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ceid donn - Diné Bizaad - UniLang

ceid donn - Diné Bizaad

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ceid donn
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ceid donn - Diné Bizaad

Postby ceid donn » 2012-11-04, 3:18

Yá'át'ééh. This will be my thread for studying Diné Bizaad for the 2012 NAILC and hopefully beyond :D

I will be using Goossen's Diné Bizaad (I have German translation because copies of the English one have gotten insanely overpriced). I have also recently shelled out for a copy of the book & CD Breakthrough Navajo by Alan Wilson.

I recently found some digitalized Navajo readers on the New Mexico's Digital Collections site, via @NavajoNow on Twitter: http://econtent.unm.edu/cdm4/results.ph ... 1=language A couple of those I can use at my level.

I'll be back shortly with the alphabet--I have to switch browsers because Foxfire does not support the Navajo keyboard and Chrome is crashing on me. Need to reboot. Ugh.
Last edited by ceid donn on 2013-02-04, 17:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad - NAILC 2012

Postby księżycowy » 2012-11-04, 10:43

Wow, that's a great find! I'll add it to the resource list.

And also, the textbook Diné Bizaad by Goossen is still very much in print and at a reasonable price at the printers website: http://www.salinabookshelf.com/Textbooks.html
I actually just updated the link for that and the other textbook they sell, Diné Bizaad Bínáhoo'aah, in the resources thread. (I also just decided to pick up a copy of that other textbook I just mentioned. Hope it lives up to the hype.)

Also, you maybe disappointed with Breakthrough Navajo after going through a bit of Goossen. Just a heads up.
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad - NAILC 2012

Postby ceid donn » 2012-11-04, 20:05

księżycowy wrote:And also, the textbook Diné Bizaad by Goossen is still very much in print and at a reasonable price at the printers website: http://www.salinabookshelf.com/Textbooks.html
I actually just updated the link for that and the other textbook they sell, Diné Bizaad Bínáhoo'aah, in the resources thread. (I also just decided to pick up a copy of that other textbook I just mentioned. Hope it lives up to the hype.)


:evil:

How did I miss that when I was looking for a copy? When I got mine the cheapest copy of the English verison of Diné Bizaad I could find was for $100 w/o the CDs. I couldn't find ANY with the CDs. Now Amazon has sellers asking as much as $500 for a copy.

Let me know how that other book is. It looks good and I like that there's a workbook. I wanted to the a copy of The Navajo Verb but it seemed beyond my level right now.

Also, you maybe disappointed with Breakthrough Navajo after going through a bit of Goossen. Just a heads up.


:evil:

I saw several recommendations for this and was hoping it'd been something that could help me cover the basics a little faster than Diné Bizaad. I paid a pretty penny for it and I don't know if I'll be able to return it.

Technical issue: Chrome supports the Navajo keyboard but I cannot get vowels with both the hook and the tone accent mark to appear in the Unilang forms. Does anyone know why?

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad - NAILC 2012

Postby księżycowy » 2012-11-04, 21:14

Yeah, sometimes the prices on Amazon (and elsewhere for that matter) are ridiculous.

ceid donn wrote:
Let me know how that other book is. It looks good and I like that there's a workbook. I wanted to the a copy of The Navajo Verb but it seemed beyond my level right now.

Sure will. :)
I almost picked up a copy of the Verb book myself, but I'm not sure how far I want to take Navajo at this point. So it might not be worth it.


I saw several recommendations for this and was hoping it'd been something that could help me cover the basics a little faster than Diné Bizaad. I paid a pretty penny for it and I don't know if I'll be able to return it.

I meant that more in the way of grammar. There is very little in the way of breaking down the verbs or getting detailed grammar. It is a great way to cover the basics though. I highly recommend the book as a starting point. Didn't mean to sound otherwise. :wink:

Technical issue: Chrome supports the Navajo keyboard but I cannot get vowels with both the hook and the tone accent mark to appear in the Unilang forms. Does anyone know why?

