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TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Japanese/Irish - UniLang

TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Japanese/Irish

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TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Japanese/Irish

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-01-06, 21:02

I have tried and failed to stick with these threads before, but this year I am jumping in nice and early and I'm just focusing on 1 language, so I hope I'll be able to keep this active.

Over the next year, I would really like to push my level of Irish to "Advanced". I'm thinking of setting a concrete goal by arranging to take the TEG (Teastas Eorpach na Gaeilge - European Irish Exam) Meánleibhéal 2 (B2) next year (I won't be ready for it this year), or maybe even the C1 test next January! Actually... no, that's not really realistic, but we'll see how it goes.

My plan for the year is:

Conversation
- Speak with my Irish-speaking friends and family in Irish more
- Have an hour long oral private class every week
- Go to the Irish language pub in the city centre at least once every two weeks

Reading
- Read a full novel in Irish, cover to cover.
- Read articles on Tuairisc.ie regularly

Listening
- Spend 15 mins a day just listening to Irish audio material (radio, video or podcasts) and make an effort to understand it.

Writing
- Write everything on Unilang that's under 200 words in both Irish and English.

Another idea I've been toying with is keeping a vlog in Irish. The reason is that, in college, I always found that when I wrote something in Japanese that I had to read out (we had presentations every week with a Q&A session afterwards), I always remembered the grammar, vocab and phrases much better because I had to rehearse it first, so I'd sort of be trying to replicate that with the vlogs.

Grammar
I find Irish grammar hideously complex, which while interesting, really really hampers my ability to express myself. I am really sick of still making so many grammatical errors and not understanding how the damn language works, so I aim to try to isolate the main parts I am having trouble with and drill the shit out of them until I know those bits better than the rest of the language.

Vocabulary
I find Memrise to be an excellent way to more-or-less effortlessly consistently study vocabulary, so I will be making as much use of it as I can. Tentatively, I would like to be able to cover about 10,000 new words this year through Memrise alone (so about 30 words a day, which should be doable).
Last edited by Ciarán12 on 2015-02-24, 1:51, edited 1 time in total.
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby Koko » 2015-01-06, 22:58

Ciarán12 wrote:Writing
- Write everything on Unilang that's under 200 words in both Irish and English.

That's a good idea. I might give it a try :D . Maybe even put the english in spoilers ;) .

 (it) È una buona idea. Posso trovarlo :D . Forse anche scriverò l'inglese negli spoiler.

Buona fortuna all'irlandese.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-01-06, 23:08

 (it) Grazie mille! :)

 (ga) Go raibh míle maith agat! :)
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-01-06, 23:20

Saim used to do that. Anyway, probably I think also I am going to still your idea. ;)

Saim acostumava fazer isso. De qualquer jeito, penso que provavilmente tembém eu vou roubar a tua ideia. ;)

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-01-06, 23:25

It's not the first time I've tried to post bilingually, but I hope I'll succeed at it this time. Good luck! I'll try to keep it up if you do ;)

Ní hé an chéad uair atáim ag déanamh iarracht foilsiú go dátheangach. Ach tá súil agam go n-éireoidh sé liom an uair seo. Go n-éirí leat! Déanfaidh mé mo dhícheall chun an iarracht a choinneáil má dhéanann tú amhlaidh ;)
Last edited by Ciarán12 on 2015-01-06, 23:33, edited 1 time in total.
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby Koko » 2015-01-06, 23:31

Is it annoying to the other people?

È fastidiosa alle altre persone?
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby kevin » 2015-01-06, 23:37

Koko wrote:
Ciarán12 wrote:Writing
- Write everything on Unilang that's under 200 words in both Irish and English.

That's a good idea. I might give it a try :D . Maybe even put the english in spoilers ;) .

Yes, please. I would actually try to read the Irish sentences (and possibly even watch the vlog), but when it's too easy to read English first, I probably won't. Or if you don't want to use spoilers, maybe just put Irish first at least?

30 new words every single day for a whole year sounds crazy, but somehow I feel that you'll actually do it for a while at least.

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-01-06, 23:38

Koko wrote:Is it annoying to the other people?

È fastidiosa alle altre persone?


We had that discussion before and we all basically agreed that nobody minds.

