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TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي ) - Page 12 - UniLang

TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby dEhiN » 2014-12-10, 8:19

Meera wrote:Update: So after thinking it over I think I'm going to focus on Levantine Arabic and fus7a. Of course with al-kitaab i still have look over the Egyptian videos and vocabulary but my teacher is from Iraq and has lived most of his life in Jordan. He said for his help we should do Levantine because he does not speak Egyptian or understand it very well :P

Smart choice :D
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby Meera » 2014-12-10, 18:22

dEhiN wrote:
Meera wrote:Update: So after thinking it over I think I'm going to focus on Levantine Arabic and fus7a. Of course with al-kitaab i still have look over the Egyptian videos and vocabulary but my teacher is from Iraq and has lived most of his life in Jordan. He said for his help we should do Levantine because he does not speak Egyptian or understand it very well :P

Smart choice :D


Yeah, I was thinking of Egyptian because it is more useful but if my teacher speaks good Levantine I thought it would probably be better to focus on that one so I have someone who can help :mrgreen:
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby dEhiN » 2014-12-10, 19:06

Can you understand both? At least in terms of phonological differences? What variant of Arabic have you been learning in your class? Only MSA? Or a regional variant as well?
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby voron » 2014-12-10, 20:09

Hi Meera, good luck with your studies!

I have some questions as well about your Arabic classes. How did your classmates get interested in Arabic and what is their level? Had many of them been exposed to Arabic before they started the course? What resources do you guys use to study?

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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby Meera » 2014-12-10, 21:29

dEhiN wrote:Can you understand both? At least in terms of phonological differences? What variant of Arabic have you been learning in your class? Only MSA? Or a regional variant as well?


Native speakers usueally say they can understand both but mainly because those two variants dominate Arab media. Turkish dramas in the Middle East are usueully dubbed in Levantine (the Syrian version) but many dramas are produced in Egypt in the Egyptian dialect. Many Arabic films are in Egyptian and produced in Egypt. And a lot of music is in either Egyptian or Levantine. Most of the famous pop stars either come from Egypt or Lebanon and many Lebanese have songs in Egyptian. For example most of Nancy Ajram's songs are in Egyptian and she has a few in Lebanese and Khaliji. Same with Myriam Fares. In general native speakers say that Egyptian and Lebanese are similar and they can understand them, I don't think non-natives can unless they have studied both. Much of the vocab is similar, the two biggest differences I can think of right now, is Levantine uses a french "j" for jiim and Egyptian uses a "g". Egyptian also uses a double negative like the French "ne pas" they use "ma... fish" while Levantine does not they just use "ma". Of course it is more complicated than that lol But once you learn one you can easily learn the other. I don't know why my teacher doesn't understand Egyptian well, he is from Iraq but lived in Jordan most of his life, I'm wondering if he just wasn't immersed in Egyptian media much.

Our class uses the "al-kitaab" method which focuses on MSA, Egyptian and Levantine (I believe the book it is the Levantine as spoken in Dammacus but my teacher is saying Lebanese is very similar to it.) Basically they teach all three but we are supposed to focus on MSA and pick one dialect to focus on. Usually the teacher picks this for you, for example when I took it before I had an Egyptian she made us do Egyptian and now my Iraqi teacher wants us to do Levantine. However the book wants you to listen and do exercises for both. It has vocab and videos for all three. In my class all our homework had to be done for both of them but the focus was on MSA. If I write anything when the exercise isn't for a dialect it must be MSA.
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby Meera » 2014-12-10, 21:41

voron wrote:Hi Meera, good luck with your studies!

I have some questions as well about your Arabic classes. How did your classmates get interested in Arabic and what is their level? Had many of them been exposed to Arabic before they started the course? What resources do you guys use to study?