What keyboard are you using?
I use the one from Languagegeek, and it works fine in Firefox. I'm not sure about other browsers, as I tend to just use Firefox.
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad - NAILC 2012

Postby ceid donn » 2012-11-04, 21:17

Well, carrying on...

The Sounds of Diné Bizaad

I. Vowels:

Diné Bizaad uses four basic vowels

a
e
i
o

These four vowels can be short, long, nasalized short and nasalized long.

Long vowels are written as doubled. The only vowel that changes its phonetic sound when it is lengthen is i.

Nasalized vowels have a hook underneath.

a /ɑ/
e /e/
i /ɪ/
o /o/
aa /ɑː/
ee /eː/
ii /iː/
oo /oː/
ą /ɑ̃/
ę /ẽ/
į /ĩ/
ǫ /õ/
ąą /ɑ̃ː/
ęę /ẽː/
įį /ĩː/
ǫǫ /õː/

II. Tone

Navajo has four tones: high, low, rising and falling.

The high tone is marked with the acute accent: á, éé
The rising tone is marked by an unaccented vowel followed by an accented one: aaí
The falling tone is marked by an accented vowel followed by an unaccented one: áa
The low tone is not marked at all: a, ee

N.B. You can have tone marks with nasalized vowels (with the hooks: ą, ęę, etc.). At present I cannot type examples of these due to the compatibility issue with Unilang’s post & response fields for which I am seeking presently a fix.

III. Diphthongs

Navajo uses several diphthongs. Diphthongs will either be marked as high tone vowels, or unmarked as low tone vowels. The most common ones listed in my textbook are:

ai /ɑi/, like "hi"
ei /ei/, like "hey"
ao /ɑʊ/, like "auto"
oi /wi/, like French "oui"

Next up: Consonants. :D
Last edited by ceid donn on 2012-11-06, 5:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad - NAILC 2012

Postby ceid donn » 2012-11-04, 21:21

księżycowy wrote:
Technical issue: Chrome supports the Navajo keyboard but I cannot get vowels with both the hook and the tone accent mark to appear in the Unilang forms. Does anyone know why?

What keyboard are you using?
I use the one from Languagegeek, and it works fine in Firefox. I'm not sure about other browsers, as I tend to just use Firefox.



I'm using that one too. I can't get it to work in Firefox at all. Used to, but not since the recent update.

With Chrome I can type all the characters just fine into the address bar and into the search field of any search engine I pull up, so I know Chrome supports it. But I cannot get the vowels with both hooks and tone accents to appear when typing into any field on Unilang. Aggravating.

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad - NAILC 2012

Postby księżycowy » 2012-11-04, 23:54

Huh, I guess I didn’t have the Navajo keyboard installed. Guess that was the old laptop.
At any rate, I just tried some typing myself and something does seem off with it in Firefox. :hmm:

Sorry, don’t want to tie your thread up with this stuff. :oops:
I’ll let you get back to your notes.
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad - NAILC 2012

Postby ceid donn » 2012-11-05, 5:13

No problem. I posted a question about in the Development forum. Maybe they can fix it although I doubt they’ll see it as a priority. :?

Anyway, continuing on...


IV. Consonants:

' (glottal spot) /ʔ/
b /p/
ch /tʃʰ/
ch' /tʃ'/
d /t/
dl /tl/
dz /ts/
g /k/
gh /ɣ/
h /h/
h (final) /x/
hw /xʷ/
j /tʃ/
k /kx/
k' /k'/
kw /kxʷ/
l /l/
ł /ɬ/
m /m/
n /n/
s /s/
sh /ʃ/
t /tx/
t’ /t'/
/tɬʰ/
tł’ /tɬ'/
ts /tsʰ/
ts’ /ts'/
w /w/
y /j/
z /z/
zh /ʒ/

Whew! (Sources: Omniglot.com & Wikipedia)

V. Notes About Consonants:

The glottal spot is very common in Navajo. In addition to the consonant combinations listed above, it can also follow vowels.