Rinneamar an comhrá siúd cheana féin agus bhíomar uilg ar aon fhocal nach miste le haon duine é.

kevin wrote:
Koko wrote:
Ciarán12 wrote:Writing
- Write everything on Unilang that's under 200 words in both Irish and English.

That's a good idea. I might give it a try :D . Maybe even put the english in spoilers ;) .

Yes, please. I would actually try to read the Irish sentences (and possibly even watch the vlog), but when it's too easy to read English first, I probably won't. Or if you don't want to use spoilers, maybe just put Irish first at least?


Well, I feel like there might be a limit to how much people "won't mind", and forcing everyone to click on a spoiler or even be confronted with a language they don't understand as the first block of text might be over-stepping that...

Bhuel, sílim gur féidir go bhfuil teorainn ar an méid "nár mhiste" le dhaoine, agus b'é sarú na chríche sin é iallach a chur orthu cliceáil ar na spoilers nó fiú amháin iallach téacs i dteanga iasacht a léamh agus é os cionn an Bhéarla agus iad gan a tuiscint...

kevin wrote:30 new words every single day for a whole year sounds crazy, but somehow I feel that you'll actually do it for a while at least.


'Tis better to try and fail....

B'fhearr iarracht a dhéanamh agus teip ort...
Last edited by Ciarán12 on 2015-01-06, 23:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-07, 18:34

 (en)Good luck!

 (fr)Bonne chance!  (es)Buena suerte!  (pt-br)Boa sorte!

Also, I recently started learning a bit of Welsh, but I've been toying with starting Irish using Duolingo. Have you tried the course? If so, do you know if it's decent enough?

IpseDixit wrote:Saim used to do that. Anyway, probably I think also I am going to stillsteal your idea. ;)

Saim acostumava fazer isso. De qualquer jeito, penso que provavilmenteprovavelmente tembémtambém eu vou roubar a tua ideia. ;)
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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby Koko » 2015-01-07, 22:52

dEhiN wrote:Also, I recently started learning a bit of Welsh, but I've been toying with starting Irish using Duolingo. Have you tried the course? If so, do you know if it's decent enough?

You started a bit of Welsh? How do you find it?

Hai iniziato un po' del gallese? Come ti sembra?
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby kevin » 2015-01-08, 0:29

dEhiN wrote:Also, I recently started learning a bit of Welsh, but I've been toying with starting Irish using Duolingo. Have you tried the course? If so, do you know if it's decent enough?

It's the first Duolingo course for which I actually consider completing my tree. From what I can say, you can still notice that it's in Beta because sometimes it doesn't accept possible variants of a sentence yet, but otherwise the written part seems to be quite nice. They also have lots of grammar explanations in the lessons, though I must admit that I skipped over most of them because I had already read GnaG before. ;)

There's one big problem with the course, though: Don't trust the pronunciation. Pretty much everyone on Duolingo agrees that it's wrong in way too many cases.

And, of course, take all of this with a grain of salt. My Irish might be better than the zero star rating in my profile suggests, but I would still consider myself an beginner.

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-11, 6:20

kevin wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Also, I recently started learning a bit of Welsh, but I've been toying with starting Irish using Duolingo. Have you tried the course? If so, do you know if it's decent enough?

It's the first Duolingo course for which I actually consider completing my tree. From what I can say, you can still notice that it's in Beta because sometimes it doesn't accept possible variants of a sentence yet, but otherwise the written part seems to be quite nice. They also have lots of grammar explanations in the lessons, though I must admit that I skipped over most of them because I had already read GnaG before. ;)

There's one big problem with the course, though: Don't trust the pronunciation. Pretty much everyone on Duolingo agrees that it's wrong in way too many cases.

And, of course, take all of this with a grain of salt. My Irish might be better than the zero star rating in my profile suggests, but I would still consider myself ana beginner.

Danke schön! Good tip on the pronunciation, though that's a shame, since I was considering doing the course mostly for the pronunciation. One thing I think Duo has helped me with in the languages I've done is get used to the sounds of the language in question.

Koko wrote:
dEhiN wrote:Also, I recently started learning a bit of Welsh, but I've been toying with starting Irish using Duolingo. Have you tried the course? If so, do you know if it's decent enough?

