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2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?) - Page 7 - UniLang

2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby Itikar » 2015-02-07, 0:34

Koko, it is nothing strange. A transitive verb has always 'avere' as auxiliary verb.

So you can remember that 'cominciare' uses 'essere', but when you'll use it, or any other verb, transitively you'll use 'avere'.

Lo spettacolo è cominciato.

Piuttosto hai cominciato a leggere qualcuno dei fumetti che ti avevamo consigliato?
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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby Itikar » 2015-02-07, 0:39

Koko wrote:
Btw, I couldn't think of any translations of as it turned out and the closest thing that came to my mind was sembrerebbe (lit: it would seem).

Hmm, I guess che that works anche in inglese. Though è strano non c'è an immediate translation of it.
Out of curiosity what Italian dictionaries are you guys using?

As it turned out: da come son(o) andate le cose, a conti fatti, in fin dei conti
It turns out that: risulta che, vien fuori che
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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-02-07, 1:13

Koko wrote:Thanks vijay

Np
Itikar wrote:
Koko wrote:
Btw, I couldn't think of any translations of as it turned out and the closest thing that came to my mind was sembrerebbe (lit: it would seem).

Hmm, I guess che that works anche in inglese. Though è strano non c'è an immediate translation of it.
Out of curiosity what Italian dictionaries are you guys using?

I don't think anyone was using any, really. :hmm: I got the impression that IpseDixit was going from memory and I just looked it up on WordReference.

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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby Koko » 2015-02-07, 1:19

Itikar wrote:Out of curiosity what Italian dictionaries are you guys using?

Uso www.wordreference.com/enit/. Vijay l'ha usato anche.

As it turned out: da come son(o) andate le cose, a conti fatti, in fin dei conti
It turns out that: risulta che, vien fuori che

Ma certo ch'è Itikar che ci dà una lista di traduzioni! :P
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby Itikar » 2015-02-07, 1:28

Koko wrote:Uso www.wordreference.com/enit/. Vijay l'ha usato anche.
So Collins plus their web-based database.

My favourite is Garzanti's Hazon. You can access the latter here, although to view the phrasal verbs, such as 'turn out', you need to register and to log in.
They have also a good monolingual dictionary.
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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-02-07, 3:11

Itikar wrote:
Koko wrote:Uso www.wordreference.com/enit/. Vijay l'ha usato anche.
So Collins plus their web-based database.

OMG, I didn't realize until I saw your comment and clicked on that link that the WordReference dictionary was based on Collins! :o :lol:

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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-02-07, 14:26

Itikar wrote:As it turned out: da come son(o) andate le cose, a conti fatti, in fin dei conti
It turns out that: risulta che, vien fuori che


Well, to me all those translations sound clunky in that context except maybe for the first one (I'd rather use the preposition per, though), but even if you used that expression, you'd still need the verb sembrare IMO:

Da/Per come sono andate le cose, sembrerebbe che non riesca a gestire tre lingue allo stesso tempo

Whereas da/per come sono andate le cose non riesco a gestire tre lingue allo stesso tempo doesn't sound quite right to me, or at most I would understand that he doesn't manage to handle three languages because of some unfavourable event that occured in his life.

A conti fatti and in fin dei conti mean something like "after all" rather than "it turns out".

As for risulta che, I would use it only to talk about written documents, for example dal verbale di polizia risulta che tu stessi andando a 90 km/h in centro abitato.

Vien fuori che instead to me conveys an idea of astonishment when you find out something that was tried to be concealed, like in e praticamente vien fuori che suo padre ha quattro amanti!

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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby Itikar » 2015-02-09, 11:13

IpseDixit wrote:Well, to me all those translations sound clunky in that context except maybe for the first one (I'd rather use the preposition per, though), but even if you used that expression, you'd still need the verb sembrare IMO:
The first one is in fact from Hazon, in the following example "as it (o things) turned out it was not he who..., da come sono andate le cose risulta che non fu lui a..."

The other two are clunkier also in my opinion but I added them to add variety. They are the translations provided by Oxford-Paravia.