The n can be marked with the high tone accent: ń

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad - NAILC 2012

Postby handsomenavajo01 » 2012-11-15, 1:38

Yá’át’ééh, ’aoo’.
’Ayóo shaa dzólní, ’aoo’, t’áá íídą́ą́’ shił bééhózin éí lá biniinaa ’at’ééké chxǫǫ́h dashinízin. T’óó ’ádíshní! ;)

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad - NAILC 2012

Postby ceid donn » 2012-11-25, 1:55

OK, I haven't' abandoned this. I've just been too busy for the internet (Twitter via my Kindle Fire doesn't count! :P ).

I got Breakthrough Navajo and have read up through Chapter 7. Hopefully I'll get some stuff typed up so i can post it here soon. :D

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad - NAILC 2012

Postby ceid donn » 2012-11-30, 18:46

I regret to say I'm going to have to put Navajo on hold and drop out of the NAILC this year. I've been having some less than friendly experiences outside of Unilang relating to the study of Navajo and contemporary Native American culture that has made it sadly unenjoyable for me. So clearly this is not the time for me to be studying it and I think instead of being beaten down by other people's anger and issues, I'll just focus on other languages for now.

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad - NAILC 2012

Postby Bijlee » 2012-12-01, 0:23

ceid donn wrote:I regret to say I'm going to have to put Navajo on hold and drop out of the NAILC this year. I've been having some less than friendly experiences outside of Unilang relating to the study of Navajo and contemporary Native American culture that has made it sadly unenjoyable for me. So clearly this is not the time for me to be studying it and I think instead of being beaten down by other people's anger and issues, I'll just focus on other languages for now.


What happened, if you don't mind me asking? (you can just ignore this if you do mind)

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad - NAILC 2012

Postby ceid donn » 2013-02-04, 17:26

A belated reply: it's kind of a past issue now, but I know from studying Gaelic and Breton that with any minority or otherwise oppressed language/culture you have to deal with politics as well as some difficult people who want to question your motivations. But as I said, it's a past issue and no resentments. I am quite sympathetic to anyone, especially Native Americans, who want to be protective of their cultures.

But that aside, not only did I recently acquired something that suddenly made learning Breton a whole lot simpler for me, I'm feeling a bit bored with French right now, so I think I'll dabble a little with Navajo again in the coming months while I just tread water with French.

I'll be using Breakthrough Navajo for my main text, as I enjoy that book, and maybe Diné Bizaad as I go along.

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad

Postby ceid donn » 2013-02-05, 20:08

Breakthrough Navajo is nicely organization into segments of chapters that have a review at the end. I'm re-doing the first segment since it's been a awhile since I've looked at any Navajo. The first segment doesn't have a lot of grammar, but I'll write out some notes here for the grammar covered in Chapters 3 (and then for Chapter 4 later) before I do the review. I hope I can remember the Navajo keyboard! :lol:

******

Chapter 3:

1) Asking questions: one device used to ask questions is the the prefix Da’. The prefix will be typically paired with the suffix -sh or -ísh attached to a noun, adverb or verb in the following question.

Da’ nichidíísh hólǫ́? - Do you have a car? (Here, Da’ begins the sentence and the suffix -ísh is added to the noun chidí.)

You can use the suffix -sh or -ísh alone to indicate a question too:

Diné bizaadísh bóhooł’aah? - Are you learning Navajo? (Here, only -ísh is added to the noun diné bizaad.)

Daats’í can also be used to form a question. It implies a degree of uncertainty:

Nichidí hólǫ́ daasts’í? - Do you have a car?


2) Nił is used to idiomatically express liking, and means "with you" or "for you".

Nił yá’át’ééh means idiomatically "you like it" but more literally means "It is good with you".

Shił is the first person single form of this. Shił yá’át’ééh means "I like it".


