bathroom
Matbax مطبخ kitchen
Mudira مدير manager
Saa ساعة watch
Xaradʒa خرج went out

Esbania
اسبانيا Spain
Al-Filibini الفلبين Philippines

Al-tulab الطلاب students (pl.)
Last edited by Zireael on 2013-05-09, 7:02, edited 1 time in total.
Native:  (pl) Very advanced/near native:  (en-US)
Intermediate:  (es)
Beginner  (de),  (sgn),  (tpi),  (en_old),  (ar)
Artificial languages:  (art-qya),  (art-sjn),
My interest has been drawn by:  (fa),  (zh),  (ja)


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