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TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்) - Page 3 - UniLang

TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-19, 4:41

Nice going! (And oops, I forgot that நாற்பது is slightly different from Malayalam, too. :P In Malayalam, we have [l] instead of [r] there :lol:).

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-19, 4:50

Well don't forget Vijay that these are the written forms. For example, I'm pretty sure that Colomban (and Jaffnan?) Tamil say something like ஐன்ஜ instead of ஐந்து. And also I'm used to pronouncing the 'r' in நாற்பது as 't'; similar to how ற்று is 'ttru'.

vijayjohn wrote:Nice going!

ரொம்ப நன்றி!
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby Meera » 2015-01-19, 5:15

dEhiN wrote:
Meera wrote:How is the TY latin american spanish David? Is it good so far?

Yeah, it is quite good! I wish I had the tapes for it (I'll have to see if I can maybe find it online). They've structured it so that each chapter is set in a different Latin American country. So the tapes give you a chance to hear the differences in pronunciation. But the book also highlights differences in pronunciation and vocabulary, pointing out standard forms and dialectal forms within Latin America and even both contrasting to Spain and within Spain!

I'm not sure if the modern (2010) version of TY LA Spanish follows the same format.

Edit: If you want to buy the book, I found it online at AbeBooks.com. You can see what they offer for TY LA Spanish here. I bought the 1994 edition, and it looks like the pricing is even cheaper than what I bought it for (which was around $10 CAD).


Oh wow, most of the textbooks I saw for classes here stick to Mexican Spanish but it would be cool to hear all the differences! I will deffintly check it out! Gracias :)
अहिंसा
TAC 2015:  (hi) (ja) (ar) (fr)
Loves: (bn) (ta) (id) (tr) (ur)

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-19, 5:27

dEhiN wrote:Well don't forget Vijay that these are the written forms.

I know, but apart from the exceptions I pointed out, even the written forms are identical to Malayalam. :lol:

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-20, 4:26

vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Well don't forget Vijay that these are the written forms.

I know, but apart from the exceptions I pointed out, even the written forms are identical to Malayalam. :lol:

Well I asked my mom and yeah apparently that site has it written wrong. It should be அறுபது. But நாபது is correct. Although interestingly, her spoken form of some of the tens changes:

பத்து
இருவது
முப்பது
நாற்பது (I think, but she may have said நாற்வது)
ஐந்பது
அறுவது
எழுவது
எண்வது (I think, but she may have said எண்பது)
தொண்ணூறு
நூறு

I'm not sure why for 20, 60, 70, 80, and possibly 40 she changes ப to வ. And I know it's not just her; I've heard my dad say it as well as I believe other SL Tamils. (My dad grew up in Jaffna while my mom grew up in Colombo, so I think that's just the SL Tamil spoken form).
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-20, 4:35

Time for my weekly goals. I've decided to do goals from the Monday to the Sunday (so consider the week to start on Monday) only for my TAC; otherwise for me the week starts on Sunday.

My goals (for the week of Jan 19/15 to Jan 25/15):

Teach Yourself Get Started in French
  • Chapter 2 (pp. 10 - 17)

Teach Yourself Complete Brazilian Portuguese
  • Chapter 1 (pp. 1 - 13)

I also was able to read some TYCBP today, finishing the first dialogue and knocking off 4 or 5 pages. So I'm happy.
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-20, 4:37

Meera wrote:Oh wow, most of the textbooks I saw for classes here stick to Mexican Spanish but it would be cool to hear all the differences! I will deffintly check it out! Gracias :)

De nada y buena suerte!
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-20, 5:02

dEhiN wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Well don't forget Vijay that these are the written forms.

I know, but apart from the exceptions I pointed out, even the written forms are identical to Malayalam. :lol:

Well I asked my mom and yeah apparently that site has it written wrong. It should be அறுபது. But நாபது is correct. Although interestingly, her spoken form of some of the tens changes:

பத்து
இருவது
முப்பது
நாற்பது (I think, but she may have said நாற்வது)
ஐந்பது
அறுவது
எழுவது
எண்வது (I think, but she may have said எண்பது)
தொண்ணூறு
நூறு

I'm not sure why for 20, 60, 70, 80, and possibly 40 she changes ப to வ. And I know it's not just her; I've heard my dad say it as well as I believe other SL Tamils. (My dad grew up in Jaffna while my mom grew up in Colombo, so I think that's just the SL Tamil spoken form).

