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Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - UniLang

Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin)

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Massimiliano B
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Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin)

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-10-28, 23:59

In this thread I will post my notes and logs about Ojibwe. I hope to be able to write a text at the end of the NAILC, but it'll be hard.

A few days ago I've found this great book:

http://odeamik.webfactional.com/public/ ... n-2010.pdf EDIT: broken link :(
Last edited by Massimiliano B on 2013-03-29, 21:39, edited 3 times in total.
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe - NAILC 2012

Postby księżycowy » 2012-10-29, 11:39

Cool! I'll be sure to follow this thread!

And that pdf file is quite excellent, it has a great Bibliography in the back!

Though you're making me want to switch to Cree. :P
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe - NAILC 2012

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-10-29, 16:35

księżycowy wrote: Though you're making me want to switch to Cree. :P



Do Lushootseed! I want to learn that language too!! :)



As for Ojibwe, it distinguishes between animate and inanimate nouns. Yesterday I studied the subject pronouns and the paradigm of the present tense of the intransitive verbs.
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe - NAILC 2012

Postby księżycowy » 2012-10-29, 18:10

Massimiliano B wrote:Do Lushootseed! I want to learn that language too!! :)

I'm sticking with Lushootseed, don't worry. :wink:
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - NAILC 2012

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-10-31, 1:12

That's good :ohwell:. I like it!



I love the Ojibwe personal pronouns :)

niin = I
giin = you
wiin = she/he/it
niinawind = we (exclusive)
giinawind = we (inclusive)
giinawaa = you all
wiinawaa = they

The letter g is always hard like in "go".

I take these information from here: http://weshki.atwebpages.com/gram_notes.html
Last edited by Massimiliano B on 2012-11-04, 1:08, edited 1 time in total.
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - NAILC 2012

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-11-01, 21:54

Today I've studied the plural of nouns.

Animate nouns form the plural with -g, while inanimate nouns form it with -n. It's simple :).
What is harder is that before the plural mark a vowel or two vowels are added (-a-, -oo-, or -ii-). At the moment I don't know the rule for that .


Animate nouns (plural ending -g):

inini (man) - ininiwag (men). The letter -w- precedes the plural ending -(vowel)g if the word ends in an vowel;

akik (kettle) - akikoog (kettles).


Inanimate nouns (plural ending -n)

ziibi (river) - ziibiwan (rivers);

ishkode (fire) - ishkoden (fires).
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - NAILC 2012

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-11-04, 1:32

I've studied the possessive adjectives:

ni/nin+noun = my
gi+noun = your
o+noun = her/his
ni/nin+noun+naan = our ( exclusive)
gi+noun+naan = our (inclusive)
gi+noun+waa = your (plural)
o+noun+waa = their


They clearly have a relation with the personal pronouns:

niin = I
giin = you
wiin = she/he/it
niinawind = we (exclusive)
giinawind = we (inclusive)
giinawaa = you all
wiinawaa = they


These words appear always with possessive adjective:
father, mother, son, daughter, grandfather, grandmother, elder brother.


I take these information from here: http://weshki.atwebpages.com/gram_notes.html
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

https://m.facebook.com/massimiliano.bav ... r&refid=48

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - NAILC 2012

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-11-06, 23:25

Ojibwe vowel system distinguishes between short and long vowels. The vowel 'e' is always long.

Short: i a o
Long: ii e aa oo


Consonantal system:

b,d, j, g, p, t, ch, k, ' (glottal stop, occurring only between vowels), z, zh [ʒ], s [s], sh, m, n, y, w.
The letters 'y' and 'w' are semivowels, like the sound represented by the letters 'y' in 'yell' and 'w' in 'wall'.


The sounds represented by the letters p, t, ch, k, s, sh are held longer - as a double consonant - than their correspondent voiced consonant b, d, j, g, z, zh.

Long vowels (e, ii, oo, aa) can be nasalized. The nasalization is indicated with a -nh:
abinoojiinh (child): the long vowel 'ii' is nasalized.
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - NAILC 2012

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-11-10, 1:24

Today I 've studied the noun here: http://weshki.atwebpages.com/gram_notes.html#nouns. The nominal system is very easy in Anishinaabemowin. There's a singular and a plural, a possessive paradigm, a general locative suffix in -ng, a diminutive ending in -ns which indicates a small size of an object, a pejorative suffix in -sh indicating that something is "damn" or useless, a vocative in -dog (used when you call someone), a preterit in -g which indicates that the noun is not alive at the moment or is damaged or deteriorated.