3) Enclitics:

-di means at a place:

na’nízhoozhídi - at Gallup

-góó indicates direction towards a place:

kingóó - toward the store


4) ííníłta’ and ííníshta’ are in the continuative imperfective mode and indicates action that is still going on and is incomplete. In Navajo, it is a simple present tense.

ííníłta’ - you go to school
ííníshta’ - I go to school


5) ła’ is used to make generalized statements. It means "some" in translation.

chidí bitoo’ ła’ nisin - I want some gasoline
áshį́į́h la’ nisin - I want some apples.

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad

Postby ceid donn » 2013-02-13, 7:44

Just a dialogue composed of things from Lessons 1-4 (with a couple things from later chapters), for practice:

Yá’át’ééh. Haash yinílyé? > Hello, what is your name?

Cade yinishyé. > My name is Cade.

Haashyit’éego kééh’ót’į́? > How are you doing?

Yá’átéehgo kééhasht’į́. Nishą’? > I'm doing fine. And you?

Yá’átéehgo. Diné bizaad bóhooł’aah daasts’í? > Fine. Are you learning Navajo?

Aoo’, diné bizaad bóhoosh’aah. > Yes, I am learning Navajo.

Nił yá’át’ééh daats’í? > Do you like it?

Aoo’, shił yá’át’ééh. > Yes, I like it.

Nił nantł’a daats’í? > Is it difficult for you?

Aoo’, éí shił nantł’a łeh. > Yes, it is usually difficult for me.

Háadish ííníłta’? > Where do you go to school?

Doo ííníshta’ da. Naashnish. > I don't go to school. I am working.

Háadish nanílnish? > Where do you work?

Ólta’di naashnish. Bá’ólta’í nishłį́. Nishą’? > I work at the school. I am a teacher. And you?

Chidí ánál’ į́įdi naashnish. Naasichgóósh díníyá? > I work at the garage. Are you going to work?

Dooda, díí įį́ doo naashnish da.*** Díí įį́ naasichgóósh díníyá? > No, I don't work today. Are you going to work today?

Aoo’, t’óó hodíína’go. Háágóósh díníyá? > Yes, soon. Where are you going?

Shaghangóó déyá. > I'm going home.

Nízaad́ish? > Is it far?

Dooda, do ńizaad da. > No, it's not far.

Hágoshį́į́. > Ok, bye.

Lá’aa, hágoshį́į. > Ok, bye.

***I wasn't sure if díí įį́ goes inside doo...da or not.


I'll have to check for typos later as i'm pretty tired right now, but if anyone spots one in the meantime, let me know.

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad

Postby handsomenavajo01 » 2013-05-14, 3:26

ceid donn wrote:Just a dialogue composed of things from Lessons 1-4 (with a couple things from later chapters), for practice:

Yá’át’ééh. Haash yinílyé? > Hello, what is your name?

Cade yinishyé. > My name is Cade.

Haashyit’éego kééh’ót’į́? > How are you doing?

Yá’átéehgo kééhasht’į́. Nishą’? > I'm doing fine. And you?

Yá’átéehgo. Diné bizaad bóhooł’aah daasts’í? > Fine. Are you learning Navajo?

Aoo’, diné bizaad bóhoosh’aah. > Yes, I am learning Navajo.

Nił yá’át’ééh daats’í? > Do you like it?

Aoo’, shił yá’át’ééh. > Yes, I like it.

Nił nantł’a daats’í? > Is it difficult for you?

Aoo’, éí shił nantł’a łeh. > Yes, it is usually difficult for me.

Háadish ííníłta’? > Where do you go to school?

Doo ííníshta’ da. Naashnish. > I don't go to school. I am working.

Háadish nanílnish? > Where do you work?

Ólta’di naashnish. Bá’ólta’í nishłį́. Nishą’? > I work at the school. I am a teacher. And you?

Chidí ánál’ į́įdi naashnish. Naasichgóósh díníyá? > I work at the garage. Are you going to work?