I think it's just lenition, really. Like probably some sound change like /p/ > [b] > [β] > [ʋ] or something like that took place over time lol. Or whatever, even if it didn't, something similar happens in spoken Malayalam, too, except there, it's only between vowels AFAIK. :)

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-20, 7:12

vijayjohn wrote:I think it's just lenition, really. Like probably some sound change like /p/ > [b] > [β] > [ʋ] or something like that took place over time lol. Or whatever, even if it didn't, something similar happens in spoken Malayalam, too, except there, it's only between vowels AFAIK. :)

Huh, ok! Though actually it would probably have been [b] > [β] > [ʋ] as, unless Old Tamil had different rules for voicing, in those numbers ப would be [ba].
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-20, 8:17

dEhiN wrote:
vijayjohn wrote:I think it's just lenition, really. Like probably some sound change like /p/ > [b] > [β] > [ʋ] or something like that took place over time lol. Or whatever, even if it didn't, something similar happens in spoken Malayalam, too, except there, it's only between vowels AFAIK. :)

Huh, ok! Though actually it would probably have been [b] > [β] > [ʋ] as, unless Old Tamil had different rules for voicing, in those numbers ப would be [ba].

Yeah, sorry, I didn't include the conditioning environment. I know it would be [ba] because /p/ > [b] / V_V (that is, /p/ becomes [b] intervocalically) in Tamil.

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-26, 4:06

 (en-ca)So I finished my goals for this week!
 (pt-br)Terminei meus objetivos para esta semana!
 (fr)J'ai fini mes buts pour cette semaine!

My goals (for the week of Jan 19/15 to Jan 25/15):

Teach Yourself Get Started in French
  • Chapter 2 (pp. 10 - 17)


Teach Yourself Complete Brazilian Portuguese
  • Chapter 1 (pp. 1 - 13)


 (en-ca)Tomorrow I'll post my goals for next week.
 (pt-br)Amanhã vou postar meus objetivos pra (ou: para a) próxima semana.
 (fr)Je vais poster (ou: afficher?) demain mes buts pour la semaine prochaine.
(Actually, does it matter where I put demain in that sentence? Can it go at the very beginning, like in English and Portuguese, or at the very end?)
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby Dormouse559 » 2015-01-26, 7:39

dEhiN wrote: (fr)J'ai fini accompli/atteint mes buts pour cette semaine!
Chapeau ! :D

dEhiN wrote: (fr)Je vais poster (ou: afficher? poster ✓) demain mes buts pour la semaine prochaine.
(Actually, does it matter where I put demain in that sentence? Can it go at the very beginning, like in English and Portuguese, or at the very end?)
Généralement, "demain" va au début ou à la fin du syntagme, pas au milieu. Je crois qu'on peut le mettre parmi les autres compléments de phrase (adverbial phrases), s'il y en a, mais ça n'affecte pas ta phrase.
Last edited by Dormouse559 on 2015-01-27, 16:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-27, 4:59

Dormouse559 wrote:
dEhiN wrote: (fr)J'ai fini accompli/atteint mes buts pour cette semaine!
Chapeau ! :D

Merci! Mais pourquoi les verbes accomplir ou atteindre, et pas finir? On n'utilise pas finir avec les choses comme les buts?

Dormouse559 wrote:
dEhiN wrote: (fr)Je vais poster (ou: afficher? poster ✓) demain mes buts pour la semaine prochaine.
(Actually, does it matter where I put demain in that sentence? Can it go at the very beginning, like in English and Portuguese, or at the very end?)
Généralement, "demain" va au début ou à la fin du syntagme, pas au milieu. Je crois qu'on peut le mettre parmi les autres compléments adverbiaux, s'il y en a, mais ça n'affecte pas ta phrase.