You started a bit of Welsh? How do you find it?

Hai iniziato un po' del gallese? Come ti sembra?

It's not too bad. I really haven't done anything in it except go through the pronunciation section (both reading and listening), and the first page of chapter 1. I haven't done anything more partially because of life and my TAC languages, and partially because I feel this need to get attuned to the sounds of a language first before I proceed with learning vocabulary. I think part of it is because when I do learn a word with an incorrect pronunciation, and then down the road learn the proper pronunciation, it seems to take a while to change all the memories/associations in my head with that word and its pronunciation. So I've been listening to a lot of Welsh radio as well as reading Wikipedia for the IPA transcriptions of the alphabet and getting accustomed to the unique sounds - ll, rh.
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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-01-11, 17:39

Koko wrote:Hai iniziato un po' di gallese? Come ti sembra?


Koko wrote: (it) È una buona idea. (Posso) Potrei provarla (idea is feminine) :D . Forse anche scriverò l'inglese negli spoiler.

Buona fortuna con l'irlandese.

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-01-19, 20:22

So, I've been stuck by a thought - I like the feeling of steady, measurable progress that you get when you are at the beginner - lower intermediate stage of learning a language when you are still working your way through a prescribed course book. I find that when you get past the lower intermediate stage (for many languages, at least) there aren't really many dedicated course books and you have to just start winging it on your own. So, I think it would be a good idea for me to actually create a course book for myself, just to give me something to aim for and a way to measure my progress.

I've decided to format the lessons as follows:

Reading Comprehension (I will pull this most likely from news sites, though I might use some more literary sources too)

Vocab (all the vocab I find in the Reading Comprehension text that I don't understand)

Grammar (all the grammar I come across in the Reading Comprehension text that I don't understand)

Exercises (I will have to think more about how to structure this when I have the material for the first three sections, I may skim some of my many textbooks to get ideas for formats I could easily apply to any text I happen to be using)

Dialogue (I plan on using some English dialogues and translating them as idiomatically as possible into Irish with the help of my native tutor)

I will have a Vocab, Grammar and Exercises section for the material in the Dialogue as well.

The above would constitute one "lesson" or "chapter" in the textbook and I can set myself an (arbitrary) goal of, say 20 lessons.

In a way, this is just a diary of my learning, but I like the format and it could serve as good revision material (and I could of course make it available to anyone else who might want to use it).
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby kevin » 2015-01-19, 20:43

Sounds like an interesting idea if you like to use course books, even though I personally never felt the need of having a course book at that level. Well, there might be a causal connection with the fact that I don't have many languages on that level... (For English, it's good enough to just use the language when I have to, and for Dutch, reading De Hobbit was certainly more fun that doing a course book.)

Anyway, I would be interested to see what your "course book" looks like after a while, though I'm afraid I won't be able to make much use of it yet. First I need to complete your Memrise course (are you still working on that, by the way?). And before that, I want to complete my Duolingo tree. And then, I still have a book to read. Hm... I guess that would be almost enough to start a TAC thread of my own. ;)

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-01-19, 21:30

kevin wrote:Sounds like an interesting idea if you like to use course books, even though I personally never felt the need of having a course book at that level. Well, there might be a causal connection with the fact that I don't have many languages on that level... (For English, it's good enough to just use the language when I have to, and for Dutch, reading De Hobbit was certainly more fun that doing a course book.)


I think in the case of English, there is no need as there is so much you can do with it (and I'm sure you reached that level a long time ago) that you can just immerse yourself in English media. With Dutch, I think for a German speaker it is easy enough that you probably never really experienced "intermediate" level in the sense I mean, and the challenges are different. I mean, how long did it take you to get to the point where you could read "De Hobbit" at a maintainable pace? Because I have "An Hobad", and I still haven't gotten past the first few pages for the very reason that I can't yet read it fast enough to hold my interest.

kevin wrote:Anyway, I would be interested to see what your "course book" looks like after a while, though I'm afraid I won't be able to make much use of it yet.


I'll print you an exclusive first edition signed by me :lol:

kevin wrote:First I need to complete your Memrise course (are you still working on that, by the way?).


