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ceid donn - Brezhoneg - UniLang

ceid donn - Brezhoneg

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ceid donn
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ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2012-05-27, 19:04

***This is a thread for myself and anyone who wishes to join me in studying Breton. Comments from other people are welcome, but please post in a language I can read readily: English, Scottish Gaelic, French or German. Posts in Breton are fine as long as you provide a translation.

My Celtic foci are Gàidhlig and Brezhoneg, and I do not wish to be distracted by other Celtic languages in this thread. There's an entire forum beyond this thread to use those languages. Please respect my request.



[flag]br[/flag] Demat! [flag]br[/flag]

At long last, I've started learning Breton. I've been around Unilang long enough to know that Brezhoneg speakers/learners are few and far inbetween around here, so I'm pretty much expecting this to be a solo adventure (although if anyone else wants to joins, they are more than welcomed!).

I'm only using online resources right now, as I'm a pure beginner, but will need to get a proper text and dictionary in the very near future. If anyone has any recommendations, please share (I can read French so that's not an issue).

If anyone's interested, I'm doing the online lessons at Karvarker: http://www.kervarker.org/en/lessons_01_toc.html
Last edited by ceid donn on 2012-06-15, 1:19, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-27, 19:19

nì eile wrote:(although if anyone else wants to joins, they are more than welcomed!).

I wish I could, but I can't. At least not yet anyway. :(

I'm only using online resources right now, as I'm a pure beginner, but will need to get a proper text and dictionary in the very near future. If anyone has any recommendations, please share (I can read French so that's not an issue).

The Elementary Breton Dictionary by Raymond Delaporte (it's both Breton ->English and English -> Breton) is a very good pocket-sized dictionary.
I had an extra copy at one point, which I would have gladly given away to a fellow Unilanger, but alas someone bought it through Amazon.

If anyone's interested, I'm doing the online lessons at Karvarker: http://www.kervarker.org/en/lessons_01_toc.html

I remember those lessons. They're pretty good! :wink:
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2012-05-27, 19:37

Thanks. That dictionary is OOP, but I was able to find and order a used copy that wasn't insanely pricey. Also found a decently priced copy of Delaporte's Brezhoneg Buan Hag Aes Denez (I think Alasdair, who shows up at Unilang from time to time, is using that). It's only text, regrettably, and I'm someone who needs sound files. I'm blind without some sense of how a language should sound. But I'll see how well I do with online audio resources for now.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-27, 20:43

nì eile wrote:That dictionary is OOP
Sorry, I didn't realize that.

I guess since I already have a copy I really didn't have any reason to check. :P

Also found a decently priced copy of Delaporte's Brezhoneg Buan Hag Aes Denez (I think Alasdair, who shows up at Unilang from time to time, is using that).

Let me know what you think, I plan on eventually getting that myself. I've noticed it used on Amazon for a decent price. I might spring for it.
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2012-05-27, 21:04

I may have snagged the copy you saw. :lol:

Someone has told me there's problems with Buan Hag Aes and that the recordings are not very good. But since the English version doesn't include the recordings, I think he means the original French version. The English version is suppose to be a re-vamping of the French version and not a direct translation. But we'll see.

Also been recommended Selaou, Selaou...Écoute, Écoute, which is suppose to have better recordings than the original Ban hag Aes. I am not able to find a copy in the US that isn't at an inflated price so I'll have to order it from either the UK or France. It's roughly 35 euros and includes 30 conversations. It looks like a better alternative to Colloquial Breton, but it is only in French.
Last edited by ceid donn on 2012-05-27, 22:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-27, 21:22

Well, I already have Colloquial Breton, so I might as well use it. But I’m hoping that Brezhoneg Buan Hag Aes Denez is good with the grammar.
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2012-05-27, 23:23

Yeah, naturally stick with CB if that's what you have. Are you considering joining me, hmm?

