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ceid donn - Brezhoneg - Page 7 - UniLang

ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Moderator: Ciarán12

ceid donn
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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2013-02-14, 19:05

Zviezda wrote:Kalz avaloù-douar a vezez o prenañ? (but it doesn't sound natural, nor the question, you'd use the simple present: kalz avaloù-douar a brenez?) Ne vezan ket. (Ne brenan ket/ne ran ket)
Ne gavan ket mat avaloù-douar.


I struggled with this one. I was trying to say "Do you usually/typically buy a lot of potatoes?" then answer "No, I don't. I don't like potatoes". So, using the simple present would be OK for that then:

Kalz avaloù-douar a brenez? Ne ran ket. Ne gavan ket mat avaloù-douar.

In Gàidhlig, when you initially respond to a question with either "yes" or "no", you need to reply using the same verb and verb tense as in the question. So Breton is less stict about that? If someone asked me a question using prenañ as its primary verb, I can simply answer Ne ran ket?

Pegeit e pado ho vakañsoù?


Ok, I see what I did wrong with my orginal sentence.

N'eus ket peder gwezenn (feminine) el liorzh-se? Nann, n'eus ket. Div wezenn hepken a zo el liorzh-se (but normally people say "n'eus ken 'met div wezenn el liorzh-se")


I wasn't able to find the gender for gwer (oddly BBHA doesn't include the gender of nouns in its glossary, nor was the gender of gwer noted in Delaporte's dictionary :? ). Now I know! :D

I don't know why I used da. I meant e. :?

"n'eus ken 'met div wezenn el liorzh-se" - there is not but two trees in that field. Correct? You would say that in Gàidhlig too so that will be easy for me to remember. :)

I have a quick qustion: I posted a video of Daonet on Twitter and someone replied to me with "Selaouet e vez Daonet e Texas neuze ?" and I wanted to simply answer "Yes, they are". That seems likes something I ought to know how to say by now, but I coudn't figure it out. Everything I came up with didn't look right. What would be to most natural way to say that?

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby Zviezda » 2013-02-15, 1:52

I struggled with this one. I was trying to say "Do you usually/typically buy a lot of potatoes?" then answer "No, I don't. I don't like potatoes". So, using the simple present would be OK for that then:

Kalz avaloù-douar a brenez? Ne ran ket. Ne gavan ket mat avaloù-douar.


Yes.

In Gàidhlig, when you initially respond to a question with either "yes" or "no", you need to reply using the same verb and verb tense as in the question. So Breton is less stict about that? If someone asked me a question using prenañ as its primary verb, I can simply answer Ne ran ket?


Depends on the verb. If the question uses the verb to be or to have (as the real verb or as the auxiliary verb), you use it in the answer.
If the question uses another verb, you can answer by using either the same verb, or the verb "to do" (ober).

I wasn't able to find the gender for gwer (oddly BBHA doesn't include the gender of nouns in its glossary, nor was the gender of gwer noted in Delaporte's dictionary :? ). Now I know! :D


all singulative nouns that end in -enn (those whose singular are formed from the collective, you know gwez > gwezenn) are feminine :)

"n'eus ken 'met div wezenn el liorzh-se" - there is not but two trees in that field. Correct? You would say that in Gàidhlig too so that will be easy for me to remember. :)


n'eus ken 'met = there's (not) anymore but.

I have a quick qustion: I posted a video of Daonet on Twitter and someone replied to me with "Selaouet e vez Daonet e Texas neuze ?" and I wanted to simply answer "Yes, they are". That seems likes something I ought to know how to say by now, but I coudn't figure it out. Everything I came up with didn't look right. What would be to most natural way to say that?


You'd answer "Ya" or "Ya, graet e vez". (yes, "it is done" -- but with the habitual present)

ceid donn
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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2013-02-19, 17:10

Well, I submitted a Daonet song to the FSC 24 here and now I'm told I can't vote for the song I submitted. Like who else here's going to vote for a Breton song? :roll: Oh well, so much for that. Glad I never bothered with submitting songs to the FSC before now.