Shukran Voron! My class is a huge mix. Most of them are from the Military. We have some students who have husbands/wives from the Middle East, we have some students who are majoring in Criminal Justice or another language like Spanish or French and needed another language. We even have a nurse major in our class! Me and the Somali student are the only two from the region. I would say majority of them have never studied Arabic before or really exposed it. Many of the Arabic majors are doing it for translation jobs and for career purposed too. I was surprised too many of the students are not traditional student ages. We have a huge age range from 25-55. We are using al-kitaab, rosetta stone and we did things like the Iraqi museum site, we were shown a power point on calligraphy, we were taught about business protocol and Arabic food. My second class starts on January 20th, I'm a bit nervous because they say after the first class it gets very intense. I know in future classes we start to read Arabic stories and we have to write essays in Arabic but for that won't be for another year yet. :P
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby eskandar » 2014-12-10, 21:49

Meera wrote:Yeah, I was thinking of Egyptian because it is more useful ...
Depends on how you define 'useful'. If your goal is to just enjoy and understand Arabic media, Levantine's just as good a choice as Egyptian as there is no shortage of music, movies, TV shows, etc. in Levantine Arabic. If your goal is to travel in Arabic-speaking countries (outside of Egypt and the Levant) and speak Arabic, then Egyptian may be more useful as it is a bit more widely understood, although many people understand Levantine nowadays because of the growing popularity of Lebanese media and Syrian soap operas. But if your goal is to speak Arabic with Arabs in the United States, you're better off with Levantine, as the majority of US Arabs are from the Levant.

I'm not trying to discourage you from learning Egyptian - it's the colloquial dialect I chose to study as well, for its utility and because there seem to be better resources for it. But I think the widely-held belief that "Egyptian is the most useful dialect" is a bit exaggerated at times and should come with some qualifiers attached. Just food for thought.

Edit: I guess I was writing my post while you posted here, so my comments on Levantine media are probably redundant for you!
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby Meera » 2014-12-10, 22:09

Shukran Eskandar your post was very helpful! The only place I know for a fact I might be going to is Jordan, the Arabic program is trying to organize a trip there for Arabic students, the other place might be Morocco.Jordan seems like more of possibility right now though. Other than these two places I don't really have immediate plans to go anywhere and will probably be using Arabic here. :)
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby eskandar » 2014-12-10, 23:24

As they say in Egyptian Arabic - العفو علی ايه؟ :)
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby dEhiN » 2014-12-11, 6:23

Are there different dialects of Levantine? I always thought Levantine was one dialect spoken over several Arab-world countries.
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby eskandar » 2014-12-11, 15:19

'Levantine' is an umbrella term encompassing multiple (mostly mutually intelligible) dialects. The same way we can talk about North American English, which is broadly similar although there are differences between Canadian and US English, or between a Boston accent and a Texas accent, we can speak of Levantine Arabic despite differences between, say, Jordanian and Lebanese Arabic, or between urban and rural/Bedouin subdialects.
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby Meera » 2014-12-11, 20:08

dEhiN wrote:Are there different dialects of Levantine? I always thought Levantine was one dialect spoken over several Arab-world countries.


Yeah there isn't too much of a difference but Levantine basically has Syrian, Lebanese, Jordan, Palestinian. There are differences between them and even in Lebanon and Syria different cities have different accents. For example even within Lebanese, you have the accent in Beirut and then there is northern and southern dialects and probably more. Lebanese tends to have French mixed in a lot, I'm not sure if Syrian or Jordanian do as much. My teacher told us too that sometimes the dialects spill over through countries too. For example he said Syrians near Iraq might speak more like an Iraqi and that some villages near the Syrian border might speak more with a Levantine accent. I'm not sure how correct this is, I'm just going by my teacher. I think the Levantine speakers don't have that much difficulty understanding each other.
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-11, 20:34

eskandar wrote:'Levantine' is an umbrella term encompassing multiple (mostly mutually intelligible) dialects.

At first, I thought that said "mostly mutually unintelligible" for some weird reason. :lol:

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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby dEhiN » 2014-12-12, 1:36

eskandar wrote:'Levantine' is an umbrella term encompassing multiple (mostly mutually intelligible) dialects. The same way we can talk about North American English, which is broadly similar although there are differences between Canadian and US English, or between a Boston accent and a Texas accent, we can speak of Levantine Arabic despite differences between, say, Jordanian and Lebanese Arabic, or between urban and rural/Bedouin subdialects.

Off-topic here (wrt to Arabic) but in the US do you get different dialects? I know there are plenty of accents, but I never really thought of the US as having dialects. Well, let's keep it to the continental US.