Regarding the verb 'sembrare' I think that in colloquial usage it sounds probably more natural. However, given that all dictionaries give "risultare che" and "accadere" as the translations of the intransitive 'turn out' I have come to think that these latter are more adherent, since if something "turns out" it is a fact, not an opinion or an impression → 'sembrare'.

But really you should tell this to those lexicographers rather than to me.
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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby Itikar » 2015-02-13, 13:44

I've realized now that the best Italian monolingual dictionary IMO is available online and for free: http://dizionari.corriere.it/cgi-bin/sabcol/trova

Koko, you can use it along with the two dictionaries on the website of Garzanti and the DOP.

I hope you shall enjoy them. Ciao! :)
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto!
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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby Koko » 2015-02-14, 5:07

Thanks! I don't if I'll be using it any time soon, but it should become handy when I do.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby Koko » 2015-03-07, 5:51

Urrà!! (a proposito ora quel è la mia frase preferita) Oggi sulla via per casa ho parlato a un amico nell'italiano e penso che sia stato il più ne ho mai parlato!

Anche suppongo che pronunciavo delle frasi in modo strano, visto che quando gli ho chieso "Come stai?" ha pensato che parlassi il giapponese :lol: .
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-03-07, 23:32

Koko wrote:Urrà!! (a proposito, ora quel è la mia frase parola preferita) Oggi sulla via per di casa ho parlato a un amico in italiano e penso che sia stato il più ne ho mai parlato più di quanto abbia mai parlato.

Anche suppongo anche che pronunciavo abbia pronunciato delle frasi in modo strano, visto che quando gli ho chieso "Come stai?" ha pensato che parlassi (slightly better: stessi parlando) il in giapponese :lol: .


Frase is a false friend since it means "sentence" or "clause" in Italian.

You can say both parlare giapponese or parlare in giapponese.

---

Ma il tuo amico è italiano? Perché se non è italiano, in realtà non penso che sia un cattivo segno il fatto che abbia pensato che tu stessi parlando giapponese, dopo tutto le due lingue hanno una certa somiglianza nel modo in cui suonano, no?

(Con italiano intendo dire italiano di madrelingua).

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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby Koko » 2015-03-08, 0:01

IpseDixit wrote:Frase is a false friend since it means "sentence" or "clause" in Italian.

Ho inteso dirla ;) (le frase intere)

Ma il tuo amico è italiano? Perché se non è italiano, in realtà non penso che sia un cattivo segno il fatto che abbia pensato che tu stessi parlando giapponese

No, ma lo trovo divertente che a lui il mio italiano avessi suonato come il giapponese. Non penso che lo parli così cattivo.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-03-08, 0:07

Koko wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:Frase is a false friend since it means "sentence" or "clause" in Italian.

Ho inteso Intendevo dirla ;) (la frase intera)

Quale frase?

No, ma lo trovo divertente che a lui il mio italiano avessi fosse suonato come il giapponese. Non penso che lo parli così cattivo male.

Ma non pensi che l'italiano e il giapponese siano per certi versi simili nella pronuncia?

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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby Koko » 2015-03-08, 5:18

IpseDixit wrote:
Koko wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:Frase is a false friend since it means "sentence" or "clause" in Italian.

Ho inteso Intendevo dirla ;) (le frasi intere)

Quale frase?

Quelle che gli stessi dicendo. (non me li ricordo)

Ma non pensi che l'italiano e il giapponese siano per certi versi simili nella pronuncia?

Suppongo che sì, però "Come stai?" non è una possibilità nel giapponese perché non ci esistono [*] dei gruppi consonantici.

[*] Ehm, si può dire "esisterci?"
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-03-08, 14:17

Koko wrote:(non me le ricordo)

E allora come fanno ad essere le tue frasi preferite se neanche te le ricordi??

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Re: 2015 TAC Koko — Italiano (• Čeština?)

Postby Koko » 2015-03-08, 21:05

Sono stupido :lol: : avevo letto male la mia risposta. Non voglio spiegarlo in tutta, ma pensavo che "frase" fosse riferendo al seguente invece al precedente, cioè "urrà." Scusami lo sbaglio!
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^


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