Anyhow, I was looking at this short poem that a Breton tweeter named Yann Erwan Paveg (@skeudigou) tweeted recently (I left it as he wrote it in two seperate tweets):

hag an deizioù o deus hadet / e park hor buhezioù / ken treut / ken bresk ar gorzenn / ha ni mignoned / ken feal / ha ken gwasket /

an trubard a ra e babor / dirak an dud / ha koulskoude ... n'eus ket d'ober e gilhog / touellet gantañ e ved / hag e vrud


There's quite a few words I don't know yet. I'm going to look at this poem this afternoon and then work on Kentel 14.

ceid donn
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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2013-02-26, 1:09

Saw this little nwws blurb on 7seizh:

Bank Of Amerika haket gant an Anonymous !

25/02/13 – 9e07 GM : Biskoazh kement all ! Henoazh, ar strollad kuzh Anonymous en deus embannet eo bet haket lec’hienn « Bank Of America » gantañ. Brezelourion ar siber-brezel o defe haket teuliadoù, rentaoù-kont ha kemenadennoù diabarzh ha lakaet tout an traoù enlinenn.

My translation attempt:

Bank of America hacked by Anonymous

Shocking! (or Breaking! perhaps? ) Tonight, the covert group Anonymous proclaimed the Bank of America site was hacked by them ( :?: --I'm really unsure of the verb tense and voice here). The cyberwar fighers hacked files, accounts and internal memos and put everything online.

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby Zviezda » 2013-02-26, 14:43

25/02/13 – 9e07 GM : Biskoazh kement all ! Henoazh, ar strollad kuzh Anonymous en deus embannet eo bet haket lec’hienn « Bank Of America » gantañ. Brezelourion ar siber-brezel o defe haket teuliadoù, rentaoù-kont ha kemennadennoù diabarzh ha lakaet tout an traoù enlinenn.

Bank of America hacked by Anonymous

Unbelievable (biskoazh kement all is like "I've never seen such a thing!") Tonight, the covert group Anonymous proclaimed the Bank of America site had been hacked by them. The cyberwar fighters would have (are said to have) hacked files , accounts and internal memos and put everything online.

Note: the words lec'hienn, teuliadoù, enlinenn are unnatural coined words. It's also strange to see the Vannetais word "henoazh" in that text, while nothing else is Vannetais.
Rentaoù-kont is understandable but it's strange to put an infinitive (rentañ) in the plural... Not sure native speakers ever do that.

Using "haket" is a bit strange because that word already exists and means "to stammer". With the context we understand it's not that but we could rather use "piratet" instead, or something like that.

ceid donn
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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2013-05-03, 16:02

Ok, I've neglected this thread for couple months :shock: --time to revive it. :D

I've read up to Kentel 20 in BBHA, but left off at Kentel 13 in this thread. Since I could benefit from a review, I'll start here with Kentelioù 14 & 15.

Kentel 14 covers:

- Irregular verb gouzout in present tense:

1) Conjugation with endings: ouzon, ouzout, oar, uzomp, ouzoc'h, ouzont, ouzer
2) Conjugation with subject: me a oar, te a oar, eñ a oar, hi a oar, ni a oar, c'hwi a ar, int a oar
3) Conjugation with ober: gouzout a ran, gouzout a rez, houzout a ra, gouzout a reomp, gouzout a rit, gouzout a reont, gouzout a reer

- Hard mutation:

G > K ; GW > KW ; D > T ; B > P

-- note: this mutation only occurs after ho, az and ez

- Summary of all mutations:

K > G or C'H ; G > C'H or K ; GW > W or KW ; T > D or Z ; D > Z or T ; P > B or F ; B > P or V ; M > V

-- note: One exception: dor > an nor

- Conjugated prepositions da and evit

din, dit, dezhañ, dezhi, deomp, deoc'h, dezho
evidon, evidout, evitañ, eviti, evidomp, evidoc'h, evito

