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TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்) - Page 2 - UniLang

TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby Dormouse559 » 2015-01-06, 19:37

Unfortunately, there is no rule. You just have to memorize which construction follows which verb. And it's a good idea to think about what construction follows a verb, since it's the preceding verb that determines the construction (J'apprends à manger, J'essaie de manger, Je continue à manger, Je lui demande de manger).
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-06, 19:41

It's not like prepositions in English are intuitive either, anyway! :P

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-06, 20:06

Dormouse559 wrote:Unfortunately, there is no rule. You just have to memorize which construction follows which verb. And it's a good idea to think about what construction follows a verb, since it's the preceding verb that determines the construction (J'apprends à manger, J'essaie de manger, Je continue à manger, Je lui demande de manger).

Thanks for the tip. I never thought of it as that before. But then some verbs can take both à and de after it, right? For example, I've seen essayer de and essayer à. Is there a difference in meaning between the two?

vijayjohn wrote:It's not like prepositions in English are intuitive either, anyway! :P

True but since the infinitive in English only uses the preposition "to", it's easier (well it seems that way to me, even though I'm aware at times English uses the gerund instead, or the base form - so minus the preposition). But because to me the French infinitive form is equivalent to the English infinitive - thus, "to" + the base form - I was surprised when I started seeing prepositions used before infinitives. So, to me, something like j'apprends à manger would translate (in my head) to "I'm learning to/at to eat". Or j'essaie de manger would be "I'm trying for to eat". Yes, I know literal translations don't work. But since I'm still in the translate from English into French or vice versa stage, or at least I do that half of the time, it can get confusing seeing constructions like above.
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby Dormouse559 » 2015-01-06, 20:49

dEhiN wrote:Thanks for the tip. I never thought of it as that before. But then some verbs can take both à and de after it, right? For example, I've seen essayer de and essayer à. Is there a difference in meaning between the two?
The difference between essayer de and essayer à is that essayer à is wrong. :P One could say s'essayer à (to dabble in), but that is exclusively followed by a noun.

As for verbs that can be followed by either preposition … I can't think of any. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but I don't know about them. Venir can either be followed by the plain infinitive or de. Je viens manger means "I come to eat", and Je viens de manger means "I've just eaten".
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-07, 20:28

Dormouse559 wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Thanks for the tip. I never thought of it as that before. But then some verbs can take both à and de after it, right? For example, I've seen essayer de and essayer à. Is there a difference in meaning between the two?
The difference between essayer de and essayer à is that essayer à is wrong. :P One could say s'essayer à (to dabble in), but that is exclusively followed by a noun.

As for verbs that can be followed by either preposition … I can't think of any. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but I don't know about them. Venir can either be followed by the plain infinitive or de. Je viens manger means "I come to eat", and Je viens de manger means "I've just eaten".

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-07, 22:10

dEhiN wrote:Or j'essaie de manger would be "I'm trying for to eat".

I'm pretty sure that's grammatical in some varieties of English, but why "for"? Wouldn't it literally be "from" or "of"? ;)

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-11, 6:55

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Or j'essaie de manger would be "I'm trying for to eat".

I'm pretty sure that's grammatical in some varieties of English, but why "for"? Wouldn't it literally be "from" or "of"? ;)

Tu as raison, la traduction littérale de "j'essaie de manger" serait "I'm trying of to eat".

Mise à jour:
Je n'ai pas fini mes buts pour le portugais pour la dernière semaine. C'est dommage :(. Mais j'ai commencé à lire mon livre pour le portugais. En fait, je l'ai commencé hier soir! Du côté positif, le mercredi soir l'échange des langues pour le portugais (=Portuguese language exchange?) a repris. Alors j'ai une opportunité à pratiquer quelques portugais (et aussi mon français le jeudi soir quand l'échange des langues pour le français a repris).

Au total je suis heureux avec mon avancement. J'ai appris d'une nouvelle (pour moi) ressource s'appelé Linguee. Peut être elle deviendra ma meilleure ressource pour moi! Haha! Aussi, j'ai eu l'opportunité à pratiquer un peu d'espagnol le samedi avec deux amies de Venezuela. Il était agréable (ou: joli?).