Alors, je dois écrire "je vais poster mes buts pour la semaine prochaine demain" ou "demain je vais poster mes buts pour la semaine prochaine"? Dans ce cas, peut-il constituer un syntagme "je vais poster mes buts"? Par exemple, puis-je ajouter demain comme ça "je vais poster mes buts demain pour la semaine prochaine" ou encore mieux "je vais poster mes buts demain, pour la semaine prochaine"?

Je te demande parce que je veux comprendre entièrement quand je peux utiliser une adverbe comme demain. Merci en avance!
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-27, 5:22

My goals (for the week of Jan 26/15 to Feb 1/15):

Teach Yourself Latin American Spanish
    Chapter 1:
  • Frases y expresiones importantes (pp. 14 - 15)
  • Notas gramaticales (pp. 15 - 19)
  • Actividades y Notas explicativas (pp. 20 - 23)

Thamizh Paadanool
    Introduction:
  • Section 4 - Time, Days of the Week, Colors (pp. 10 - 11)
  • Lesson 1:
  • Section 1 - Pronouns, Simple Sentences (pp. 1 - 2)

For Tamil the pronouns will be review. But the days of the week and colors will be new for me, so I will try and create exercises for myself to do - both written and spoken exercises. I am also going to review time because while I seemed to remember numbers, I didn't remember how to create time. Specifically, I didn't remember the word for minute and the suffix rules involved when writing time.

Because of this, even though I'm only going to do 4 pages of Tamil, I think it might be equivalent to all that I'm doing for Spanish. If not, and after those 4 pages I think I can handle more, I will try Lesson 1, Section 2.
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby Dormouse559 » 2015-01-27, 16:55

dEhiN wrote:Merci! Mais pourquoi les verbes accomplir ou atteindre, et pas finir? On n'utilise pas finir avec les choses comme les buts?
Exact, "finir" s'utilise avec les mots qui expriment une duration, comme "travail", "course", même "devoirs". Mais "but", ça ressemble plus à un point, une destination qu'on atteint.

dEhiN wrote:Alors, je dois écrire "je vais poster mes buts pour la semaine prochaine demain" ou "demain je vais poster mes buts pour la semaine prochaine"? Dans ce cas, peut-il constituer un syntagme "je vais poster mes buts"? Par exemple, puis-je ajouter demain comme ça "je vais poster mes buts demain pour la semaine prochaine" ou encore mieux "je vais poster mes buts demain, pour la semaine prochaine"?
Ta phrase proposée est correcte, mais l'emphase est un peu changée. Après "mes buts", "pour la semaine prochaine" paraissait être adjectival; placer "demain" entre les deux indique que "pour la semaine prochaine" est adverbial et modifie le syntagme entier.

dEhiN wrote:Je te demande pose la question parce que je veux entièrement comprendre entièrement quand je peux utiliser un adverbe comme demain. Merci en d'avance!
Je comprends complètement. :)
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-02-04, 4:53

Dormouse559 wrote:Exact, "finir" s'utilise avec les mots qui expriment une duration, comme "travail", "course", même "devoirs". Mais "but", ça ressemble plus à un point, une destination qu'on atteint.

D'accord!

Dormouse559 wrote:Ta phrase proposée est correcte, mais l'emphase est un peu changée. Après "mes buts", "pour la semaine prochaine" paraissait être adjectival; placer "demain" entre les deux indique que "pour la semaine prochaine" est adverbial et modifie le syntagme entier.

Interéssant! Je comprends l'emphase; je suppose qu'il est le même en anglais aussi.

Dormouse559 wrote:
dEhiN wrote:...parce que je veux entièrement comprendre entièrement
Je comprends complètement. :)

Do words like entièrement and complètement always come after the main (or conjugated) verb?
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby dEhiN » 2015-02-04, 5:16

Update time!