- Possessive forms az and ez

da + az becomes d'az = 'to your'
Instead of en da, use ez = 'in your'

- Possessive forms am and em

da + ma becomes d'am = 'to my'
instad of en ma, use em = 'in my'

Kentel 15 covers
:

- Irregular verb mont in present tense:

1) Conjugation with endings: ez an, ez ez, ez a, a ya, ez eomp, ez it, ez eont, ez eer
2) Conjugation with subject: me a ya, te a ya, eñ a ya, hi a ya, ni a ya, c'hwi a ya, int a ya
3) Conjugation with ober: mont a ran, mont arez, mont a ra, mont a reomp, mont a rit, mont a reont, mont a reer

- Equative form:

as X as Y = ken X hag/ha Y

N'amavezan paotr ebet ken disoñj hag hennezh - I don't know any boy as forgetful as he.

- How to use conjugated prepositions after verbs

Spoken and written Breton uses a prepositional pronoun after a transitive verb

Un eur 'zo emaon o c'hortoz ac'hanoc'h - I have been waiting an hour for you.
Da voereb he deus pedet ac'hanomp - Your aunt has invited us.

Literary Breton may use a direct object personal pronoun, placed before the verb (may cause mutation):

Un eur 'zo emaon ouzh ho kortoz.
Da veoreb he deus hor pedet.

- Conjugated preposition a

ac'hanon, ac'hanout, anezhañ, anezhi, ac'hanomp, ac'hanoc'h, anezho

Note to myself: this conjugation is not listed in Delaporte's dictionary, but it has the same endings as evit

- Subordination (relative clause):

May be introduced by:

a) a conjunction, like pa (when) or ma (if)
b) an interrogative like pelec'h (where)
c) a relative particle: e (that), a (who, who, which, that), latter is always either subject or direct object
-- note: am is a contractionof a + em
-- note: when the relative clause which is introduced by a has the same subject as the principal clause, the subjct is placed at the beginning of the sentence, followed by the clause and then by the rest of the prinicipal clause. Ex: Da voereb a zo o chom e Roazhon he deus deus pedet ac'hanomp - Your aunt who lives in Rennes has invited us
-- note: if there are two different subjects, the relative clause follows the principal. Ex. Ha kemer ar rumm botoù skañv am (a+em) eus prenet dit warlene. - And take the pair of light shoes I bought for you last year.
d) sometimes, like in English, a relative clause does not require an introductory word. Ex. Un eur 'zo emaon o c'hortoz ac'hanout.

- Order of words in relative clauses:

1) introductory word (when used) ; 2) Negation (if needed) ; 3) Verb ; 4) Subject ; 5) Direct object ; 6) Indirect object or abverbs of time or place

Ex. am eus prenet dit warlene

-- note: the relative particles e and a are the same as the verbal particles e and a ; the only difference is context, i.e whether they are used in the main clause or to introduce a relative clause. In spoken Breton, stress is also used to emphasize context.

- Mutations after pe (or)

Pe causes soft mutation if it forms a related unit: Kemer ul levr skol pe zaou
Where used to express contrast, it triggers no mutation: Gwelout da eontr, pe gwelout e garr?

OK, that's a review for my sake of what was covered in Kentelioù 14 & 15. Hopefully I didn't make too many typos. :P I will post the poelladennoù next.
Last edited by ceid donn on 2013-05-04, 1:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2013-05-04, 1:03

Kentel 14

Goulennoù gant troidigezhioù:

Evit piv eo ar banerad avaloù: evidout pe evidon? N'eo ket evidout, ha n'eo ket evidon: evit ma zud eo, evito!
From whom is the basketful of apples: for you or for me? No, not for you, and not for me: it is for my parents, for them!

Hag an troer-pladennoù a zo din? N'eo ket dit; prenet eo bet gant ma zud ; neuze eo dezho.
And the record-player, it is for me? No (it's not for you): it has been bought by my parents; so it is for them.