I think the locative is interesting, because it doesn't distinguish between "in", "at", "to", or "from". Context specifies the particular sense intended.

I think the general structure of locative in Anishinaabemowin is the following:
I go city-LOCATIVE
I come city-LOCATIVE
I am city-LOCATIVE
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - NAILC 2012

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-11-11, 18:49

In Ojibwe the verb is very complex. The verbs are subdivided in four classes: VAI, VII, VTA, VTI.

Class 1) VAI. This acronym comes from Verb Animate Intransitive. It means that the subject is an animate noun and that the verb is intransitive. Examples: "the man drinks". "Man" in Ojibwe is inini and it is animate, while minikwe means "drinks" (third singular). Thus, inini minikwe means "the/a man drinks" (there is no article in Ojibwe). The word order is free, so you can say also minikwe inini.

There are four types of VAI verbs: a. vowel stem, b. consonant stem, c. 'o' and 'i' stems, d. 'am' stem. Here is the complete conjugation of a VAI verb with the vowel stem:

I = niminikwe
You = giminikwe
He = minikwe
He (obv.) = minikwewan
One (X) = minikwem
We (excl.) = niminikwemin
We (incl.) = giminikwemin
You (pl.) = giminikwem
They = minikwewag

The stem is minikwe (the stem is the third person singular). It ends in -e, so it is a vowel stem.

The abbreviation "Obv." means "obviative". This form is used when we talk about a "second third person". For example, if I'm talking about John, then he is the first "third person". Thus I will say John minikwe (John drinks). But if I introduce another argument - for example another person (Robert) - I have to use the obviative form. So, if I want to say that also "Robert drinks", I cannot say Robert minikwe, but Robert minikwem. I thinks this is a great resort of this language!

The "One (X)" form is used when the subject is indetermined, like the English "one" or "people", French "on", German "man": ex. "one does".
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - NAILC 2012

Postby księżycowy » 2012-11-11, 22:20

Massimiliano B wrote:In Ojibwe the verb is very complex. The verbs are subdivided in four classes: VAI, VII, VTA, VTI.

Sounds about right for an Algonquian language.
That's quite similar to the verb system in Arapaho. Though there are a few more forms I see in Ojibwe then in Arapaho. If memory serves me correctly, Arapaho doesn't differentiate between inclusive and exclusive 1st person plural. Nor have I encountered a "one (x)" form.

The abbreviation "Obv." means "obviative". This form is used when we talk about a "second third person".

That's usually called the "4th person" in most Algonquian languages, if I remember correctly.
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - NAILC 2012

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-11-18, 23:39

księżycowy wrote:That's usually called the "4th person" in most Algonquian languages, if I remember correctly.

Yes indeed.


I'm now studying the following sentences (taken from here: http://weshki.atwebpages.com/oj_textbook_8.html):

Wegonen owe? = "What is this?". Wegonen means "what" and is used only for inanimate objects. Owe means "this" and it is used with inanimate nouns. I note that the verb "to be" doesn't exist in Ojibwe. The sentence structure is: "What-INANIMATE this-INANIMATE?"
Ishgode owe = "This is fire". Ishgode = fire (inanimate). It has no plural form. The structure of the sentence is: Fire-INANIMATE this-INANIMATE.

Wegonen iwe? = "What is that?". Iwe means "that" - used only with inanimate nouns. Literally the meaning is: What-INANIMATE that-INANIMATE?
Jiimaan iwe = "That is a boat". Jiimaan = boat. Plural: jiimaanan (it is inanimate because it ends with -n). Structure: Boat-INANIMATE that-INANIMATE.

Wegonen iwedi? = "What is that over there?". Iwedi means "that over there". It is used with inanimate nouns. Literally: What-INANIM. that-over-there-INANIM.?
Desabiwin iwedi = "That is a chair over there". Desabiwin =chair. Desabiwinan =chairs. Chair-INANIM that-over-there-INANIM.