And thanks eskander and Meera for informing me. Huh, now when I go to start learning Arabic, I'll have much to consider. I just figured I would stick to MSA, but maybe I will pick a dialect and focus on it. I assume in the Arab-speaking world there is no such concept as a standardized version that it taught to ASL students (like the umbrellas American English and British English, or Parisian French, or whatever German dialect GSL students learn)? Or would MSA fit this bill?
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby eskandar » 2014-12-12, 2:26

dEhiN wrote:Off-topic here (wrt to Arabic) but in the US do you get different dialects? I know there are plenty of accents, but I never really thought of the US as having dialects. Well, let's keep it to the continental US.
That all depends on how you define 'dialect' vs. 'accent' (or 'language' for that matter) which is ultimately an arbitrary distinction. Wikipedia has some info on dialect groups in the US.

I assume in the Arab-speaking world there is no such concept as a standardized version that it taught to ASL students (like the umbrellas American English and British English, or Parisian French, or whatever German dialect GSL students learn)? Or would MSA fit this bill?
That would be MSA. The spoken dialects are not really standardized in any way.
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby Meera » 2014-12-12, 3:31

Yeah David, that's why they teach MSA in most Arabic classes. It's what Arabs learn in school and what educated Arabs will write in. Most newspapers are written in it and anything formal will be written in it. You will be able to read most websites, They really stress it in Arabic classes and most textbooks you use will teach MSA unless it specifies a dialect. Most teachers and Arabs will tell you to focus on MSA first and then it will be easier to move on to a dialect. Even in my class that uses some dialect mainly focuses on MSA and my teacher constantly says "its most important". I don't agree necessarily but even most Arabs think MSA is very important to learn if you are learning Arabic.
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby dEhiN » 2014-12-14, 6:41

Meera wrote:Yeah David, that's why they teach MSA in most Arabic classes. It's what Arabs learn in school and what educated Arabs will write in. Most newspapers are written in it and anything formal will be written in it. You will be able to read most websites, They really stress it in Arabic classes and most textbooks you use will teach MSA unless it specifies a dialect. Most teachers and Arabs will tell you to focus on MSA first and then it will be easier to move on to a dialect. Even in my class that uses some dialect mainly focuses on MSA and my teacher constantly says "its most important". I don't agree necessarily but even most Arabs think MSA is very important to learn if you are learning Arabic.

Thanks Meera; why don't you agree necessarily?
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby TeneReef » 2014-12-14, 16:02

Meera wrote:Yeah David, that's why they teach MSA in most Arabic classes. It's what Arabs learn in school and what educated Arabs will write in. Most newspapers are written in it and anything formal will be written in it. You will be able to read most websites, They really stress it in Arabic classes and most textbooks you use will teach MSA unless it specifies a dialect. Most teachers and Arabs will tell you to focus on MSA first and then it will be easier to move on to a dialect. Even in my class that uses some dialect mainly focuses on MSA and my teacher constantly says "its most important". I don't agree necessarily but even most Arabs think MSA is very important to learn if you are learning Arabic.


This is similar to Tamil. :)
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby vijayjohn » 2014-12-15, 5:58

dEhiN wrote:Thanks Meera; why don't you agree necessarily?

I can understand why she might not agree. Dialects are what people actually speak day to day, so if you're interacting with people from one specific Arabic-speaking country, then learning the dialect they speak is going to be more useful than learning MSA for the purposes of talking to them. In fact, learning MSA can feel like nothing more than an additional complication. I think I've even seen at least one person complaining about that on this forum.

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dEhiN
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Re: TAC Meera 2014 (हिंदी, 日本語 ,عربي )

Postby dEhiN » 2014-12-16, 5:06

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Thanks Meera; why don't you agree necessarily?

I can understand why she might not agree. Dialects are what people actually speak day to day, so if you're interacting with people from one specific Arabic-speaking country, then learning the dialect they speak is going to be more useful than learning MSA for the purposes of talking to them. In fact, learning MSA can feel like nothing more than an additional complication. I think I've even seen at least one person complaining about that on this forum.

Though I suppose, and this is coming from the perspective of someone who hasn't started learning Arabic (yet), unless you know for sure which area you're going to travel to, how can you determine which dialect to learn? Also, what if you travel to other parts in your life / Arabic learning journey?

TeneReef wrote:This is similar to Tamil. :)

How is this similar to Tamil? Do you mean in that most Tamil classes/courses teach literary Tamil?
Je veux parler toutes les langues dans le monde!


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