Piv a oar brezhoneg? Ni a oar: brezhoneg a ouzomp, ha saozneg ivez.
Who knows Breton? We do (know): we know Breton, and English too.

Met c'hwi, n'ouzoc'h ket brezhoneg? Eo, gouzout a ran.
But you, you do not know Breton? Yes, I do (know).

Prenañ a rit bilhedoù lotiri? Ya, a-wechoù: n'ouzer morse!
Did you buy raffle tickets? Yes, sometimes: one never knows!

Hag evidomp-ni n'eus netra? Eo, poelladennoù da ober a zo evidoc'h.
And us, is there nothing for us? Yes, there will be exercises for you to do.

Pelec'h emañ ho kwreg? Er gêr emañ, o tiwall ar vugale.
Where is your wife? She is at home, watching the children.

Kavout a rit mat ho poued? Ya, mat-tre e kavan ma boued.
Do you like your food? Yes, I like my food very much.

Ker o deus koustet ho tilhad? N'o deus ket: gant ma mamm int bet graet.
Were your clothes expensive? No: They were made by my mother.

Gant da wreg e oa Jakez o komz? Ne oa ket: gant ma wreg e oa o komz.
Was James speaking to your wife? No: he was speaking to my wife.

Brezhoneg a ouzoc'h? N'ouzomp ket c'hoazh.
Do you know Breton? No, not yet.

Hag int a oar? N'ouzont ket.
And them, do they know? No (they don't know).

Kalz amann ac'h eus lakaet ez kwastell? N'em eus ket: nebeut am eus lakaet.
So you put a lot of butter in your cake? No: I put just a little.

Poelladennoù:

1.

N'ouzomp ket brezhoneg mat.
Labourat a ouzon.
N'ouzont ket pelec'h mont da gousket.
Hennezh a oar brezhoneg ivez.
Petra a ouzer pa vezer yaouank?
Yannig, n'ouzout ket pelec'h emañ ma c'haier?
Alies e ouzer ha ne lavarer netra.
Nebeut a dra a oar.

2.

Piv a oar brezhoneg? Int a oar.
Petra a ouzoc'h? Netra.
Mat e ouzoc'h brezhoneg? N'ouzon ket.
hag eñ a oar pe ne oar ket/pe ne ra ket? Ne oar ket.
N'ouzomp ket brezhoneg? Eo, gouzout a reomp brezhoneg mat.

3.

Buan e tebrit ho poued atav.
Plijus eo bet ho peaj?
N'em eus ket klevet ho koulenn.
Kavout a rit mat ho panne.
Kollet ho peus ho pilhed.
Pelec'h emañ ho taou vreur?
Echu ho tevezh ganeoc'h!
Na pegen lous eo ho pilhed!
Petra a rit gant ho kwin?
Klevout a rit ho kwreg o tont.

4.

Roet ac'h eus un tamm bara d'az preur?
Prenañ a rez limigoù d'az pugale.
Kalz pesked a zo ez pag?
Petra en deus lavaret d'az kwreg?
Gwin a zo ez kwerenn?

5.

Piv a zo amañ em c'harr?
Roet en deus un tamm kig d'am c'hazh.
N'en deus ket komzet d'am zad-kozh.
Kalz avaloù am eus em faner.
Chom a ran atav em c'horn.

6.

Aet eo da bourmen ganti.
N'em eus prenet netra evidout.
Diskouezit din an ti nevez.
Komzet en deus pell ganeoc'h.
Evidout em eus lakaet un tamm bara war an daol.
O fardañ krampouezh evito e oa.
Morse ne ro arc'hant a-walc'h dezhi.
Prenet en deus ur sae nevez evidon.
An traoù-se a zo dezhañ, n'int ket deomp.
Diskouezit ho kaier dezho.


OK, I have to stop here, as it's getting late. I will have to post Kentel 15 in the morning. :D

Thanks to Zviezda for the corrections :)
Last edited by ceid donn on 2013-05-05, 12:16, edited 1 time in total.

ceid donn
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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2013-05-04, 17:24

Kentel 15 - Goulennoù gant troidigezhioù:

Da belec'h ez ez bep mintin? D'ar skol ez an bep mintin.
(To) where do you go every morning? I go to school every morning.