Today my short study has concluded :)
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - NAILC 2012

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-11-27, 23:41

Todau I've studied the three first lessons of Ojibwe lessons for beginners (http://weshki.atwebpages.com/lessons.html). The first lesson is about greetings, the second about counting, and the third about weather:

http://weshki.atwebpages.com/oj_textbook_1.html

http://weshki.atwebpages.com/oj_textbook_2.html

http://weshki.atwebpages.com/oj_textbook_3.html.

All weather words in Ojibwe are verbs. In Ojibwe you don't say "it is sunny" or "it is cold", but *it suns (zaagaate) and *it colds (gisinaa).

Tomorrow I'm going to study lesson four.
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - NAILC 2012

Postby Bijlee » 2012-12-01, 0:26

Ojibwe looks really pretty. The grammar looks cool too!

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - NAILC 2012

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-12-03, 16:39

Ojibwe is really a pretty language. It has a relatively simple phonology and a very rich grammar.



A short update (taken from here: http://weshki.atwebpages.com/oj_textbook_4.html):

Mino-giizhigad - It is a good day. (Mino = good)
Wii-mino-giizhigad - It is going to be a good day. (Wii is a future marker, with meaning of 'wish' or 'want'. It is used when the future is not certain. It is usually translated as "want to do something", "going to do something", or "going to happen".
Gii-mino-giizhigad bijiinaago - It was a good day yesterday. (Gii is the past tense marker. bijiinaago means "yesterday".
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - NAILC 2012

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-12-07, 0:13

Today I will study lesson four again and lesson five from here: http://weshki.atwebpages.com/lessons.html.

There are two way of forming the future tense in Ojibwe, one by adding the prefix wii, and another by adding the prefix da. I said in a previous post that wii is used when the future is uncertain. The prefix da, on the other hand, is used when the future is certain. So, I can turn the sentence gimiwan (it is raining) into a sentence which refers to a future event by adding wii or da. Wii is usually used with weather verbs, as in wii-gimiwan waabang - "it is going to rain tomorrow" - but you can use also the prefix da, as in da-gimiwan waabang - "it will (definitely) rain tomorrow", if you are sure that it will rain (see here: http://weshki.atwebpages.com/oj_textbook_4.html).



To make a yes/no question, put na after the first word:

Gimiwan na? Is it raining?


For denying a verb you have to place the word gaawiin ("no") before a verb, and add -sinoon or -zinoon at the end of a verb. -sinon is added to a verb einding in a vowel, and -ziinon to a verb ending in a consonant. Example:

gaawin gimiwanzinoon - it's not raining

(From here: http://weshki.atwebpages.com/oj_textbook_5.html):
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin) - NAILC 2012

Postby Massimiliano B » 2012-12-09, 23:00

The Ojibwe imperative mood is simple. To give a command to one person, add -n at the end of a verb. To give command to more that one person, add -g. Examples:

Basic form: biindige (she/he enters). The basic form of a verb is the third person singular.

biindigen = enter! (you)

biindigeg = enter! (you all)



The word ando means "go to do something". It can be added before an imperative:

ando-abin = Go sit! (you) (abi = she/he sits)
Ando-abig = Go sit! (you all)

(Taken from here: http://weshki.atwebpages.com/oj_textbook_6.html)

:)
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin)

Postby Struthiomimus » 2013-03-14, 2:22

Bijlee wrote:Ojibwe looks really pretty. The grammar looks cool too!


I really like Ojibwe too. Are you still working on it Massi?
 (wbp)  (qu)  (eo)  (wo)  (rom)  (csb)  (lkt)

"Beshav me akana kai le chirikle chi gilaban." kaj, "Beidh ceol, caint agus craic againn."

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin)

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-03-17, 0:13

Now I'm not working on it. I have no time :( . I hope I will post here something in the future!
Non è tempo di lutti / né di follie. / Questo è tempo di Dio. / Che aspettiamo? / Quale segno? / Quale miracolo? /…. (Elena Bono, Morte di Adamo)

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Re: Massimiliano - Ojibwe (Anishinaabemowin)

Postby johnklepac » 2013-03-20, 20:27

Massimiliano B wrote:Now I'm not working on it. I have no time :( . I hope I will post here something in the future!

Do it!

I've decided that, as long as I'm working somewhat steadily on Czech and Japanese at all times, I'll indulge any other wanderlusts pretty much at will.


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