Dooda, díí įį́ doo naashnish da.*** Díí įį́ naasichgóósh díníyá? > No, I don't work today. Are you going to work today?

Aoo’, t’óó hodíína’go. Háágóósh díníyá? > Yes, soon. Where are you going?

Shaghangóó déyá. > I'm going home.

Nízaad́ish? > Is it far?

Dooda, do ńizaad da. > No, it's not far.

Hágoshį́į́. > Ok, bye.

Lá’aa, hágoshį́į. > Ok, bye.

***I wasn't sure if díí įį́ goes inside doo...da or not.


I'll have to check for typos later as i'm pretty tired right now, but if anyone spots one in the meantime, let me know.



Some of these are not correct. I would love to give answers via Skype, as I do not really like leaving things on forums for others to see. Just send me a PM and I will give you my Skype username. I speak Navajo.
’Ayóo shaa dzólní, ’aoo’, t’áá íídą́ą́’ shił bééhózin éí lá biniinaa ’at’ééké chxǫǫ́h dashinízin. T’óó ’ádíshní! ;)

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad

Postby ceid donn » 2013-11-02, 2:50

Sorry for the late reply. I'll have to look over this again and see what I wrote. I pretty much got it all out of Breakthrough Navajo. But once I have a chance to review those chapters I'll contact you.

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad

Postby ceid donn » 2013-11-08, 6:11

I'm reading slowly through the preview of The Navajo Verb on Google Book and thought I'd make a few notes. This is all from Chapter 2--basic analysis of the Navajo verb (some of this is obvious if you know a little a Navajo but it's worth spelling out):

- Navajo verbs are more complex than English verbs, as they simply do not indicate type of action and when the action happens, but can also indicate subject, number of subjects, number of times the action is done and various other information about the action

- Navajo verbs are based on a stem or root, but do not have suffixes like in English, but rather prefixes

- With the exception of few verb form (namely, irregular ones), all Navajo verbs will have at least one prefix. It is important to remember that because of this, the verb stem alone does not consistute a word, only a stem of a word. This is very different from how we view verbs in English.

- Most Navajo verb stems consist of a single syllable, and will always start with a consonant, making them easy to identify

- Navajo verbs will be comprised of a verb base, which is either the stem or the stem plus a prefix that fully define the type of action being done. The book give the example for "to play":

Bill naané (Bill is playing) - Naashné (I'm playing) - Naohné (you two are playing)

Here the stem -né is always seen with na-, with another prefix inbetween providing additional information. The stem -né and prefix na- together make the verb base that indicates the action "am/is/are playing".

N.B.: Not all Navajo verbs will have a verb base that is both a stem and a prefix. Sometimes they will only be a stem. Sometimes, also, they can have more than one prefix in the verb base.

- The two primary things that prefixes need to provide are who is doing the action and when does the action occur. Additional information may be provided but these are the primary things.

- Navajo verbs, like in English and many other languages, can be seperated into transitive and intransitive groups. Intransive verbs will have subject prefixes, while transitive verbs will have both subject and object prefixes. (This will be further addressed later in the book)

- Prefixes can be divided into a pattern of "outer" and "inner" prefixes. Outer prefixes, which are prefixes that help form the verb base, will come first and have a certain arrangment when there are more than one. Inner prefixes will come between the outer prefixes (if there are any outer prefixes) and teh stem, and these too have an arrangment they follow. Something called a classifier, which will be explained later in the book, can sometimes follow all prefixes and immediately preceed the stem.

- In intransitive verbs, the object prefix will be after the outer prefixes but preceed the subject prefixes.

- In this book, prefixes which will indicate subject, object and distributive plural are called inflectional preflexes.The term lexical prefixes is used for thse outer prefixes that are part of the verb base plus other prefixes that are not inflectional. Lexical prefixes can only be at the beginning of the verb or inbetween the "outer" and "inner" prefixes. (Explained further later on in the book)

- When prefixes are put together, certain adjustments may bemade in the pronunciation. There are rules for this, to be explained later in the book.