Ha da vreur, d'ar skol ez a ivez? O, hennezh n'a ket d'ar skol: re vihan eo. Da c'hoari ez a, pe da bourmen.
And your brother, does he go to school also? O, he doesn't got to school: he is too little. He goes to play or for a walk.

Piv neuze a ya d'ar skol ganit? Ma c'hoar a zeu d'ar skol genin. N'a ket da c'hoari gant ma breur. D'ar skol e teu ganin.
Who then goes to school with you? My sister comes to school with me. She doesn't play with my brother; she comes to school with me.

Da belec'h ez eer d'ar sul? Da bourmen war ar maez ez eer, pe da welout mignoned.
(To) where does one go on Sundays? One goes for a walk in the countryside or to see freinds.

Ha c'hwi, mamm, da belec'h ez it d'ar sul? A-wechoù es an da bourmen met aliesoc'h e choman er gêr d'ober ma labour.
And you, Mother, (to) where do you go on Sundays? Sometimes I go for a walk but more often I stay at home to do my work.

Yannig hag e vamm, da belec'h ez eont da bourmen a-wechoù? Da Roazhon ez eont.
Yannig and his mother, (to) where do they go for a walk somethings?? They go to Rennes.

Karout a rit ac'hanomp, mamm? Ya, bugale: karout a ran ac'hanoc'h.
Do you love us, Mother? Yes, children: I love you.

Gwelout a rit anezhañ a-wechoù? Morse/Ne welan anezhañ morse.
Do you see him sometimes? I never see him.

Hag hi a welit a-wechoù? - Ya, hi a welan a-wechoù.
And do you see her sometimes? Yes, I see her sometimes.

Pelec'h emañ ma botoù? N'ouzon ket pelec'h emañ ho potoù!
Where is my pair of shoes? I do not know where your pair of shoes are!

Piv a zo o tont bremañ? N'ouzon ket piv a zo o tont.
Who is coming now? I don't know who is coming.

Piv eo an den a zo o tont bremañ? Ma zad eo an den a zo o tont bremañ.
Who are the person who are coming now? My father is the person who is coming now.

Piv a zebro an avaloù a zo bet prenet dec'h? Me a zebro anezho.
Who will eat the apples that were bought yesterday? I will eat them.

Pegoulz e vo desket ar c'hentelioù a zo bet roet gant ar mestr-skol? Warc'hoazh e vint desket.
When will the lessons that were given by the schoolmaster be taught? Tomorrow they will be taught.

I will post the poelladennoù for Kentel 15 tonight.

Corrections by Zviezda :)
Last edited by ceid donn on 2013-05-05, 12:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby Zviezda » 2013-05-05, 10:42

Hag an troer-pladennoù, din eo? N'eo ket dit; prenet eo bet gant ma zud; neuze, dezho eo.
And the record-player, it is for me? No (it's not for you): it has been bought by my parents; so it is for them.


should be:
Hag an troer-pladennoù a zo din? N'eo ket dit; prenet eo bet gant ma zud ; neuze eo dezho.

Met c'hwi, n'ouzit ket brezhoneg? Eo, gouzout a ran.


"ouzit" doesn't exist, as far as I know, the standard form is "ouzoc'h".

But you, you do not know Breton? Yes, I do (know). :?: > ouzit here seems to be 2nd person form of gouzout, but there's no explanation of this form in my text


*sigh*, it doesn't exist actually.

Prenañ a rit bihedoù lotiri? Ya, a-wechoù: n'ouzer morse!


bilhedoù, with ilh

Ha ni, n'eus netra evidomp? Eo, poelladennoù da ober a zo evidoc'h.
And us, is there nothing for us? Yes, there will be tasks for you to do.


Should be "Hag evidomp-ni n'eus netra?"
poelladennoù means "exercises".