No, but that's definitely a project I intend to get back to. Although, they have recently changed the layout of the app (which is the only thing I use), and I'm not sure if the course I was making would really be compatible with that now (I think the character restriction got worse).

kevin wrote:And before that, I want to complete my Duolingo tree. And then, I still have a book to read. Hm... I guess that would be almost enough to start a TAC thread of my own. ;)


I definitely think you should :wink: .

Also, on an unrelated note, I may have to brush up on my basic German as I'm going to Berlin in a week and apparently the guy I have to get the keys to apartment from doesn't speak English (or so I'm told), so I will at least have to get my basic meaning across to him in German. Should be fun!
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-01-19, 22:02

At one point when I was growing up, I was so frustrated by the utter lack of materials for learning Malayalam (and the crappiness of the few that did exist) that I tried to start writing Teach Yourself Malayalam all by myself. Unfortunately, my Malayalam at that time was so crappy that one of the mistakes towards the very beginning of the first chapter became a family in-joke for years to come, and I never got past that chapter. :lol:

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-01-19, 22:32

vijayjohn wrote:At one point when I was growing up, I was so frustrated by the utter lack of materials for learning Malayalam (and the crappiness of the few that did exist) that I tried to start writing Teach Yourself Malayalam all by myself. Unfortunately, my Malayalam at that time was so crappy that one of the mistakes towards the very beginning of the first chapter became a family in-joke for years to come, and I never got past that chapter. :lol:


:lol:

Well, I'm not arrogant enough to think I won't make a ton of mistakes, but I will get everything checked by a native before I start committing anything to memory.
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby kevin » 2015-01-19, 22:59

Ciarán12 wrote:I think in the case of English, there is no need as there is so much you can do with it (and I'm sure you reached that level a long time ago) that you can just immerse yourself in English media.

Yes, it would be ridiculous to say that I'm anywhere near that level now. Even though... well, you know what I was going to say. :D I must have gone through that level, though, and I can't remember how I actually did it. I suspect it was really mostly immersion.

With Dutch, I think for a German speaker it is easy enough that you probably never really experienced "intermediate" level in the sense I mean, and the challenges are different. I mean, how long did it take you to get to the point where you could read "De Hobbit" at a maintainable pace? Because I have "An Hobad", and I still haven't gotten past the first few pages for the very reason that I can't yet read it fast enough to hold my interest.

Everyone says that Irish can't be learned. Who knows, they might be right. ;)

And yes, Dutch is different because guessing gives me a relatively large passive vocabulary. This is probably the only reason why just reading a lot worked so well. So yes, I can't remember being at that intermediate level for any language, so all my reasoning is invalid. I still think that I prefer reading to course books - I mean, even for Irish, I don't have a course book, but just one or two (supposedly) easy books to read.

I'll print you an exclusive first edition signed by me :lol:

Yay! :lol:

I don't dare to ask about the estimated delivery date, but be sure that I won't forget about your promise!

No, but that's definitely a project I intend to get back to. Although, they have recently changed the layout of the app (which is the only thing I use), and I'm not sure if the course I was making would really be compatible with that now (I think the character restriction got worse).

Hmm... I agree that the web version isn't as nice as the (old) mobile one. I haven't seen the new one yet. Perhaps I should put something together on some rainy weekend that works like I want it (which unfortunately requires that I know what I want, so it might not happen).

I definitely think you should :wink: .

I would have to decide on the languages to put in a TAC thread. Maybe better not.

Also, on an unrelated note, I may have to brush up on my basic German as I'm going to Berlin in a week and apparently the guy I have to get the keys to apartment from doesn't speak English (or so I'm told), so I will at least have to get my basic meaning across to him in German. Should be fun!

Let me know if I can do anything to help you. (Oh, by the way, quite a bit of Swabian can be heard in Berlin, too - much to the dismay of the natives. ;) )

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Re: TAC 2015 - Ciarán12 - Irish

Postby dEhiN » 2015-01-20, 7:27

kevin wrote:I would have to decide on the languages to put in a TAC thread. Maybe better not.

Or you could just do one language - ie, Irish!

Let me know if I can do anything to help you. (Oh, by the way, quite a bit of Swabian can be heard in Berlin, too - much to the dismay of the natives. ;) )

What's Swabian?
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