There is alittle bit more in Chapter 2, but I'm stopping now becuase I'm getting too tired to think about grammar. :lol:

Hágoónee' :D

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad

Postby handsomenavajo01 » 2013-11-08, 6:47

ceid donn wrote:I'm reading slowly through the preview of The Navajo Verb on Google Book and thought I'd make a few notes. This is all from Chapter 2--basic analysis of the Navajo verb (some of this is obvious if you know a little a Navajo but it's worth spelling out):

- Navajo verbs are more complex than English verbs, as they simply do not indicate type of action and when the action happens, but can also indicate subject, number of subjects, number of times the action is done and various other information about the action

- Navajo verbs are based on a stem or root, but do not have suffixes like in English, but rather prefixes

- With the exception of few verb form (namely, irregular ones), all Navajo verbs will have at least one prefix. It is important to remember that because of this, the verb stem alone does not consistute a word, only a stem of a word. This is very different from how we view verbs in English.

- Most Navajo verb stems consist of a single syllable, and will always start with a consonant, making them easy to identify

- Navajo verbs will be comprised of a verb base, which is either the stem or the stem plus a prefix that fully define the type of action being done. The book give the example for "to play":

Bill naané (Bill is playing) - Naashné (I'm playing) - Naohné (you two are playing)

Here the stem -né is always seen with na-, with another prefix inbetween providing additional information. The stem -né and prefix na- together make the verb base that indicates the action "am/is/are playing".

N.B.: Not all Navajo verbs will have a verb base that is both a stem and a prefix. Sometimes they will only be a stem. Sometimes, also, they can have more than one prefix in the verb base.

- The two primary things that prefixes need to provide are who is doing the action and when does the action occur. Additional information may be provided but these are the primary things.

- Navajo verbs, like in English and many other languages, can be seperated into transitive and intransitive groups. Intransive verbs will have subject prefixes, while transitive verbs will have both subject and object prefixes. (This will be further addressed later in the book)

- Prefixes can be divided into a pattern of "outer" and "inner" prefixes. Outer prefixes, which are prefixes that help form the verb base, will come first and have a certain arrangment when there are more than one. Inner prefixes will come between the outer prefixes (if there are any outer prefixes) and teh stem, and these too have an arrangment they follow. Something called a classifier, which will be explained later in the book, can sometimes follow all prefixes and immediately preceed the stem.

- In intransitive verbs, the object prefix will be after the outer prefixes but preceed the subject prefixes.

- In this book, prefixes which will indicate subject, object and distributive plural are called inflectional preflexes.The term lexical prefixes is used for thse outer prefixes that are part of the verb base plus other prefixes that are not inflectional. Lexical prefixes can only be at the beginning of the verb or inbetween the "outer" and "inner" prefixes. (Explained further later on in the book)

- When prefixes are put together, certain adjustments may bemade in the pronunciation. There are rules for this, to be explained later in the book.

There is alittle bit more in Chapter 2, but I'm stopping now becuase I'm getting too tired to think about grammar. :lol:

Hágoónee' :D


I have never really thought of it like that much in depth.
I just speak it and know the verbal system very well due to learning about it in college class. But not to the extent you explained.
Again, I am always willing to answer questions.

P.S. Breakthrough Navajo is okay, not the best text. I give it a 5 out of 10.
’Ayóo shaa dzólní, ’aoo’, t’áá íídą́ą́’ shił bééhózin éí lá biniinaa ’at’ééké chxǫǫ́h dashinízin. T’óó ’ádíshní! ;)

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Re: ceid donn - Diné Bizaad

Postby księżycowy » 2013-11-08, 11:52

Stealing you're thread for a moment ceid donn.

handsomenavajo01 wrote:
P.S. Breakthrough Navajo is okay, not the best text. I give it a 5 out of 10.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on Breakthrough Navajo (i.e.why do you give 5 out of 10?). Also, what resources would you recommend?
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.


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