Pelec'h emañ ho kwerg? Er gêr emañ, o tiwall ar vugale.
Where is your wife? She is at home, watching the children.


ho kwreg

Ket o deus koustet ho tilhad? N'o deus ket: gant ma mamm int bet graet.
Were your clothes expensive? No: They were made by my mother.


KeR o deus koustet ho tilhad...

D'az kwerg e oa Jakez o komz? Ne oa ket: d'am gwreg e oa o komz.
Was James speaking to your wife? No: he was speaking to my wife.


kwreg
By the way, I'm not sure you can say "komz da" except when there's a direct object in the same clause (Me a oa o komz deoc'h eus an dra-se). Otherwise you say "komz gant" or "komz ouzh"...
Should be:
Gant da wreg e oa Jakez o komz?...

Brezhoneg a ouzit? N'ouzomp ket c'hoazh.
Do you know Breton? No, not yet.


ouzoc'h

Hag int, gouzout a reont? N'ouzont ket.
And them, do they know? No (they don't know).


Should be: Hag int a oar?, not "int, gouzout a reont".

1.

Labourat e ouzon.

a ouzon

N'ouzont ket pelec'h mont da gouset.


gousket

Nebeut a dra e oar.


a oar (when the direct object is before the verb, the particle is A)


Petra a ouzit? N'ouzon netra.


ouzoc'h
normally you'd answer "netra" only.

Mat e ouzit brezhoneg? N'ouzon ket.


ouzoc'h

Hag eñ, gouzout a ra pe ne ra ket? N'oar ket.


hag eñ a oar pe ne oar ket (or : pe ne ra ket)
Ne oar ket

N'ouzomp ket brezhoneg? Eo, gouzout a reont brezhoneg mat.


ouzomp = we know
gouzout a reont = they know



Petra a rit gent ho kwin?


gant



Roet ac'h eus un tamm bara d'az breur?


d'az preur

Prenañ e rez limigoù d'az pugale.


prenañ A rez

6.
Komzet en deus hir ganeoc'h.


normally "a long time" is "pell".

Diskouezit zo kaier dezho.


I guess it's "ho kaier".

Ha c'hwi, mamm, da belec'h ez it d'ar sul? A-wechoù es an da bourmen met aliesoc'h :?: e choman er gêr d'ober ma labour.
And you, Mother, (to) where do you go on Sundays? Sometimes I go for a walk but often I stay at home to do my work.


aliesoc'h = more often
Gwelout a rit anezhañ a-wechoù? Ne welan anezhañ morse.
Do you see him sometimes? I never see him.


yeah, but normally people would answer "morse" only.

Hag ni, gwelout a rit anezhi a-wechoù? Ya, a-wechòu e welan anezhi.
And her, do you see her sometimes? Yes, sometimes I see her.


should be:
Hag hi a welit a-wechoù? - Ya, hi a welan a-wechoù.

Kenavo ar c'hentañ :)

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2013-05-05, 12:06

Zviezda wrote:
"ouzit" doesn't exist, as far as I know, the standard form is "ouzoc'h".


OK. In the table given in the kentel it lists "ouzoc'h" but then the author uses "ouzit" in the exercises. :?

Zviezda wrote:By the way, I'm not sure you can say "komz da" except when there's a direct object in the same clause (Me a oa o komz deoc'h eus an dra-se). Otherwise you say "komz gant" or "komz ouzh"...
Should be:
Gant da wreg e oa Jakez o komz?...


OK. I'll have to remember this.

Trugarez! :)

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby Zviezda » 2013-05-05, 20:47

OK. In the table given in the kentel it lists "ouzoc'h" but then the author uses "ouzit" in the exercises.


lol
thinking that the author was the head of the Breton department in Rennes university... and he doesn't even know what is the conjugation of the verb "to know" in the present tense in his beloved standard Irish. Btw he wasn't able to pronounce Breton properly either. That often happens among Breton activists.
The model to follow is the speech of native speakers -- mainly older people in the countryside. The Breton spoken and written by "intellectuals" is crap most of the time.