I will try to finish my goals for Portuguese today (Sunday). Only then will I create goals for Spanish and Tamil, which I want to study this week. Hopefully I'm able to get Portuguese done so that I don't end up doing 3 languages in one week, and throw off my schedule before even the first month is done!
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby Dormouse559 » 2015-01-11, 8:40

dEhiN wrote:Mise à jour:
Je n'ai pas fini accompli/atteint mes buts pour le portugais pour la dernière semaine dernière. C'est dommage :(. Mais j'ai commencé à lire mon livre pour le de portugais. En fait, je l'ai commencé hier soir! Du côté positif, le mercredi soir l'échange des langues linguistique pour le en portugais (=Portuguese language exchange?) a repris. Alors j'ai une l'opportunité à de (mais "avoir l'occasion de" est bien plus commun) pratiquer quelques un peu de portugais (et aussi mon français le jeudi soir quand l'échange linguistique en français aura repris).
"Dernier" veut dire "final" avant un nom et "most recent" après un nom.

Il y a une distinction intéressante à l'égard des jours de la semaine. Quand un jour de la semaine apparaît avec un article défini, ça implique une habitude (J'allais à la plage le samedi). Quand il n'y a pas d'article défini, ça implique un seul événement (Je suis allé à la plage samedi).

dEhiN wrote:Au total je suis heureux avec mon avancement de mes progrès. J'ai appris entendu parler d'une nouvelle (pour moi) ressource s'appelée Linguee. Peut être qu'elle deviendra ma meilleure ressource pour moi! Haha! Aussi, j'ai eu l'opportunité de pratiquer un peu d'espagnol le samedi avec deux amies de Venezuela. Il était Ça a été agréable (ou: joli? Non, "agréable" marche très bien).
Moi aussi, j'utilise Linguee. Je le trouve extrêmement utile. Je me sers aussi de WordReference et de Termium Plus, qui offre des traductions de vocabulaire un peu plus technique.
N'hésite pas à corriger mes erreurs.

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby Trapy » 2015-01-11, 23:01

Hmm, ce Linguee peut traduire à la roumain.. :D. Bien trouvée
"and now every toilet will burn to ashes!""

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-12, 3:05

dEhiN wrote:Alors j'ai une l'opportunité à de (mais "avoir l'occasion de" est bien plus commun) pratiquer quelques un peu de portugais (et aussi mon français le jeudi soir quand l'échange linguistique en français aura repris).

J'ai écrit "...en français a repris" parce que les échange linguistiques both took place (en français?) la semaine dernière.

Dormouse559 wrote:"Dernier" veut dire "final" avant un nom et "most recent" après un nom.

Il y a une distinction intéressante à l'égard des jours de la semaine. Quand un jour de la semaine apparaît avec un article défini, ça implique une habitude (J'allais à la plage le samedi). Quand il n'y a pas d'article défini, ça implique un seul événement (Je suis allé à la plage samedi).

Merci pour les astuces!

dEhiN wrote:J'ai appris entendu parler d'une nouvelle (pour moi) ressource s'appelée Linguee.

Pourquoi tu as utilisé "avoir entendre parler" pour "I learned"? C'est necessaire pour les choses comme une ressource?

dEhiN wrote:Il était Ça a été agréable (ou: joli? Non, "agréable" marche très bien).

I thought that "it was" was always translated as "il était/c'était"! When do I use the imperfect and when do I use the compound past for translating "it was"?

Dormouse559 wrote:Je me sers aussi de WordReference et de Termium Plus, qui offre des traductions de vocabulaire un peu plus technique.

Oui, j'ai entendu dire de ce site Termium Plus. C'est un site du gouvernement de Canada!
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-12, 3:20

So I didn't end up finishing my Portuguese goals for last week! I did read through some more of the introductory pages (and in doing so learned a bit about the history of Portuguese as well as some etymologies such as the word vindaloo [which the book implies originated from Goa] comes from Portuguese vinho 'wine' + alho 'garlic'). I want to finish the introductory pages since they contain the Pronunciation Guide as well as stuff about accents, etc. While I've been speaking and listening to Brazilians long enough that I'm probably ok with pronunciation, I figure it never hurts to read it in this context: trying to go through a particular book from beginning to end.

I'm going to modify the Portuguese goals I had last week. I'm only going to finish the introductory pages, and at that do them tomorrow (Monday). Once I finish them then I will create some goals for Spanish and Tamil, and begin studying them. This means that I will have 5-6 days only to do Tamil and Spanish, so I might make small goals.