My goals (for the week of Jan 26/15 to Feb 1/15):

Teach Yourself Latin American Spanish
    Chapter 1:
  • Frases y expresiones importantes (pp. 14 - 15)
  • Notas gramaticales (pp. 15 - 19)
  • Actividades y Notas explicativas (pp. 20 - 23)

I did all that I wanted to in Spanish but got nothing done in Tamil. I'm not too worried though because I had a good reason - most of the weekend was spent with some new Japanese friends I made. Thus I got to practice a lot of Japanese: getting quicker at reading Hiragana; learning more Katakana; learning a few more Kanji; getting more comfortable with the few phrases I know in Japanese; learning some more phrases; learning some verbs and how to conjugate them for politeness and tense (present and past); getting comfortable with the new phrases and words I learned. Overall it was just the jolt I needed to push my Japanese over the next hurdle.

I'm debating about taking a break from my TAC for this week. I might just do some general language learning - so practice whatever I feel like and study whatever comes to me. I still have my Portuguese Meetup tomorrow, so in a way I get some Portuguese practice. But I still want to finish my Tamil goals, or at least the rest of the Introduction. I know that sometimes when I don't start a task, the molehill becomes a mountain and then I never want to go back to it. This is slowly becoming the case with the rest of the Introduction since it teaches quite a few new words.

Well they are quite a few for me. I'm generally able to handle juggling so many languages (partially) because I learn a very little bit of new information at a time for any one language. Whether it's grammar or vocab, I don't load my brain up. When I say a little bit, I mean like maybe one or two new vocab or one grammar concept every few days. This (I think) allows it to digest fully, while at the same time keeping relatively straight the information I have for other languages. And by fully I mean almost achieve a "hear/see once, learn forever" ability. So I'm not sure how my brain will handle 15 or 16 new words. The only way I can think of doing it is to just read the new words like I'm reading a novel (in English), and hope for the best. So if it sticks, it sticks; if not, I'll worry about it whenever I encounter the words again.

The more I think about it, the more I don't want to let go of whatever TAC momentum I have, even if it means pushing things back a week. So for the rest of this week I will just try to do the Introduction for Thamizh Paadanool.

My goal (for the week of Feb 2/15 to Feb 8/15):

Thamizh Paadanool
    Introduction:
  • Section 4 - Time, Days of the Week, Colors (pp. 10 - 11)
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby Dormouse559 » 2015-02-05, 0:25

dEhiN wrote:Do words like entièrement and complètement always come after the main (or conjugated) verb?
Generally speaking, there are three different levels an adverb could fall into. There are adverbs that don't follow the conjugated verb, going at the beginning or end of the sentence or with the adverbial phrases (ex. apparemment, demain). There are adverbs that mostly follow the conjugated verb; only negative adverbs can come between them and the verb (complètement). Finally, there are adverbs that closely follow the conjugated verb; these go before negative adverbs (probablement, certainement). I don't know of a way to determine which adverb is which type other than looking for examples, but someone else might know of a guiding principle.

The first and second types are the most common, and complètement and entièrement belong to the second group.

x Je ne comprends pas ce livre complètement.
Je ne comprends pas complètement ce livre.
x Je ne comprends complètement pas ce livre.
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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-02-05, 1:13

Well, isn't that also true of English, except that they either can't or don't have to occur immediately after the conjugated verb in English? :hmm: (And also they can occur before the conjugated verb in English, which is impossible in French AFAIK). So, for example:

Apparently, he lives/doesn't live in Montana.
He lives/doesn't live in Montana, apparently.
?He lives/doesn't live apparently in Montana.
?He does apparently not live in Montana.

I'll go to the store tomorrow.
Tomorrow, I'll go to the store.
?I'll go tomorrow to the store.

I understand completely.
???Completely I understand.
(and so on. I seem to be too lazy right now to go through all the appropriate examples :para: :lol:).

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Re: TAC 2015 - dEhiN (français, português, español, தமிழ்)

Postby Dormouse559 » 2015-02-05, 6:24

vijayjohn wrote:Well, isn't that also true of English, except that they either can't or don't have to occur immediately after the conjugated verb in English? :hmm:
If you mean that not all English adverbs behave the same, then yes. But as you've observed, they often have more flexibility in what positions they can take.

I (don't) understand this book completely.
I completely understand this book.
I don't completely understand this book.

That kind of variability isn't common in French. The only possible order for the French translation is below:

Je (ne) comprends (pas) complètement ce livre.
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