I tracked down Alasdair (thanks to one of my Gaelic tweeps) on Twitter agus chuir mi tweet thuige. Maybe he can stop by here and let us know what he thinks of the English version of Brezhoneg Buan Hag Aes Denez (if I'm recalling correctly, that's the test he's using).

The only other grammar-oriented text that I can get a hold of readily is Assimil. The older Assmil is cheap but the sound files are not available to us here in the US as far as I know (the sites that host them deny US users access). And I've heard mixed reviews about the newer Assmil, which would cost about US$100 for text and CDs, so I'm a little hesitant.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-28, 1:17

nì eile wrote:Are you considering joining me, hmm?

Well I wouldn't mind doing a Brythonic language or tow (or three :P )
I have to confess Cornish and Welsh are up there too. I'm not sure which of the three I would start with. Nor am I sure I want to start one quite yet. But it is safe to say I'm considering it.

I tracked down Alasdair [...]

That would be good. I don't have a ton of money to shell out for the Assimil (well, either really), so here's hoping. *fingers crossed*
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby Alasdair » 2012-05-28, 20:52

Since everyone has apparently been waiting on me, I should probably give some answers :p

I own the following books:

Brezhoneg: Buan hag Aes
Colloquial Breton
Le Breton Pour les Nuls
Le Breton [Asimil]
Oulpan [Book 1]
Geriadur Soazneg\Brezhoneg [Dictionary]
I also have numerous vocabulary sheets and resources I've sourced online

"Brezhoneg: Buan hag Aes" is good, but if you don't speak French you will get confused - there is an English version available, but it's pricey in comparison to the French versions. As has been mentioned, "Colloquial Breton" is a bit of a mess and advances too quickly for the average learner - it's only because I've learnt Gaelic that I know what all the grammatical words and references mean and even as someone who has learned many a language, the book advances too much within each lesson. "Le Breton Pour les Nuls" is a bit of an odd book - it doesn't have any structure to it and is only relly useful if you speak French and want to reference things. It has a lot of examples of grammar in it though - it is also very cheap [about 5 quid]

"Oulpan" is by far the best course, as it has a CD with sound files for almost everything in the book and it has a lot of grammar examples and exercises to do. It costs 30 Euro per book [ech books has 25 units]. Along with Oulpan 1, I'm using "Le Breton" and it's great. I don't have the CD for it, but it comes with a pronunciation guide and if used with Oulpan, you can get the pronunciation. The lessons in "Le Breton" seem to flow quite well with those of "Oulpan."

The best place to find Breton books is via PriceMinister.fr and via Coop Breizh [Breton orientated book specialist]. eBay can also be useful - there is a seller on there who sells "Le Breton" for 20 quid.

Any other questions? Add me @Alasdair91 or on Skype "ailig91",
Tha mi fileanta sa Bheurla agus cha mhòr sa Ghàidhlig. Cuideachd, tha mi ag ionnsachadh na Breatannais. Leig fios dhomh ma nì mi mearachdan! I speak Fluent English and Gaelic. I am also learning Breton. Let me know if I make mistakes!

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2012-05-30, 2:12

Woo hoo! I ordered Oulpan, but Alasdair sent me scans of the first chapter to get started on, so I'm working on that. Also using Kervarder still because it just more exposure to the sounds of Breton, which is what I need.

Maybe I'm kidding myself at this stage, but despite its complexity, I seem to find Breton pronunciation easier than I did Gaelic pronunciation when I was starting out with it. Granted, when I started Gaelic some of the sounds were new to me (like that blasted slender r).