In retrospect, I think what happened with Portuguese was not that I didn't have the time to finish my goals. But that I set too high a goal. For French I only had 10 pages to read. For Portuguese I set 46 pages to read! And I got French out of the way first, but that meant I left only half a week to read 46 pages! Going forward, for the short-term future I will definitely set smaller goals.


My goal (due Jan 12/15):

Teach Yourself Complete Brazilian Portuguese
  • All the introductory pages (pp. iii - xxxvi) (I've read up to xxvi already.)
Last edited by dEhiN on 2015-01-20, 4:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby Dormouse559 » 2015-01-12, 4:01

dEhiN wrote:J'ai écrit "...en français a repris" parce que les échange linguistiques both took place (en français?) la semaine dernière.
Ah, désolé, je t'ai mal compris. Ce que tu as initialement écrit est correct.

dEhiN wrote:Pourquoi tu as utilisé "avoir entendu parler" pour "I learned"? C'est necessaire pour les choses comme une ressource?
En fait, je l'ai utilisé pour "I learned of". On peut traduire ça par "apprendre de" mais généralement en parlant d'une mort (J'ai appris de sa mort hier). Dans d'autres cas, "entendre parler de" est préféré.

Dormouse559 wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Il était Ça a été agréable (ou: joli? Non, "agréable" marche très bien).

I thought that "it was" was always translated as "il était/c'était"! When do I use the imperfect and when do I use the compound past for translating "it was"?
While it's true that the imperfect of être is a lot more common, the passé composé is used from time to time. When talking about a non-habitual event, such as your Spanish conversation, it's better to use the passé composé. The imperfect in that sentence implies you used to regularly talk with your friends (which was "agréable") but no longer do.

dEhiN wrote:Oui, j'ai entendu dire parler de ce site Termium Plus. C'est un site du gouvernement du Canada!
Nouvelle complication ! :P

"entendre parler de" = learn of sth/hear about sth
MAIS
"entendre dire que" = hear (tell) that
N'hésite pas à corriger mes erreurs.

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-13, 4:43

Yay, I finished my goals for Portuguese (finally)! Since it was only the introductory pages, I technically didn't learn enough Portuguese to write anything in it - hence my writing this in English. Well, that and I don't think I know enough Portuguese in general to write more than the most basic of sentences.

My goal (due Jan 12/15):

Teach Yourself Complete Brazilian Portuguese
  • All the introductory pages (pp. iii - xxxvi)

Now time for Spanish and Tamil.

My goals (for the week of Jan 11/15 to Jan 17/15):

Thamizh Paadanool
  • Introduction (which consists of 4 sections; 11 pages in total)

Teach Yourself Latin American Spanish
  • Introduction (pp. 1 - 5)
  • Chapter 1, Dialogues 1-5* (pp. 6 - 13)

*Each chapter is quite long, even longer than in TY BP and TY French. So I'm going to break up the chapters to roughly go through about the same number of pages in each book.
Last edited by dEhiN on 2015-01-20, 4:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-16, 22:31

I finally was able to do some Tamil study today. I haven't quite finished the Introduction, but I did read through the first 3 parts.

I reviewed the alphabet, and although I already know the script and alphabet, it was good to listen to the recordings to fine-tune my pronunciation. (Especially since my ears have developed over the past several months and I'm able to pick out sounds more accurately).

It seems that I've been pronouncing some of the vowels more like in English, which could be both a result of English being my native tongue and perhaps the pronunciation of my parents, who are native Tamil speakers but simultaneously native English speakers. I was also able to work on my pronunciation of some of the consonants, and finally get down the order of the alphabet (well ok, really the order of the consonants since Tamil actually has an abugida and not an alphabet).

I also learned the numbers from 1 to 20 and the tens from 10 to 100 (ie, 10, 20, 30, etc.). Again, I already knew most of them (up to 49) but it was good to learn the proper written form and pronunciation based on the written form.