And I keep trying to pronounce deoc'h like the Gaelic deoch, and that makes me want to go pour me a dram. :wink:

Also: Breton first names are pretty awesome.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-30, 9:45

Could I get a link to where I could order "Oulpan."
I've been trying to look for it, but I can't find it too easily. :?
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2012-05-30, 14:46

It's only in French and you'll have to pay shipping from France (for me it was 24€ :? )
http://www.coop-breizh.fr/index.php?pag ... d=boutique

It's based on the ùlpan system used for Gaelic (there's aWelsh one too, Wlpan--I think that was the original one.).
Last edited by ceid donn on 2012-05-30, 14:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby księżycowy » 2012-05-30, 14:51

I figured it was in French, which considering I'm studying French shouldn't be a (major) problem.

But 24€ just for shipping? Ouch. Maybe someday, but not anytime soon. :darn:
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby corcaighist » 2012-05-31, 20:21

Tá's 'ad, tá acmhainní ar fáil ar líne, téascleabhar agus comhaid fuaime, mura miste leat iad a íoslódáil saghas go mídhleathach.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby linguoboy » 2012-05-31, 20:34

nì eile wrote:It's based on the ùlpan system used for Gaelic (there's aWelsh one too, Wlpan--I think that was the original one.).

The original ulpanim were for teaching immigrants to Israel Hebrew. (The word itself is Hebrew for "instruction".) The Welsh may have been the first to adapt the Israeli system to their own needs, but I couldn't say for certain; I didn't realise it had spread to Scotland.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2012-06-02, 21:28

Yeah, now that you've mentioned it, I recall that it was originally to reintroduce Hebrew as a community language.


Demat an holl :D

So things are going pretty well. :lol: Among other things, I've learned you could teach a whole college semester on how to say hello in Brezhoneg. :whistle:

I find a few things with pronunciation a little tricky, but so far, not as bad as I did with Gàidhlig at this stage. I think there's hope for me. :P

Gone through lessons 1-3 on Kervarker and Kentel 1 in Brezh Buan hag Eas (it arrived, so I'm going to use it). Tomorrow Alasdair and I plan to work through Kentel 0 in Oulpan.

My Brezh-Eng/Eng-Brezh dictionary came, and it's only Brezh-Eng, despite the original description saying it was the dual version. :? So I'm going to have to find another dictionary. But for now I think I can manage.

As I mentioned in my SAC thread, Alasdair sent me this link for Brezhoneg vids, which I've also been using: http://www.brezhoweb.com/an_holl_brogra ... ubrique=10

Some random, fun words I've learned:

soazneg (m.) = a' Bheurla (Shasannach)
saoznek = anns a' Bheurla
Saoz / Saozez = Sasannach / Ban-Sasannach

skoseg (m.) = a' Ghàidhlig
skosek = anns a' Ghàidhlig
Skos / Skosez = Albannach / Ban-Albannach

Stadoù-Unanet = na Stàitean Aonaichte
Amerikan / Amerikanez = Aimeireaganach / Ban-Aimeireaganach

Also gaol in Gàidhlig means love, but in Brezhoneg it means fork. Best not confuse them. :P

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby księżycowy » 2012-06-02, 22:31

nì eile wrote:Gone through lessons 1-3 on Kervarker and Kentel 1 in Brezh Buan hag Eas (it arrived, so I'm going to use it).

What are your impressions of Brezh Buan hag Eas?
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2012-06-02, 22:37

Based on one lesson, it reminds me of the Teach Yourself Gaelic book: designed to teach you some basics quickly, but not terribly thorough and heavy, like Wheelock's Latin. Lacks an English-Breton glossary (only Bret-Eng) but at least the table of contents are detailed enough that I can forgive it for not having an index. I found the first lesson easy enough. That's encouraging, yes?

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby księżycowy » 2012-06-02, 22:46

Yes indeed!

I'm eying that book the most, as the others seem too expensive or too hard to come by. Plus I'm not looking for fluency in Breton. Let me know if your impressions change as you get deeper into the book, if you could.
Thanks! :D
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: nì eile - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2012-06-08, 6:26

księżycowy, I just stole your new avatar to make a desktop icon for my Brezhoneg folder. Looks nice! :lol:


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