The numbers:
ஒன்று - 1
இரண்டு* - 2
மூன்று - 3
நான்கு - 4
ஐந்து - 5
ஆறு - 6
ஏழு - 7
எட்டு - 8
ஒன்பது - 9
பத்து - 10

பதினொன்று - 11
பனிரண்டு - 12
பதிமூன்று - 13
பதிநான்கு - 14
பதினைந்து - 15
பதினாறு - 16
பதினேழு - 17
பதினெட்டு - 18
பத்தொன்பது - 19
இருபது - 20

பத்து - 10
இருபது - 20
முப்பது - 30
நாற்பது - 40
ஐம்பது - 50
அறுபது - 60
எழுபது - 70
எண்பது - 80
தொண்ணூறு - 90
நூறு - 100

*I still keep pronouncing இ as [ɪ] for the numbers 2 and 11 - 18, even though இ is I think pronounced [i]. I have to work on correcting my pronunciation. I guess over the past 15 years or so I've developed the habit of mispronouncing things based on how I heard it at the time. Hopefully the correction process won't be too difficult.

I also learned the words for the fractions 1/4, 1/2, 3/4:

கால் - 1/4
அரை - 1/2
முக்கால் - 3/4

To help me remember the fractions, I wrote the following in my notebook:

கால் + முக்கால் = ஒன்று
அரை + அரை = ஒன்று
கால் + கால் = அரை

I'm happy with my progress. Tonight we've having a celebration for my dad's 60th birthday! (:partyhat:) So that means I probably won't do any more studying tonight. That leaves tomorrow to finish up Tamil and do Spanish. Fortunately with Spanish, I'm expecting most of it to be review, which means I won't have to write anything in my notebook and it shouldn't take me as long to go through it. But if I don't get through everything, then I will push my goals back to Sunday.

Next week I'm going to try and start my goals earlier in the week.

Edit: Apparently the site wrote the Tamil word for sixty wrong, so once I learned the proper form, I corrected it here (both to remind myself and for anyone else who might use this to learn!).
Last edited by dEhiN on 2015-01-20, 4:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-16, 23:23

dEhiN wrote:றுபது - 60

Wait, really, or is that just a typo? :shock: In Malayalam, the first vowel in that word is short. :hmm:

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-19, 4:11

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:றுபது - 60

Wait, really, or is that just a typo? :shock: In Malayalam, the first vowel in that word is short. :hmm:

அது சரி, at least according to the site I'm using. I'll confirm tomorrow with my mom.
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-19, 4:17

dEhiN wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:றுபது - 60

Wait, really, or is that just a typo? :shock: In Malayalam, the first vowel in that word is short. :hmm:

அது சரி, at least according to the site I'm using. I'll confirm tomorrow with my mom.

Wow. Weird! Because like all the other numbers are exactly the same as in Malayalam. :lol: (Well, okay, 1-9 is a bit different in Malayalam, but in Malayalam, that sounds almost exactly like in Madurai Tamil, too. :P I wonder whether Madurai Tamil has a short vowel in the word for 60! :shock: :lol:).

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-19, 4:20

I was able to finish my goals for last week. Well I didn't fully finish Tamil, but I didn't realize how much new vocabulary there would be in just the introduction alone. I also did a little bit more of TY Spanish.

My goals (for the week of Jan 11/15 to Jan 17/15):

Thamizh Paadanool
  • Introduction (which consists of 4 sections; 11 pages in total) (I actually did the first 3 lessons and the first section "Time" of lesson 4, so 10 of 11 pages.)

Teach Yourself Latin American Spanish
  • Introduction (pp. 1 - 5)
  • Chapter 1, Dialogues 1-5 (pp. 6 - 13) (I actually did Dialogue 6 as well, because it was short and the last dialogue in the Diálogos section.)
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby Meera » 2015-01-19, 4:24

How is the TY latin american spanish David? Is it good so far?
अहिंसा
TAC 2015:  (hi) (ja) (ar) (fr)
Loves: (bn) (ta) (id) (tr) (ur)

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-19, 4:35

Meera wrote:How is the TY latin american spanish David? Is it good so far?

Yeah, it is quite good! I wish I had the tapes for it (I'll have to see if I can maybe find it online). They've structured it so that each chapter is set in a different Latin American country. So the tapes give you a chance to hear the differences in pronunciation. But the book also highlights differences in pronunciation and vocabulary, pointing out standard forms and dialectal forms within Latin America and even both contrasting to Spain and within Spain!

I'm not sure if the modern (2010) version of TY LA Spanish follows the same format.

Edit: If you want to buy the book, I found it online at AbeBooks.com. You can see what they offer for TY LA Spanish here. I bought the 1994 edition, and it looks like the pricing is even cheaper than what I bought it for (which was around $10 CAD).
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