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2013-05-06, 0:01

Zviezda wrote:The model to follow is the speech of native speakers -- mainly older people in the countryside. The Breton spoken and written by "intellectuals" is crap most of the time.


Understandable. We pretty much do the same with Gaelic.

I was wondering what you thought of the writer Yann Bijer. I read this short interview with him earlier today and found most of it fairly accessible for me: http://skolanemsav.canalblog.com/archiv ... 24660.html


OK, now Kentel 15 - Poelladennoù (There's a lot for this Kentel :shock: )

1. Change word order

Mont a ran d'ar skol bemdez. > Bemdez ez an d'ar skol.
Mont a ra bemdez da welout e vamm. > Bemdez ez a da welout e vamm.
Mont a reomp alies da bourmen. > Alies ez eomp da bourmen.
Mont a reer alies da welout ar re a garer. > Alies ez eer da welout ar re a garer. (does "ar re a garer" mean "relatives"?)
Mont a rit alies d'ar gêr? > D'ar gêr ez it alies?

2. Use mont to complete the sentences

Piv ez a bemdez da zebriñ krampouezh?
Da evañ ur banne laezh tomm ez an pa vez yen an amzer.
N'ez ez ket bemdez da bourmen.
Perak ez eer d'ar skol?
Perak ez it bemdez da besketa?

3. Write in the equative form

Ne vez ket ken brav an amzer er goañv hag en hañv.
Ken bras ha Jakez eo Yannig.
Ken tomm ha dec'h eo hiziv.
N'out ket ken fur ha da vreur.
N'eo ket hemañ ken bras hag e c'hoar.

4. Write the sentences for section 3 in comparative form (is there's difference between using "evit" and "ebet"?)

Ne vez ket an amzer er goañv bravoc'h evit en hañv.
Brasoc'h eo Jakez evit Yannig.
Tommoc'h eo hiziv evit dec'h.
N'out ket furoc'h evit da vreur.
N'eo ket hemañ brasoc'h evit e c'hoar.

5. Complete with ac'hanon/ac'hanout/etc.

Klevet em eus anezhañ o tont.
Pedet he deus ac'hanoc'h da zebriñ koan.
Selaouet em eus anezho o kontañ istorioù.
Gwelet em eus anezhi o tibab ur sae nevez.
Ne welan ket ac'hanout bemdez siwazh.

6. Substitute with ac'hanon/ac'hanout/etc.

Gwelet he deus anezhañ (he zad) o tont.
Kemerit anezhañ (al levr)!
Prenet he deus anezhi (ar sae nevez).
N'hon eus ket klevet anezho (an dud) o tont.
Kasit anezho (ar vugale) da bourmen.

7. Same as above

Klevout a ran anezho (ar vugale) o choual.
Selaou a ran anezhañ (ar c'helenner) o komz.
Kemer a ran anezho (ar levrioù) da lenn.
Evañ a ran anezhi (ar werennad laezh) buan.
Klevout a ran anezhi (ar merc'hig) o kanañ.

8. Rewrite sentences with a subordinate clause (I found these a little difficult, so I apologize if they don't make sense :blush: )

N'ouzon ket piv ez a bemdez da besketa.
Lavaret he deus mamm a zeskiñ ar c'hentelioù a ranker.
Soñjal a ran a dorrent e vo an troer-pladennoù c'hoazh.
Klevet em eus lavarout a zo kalz tud o tont d'ar pardon.
Gouzout a ran a vo an amzer brav warc'hoazh.
Gouzout a ran pelec'h emañ o vont da brenañ ul levr nevez.
Gouzout a ran a labour da vamm kalz.
N'ouzon ket piv eo an den a tiskenn betek an aod bemdez.
N'ouzon ket perak a klevan tud o c'hoarzhin er skol atav.
Soñjal a ran ne blij ket al limigoù d'ar merc'hed kalz.

9. Same as above

Piv eo ar bugel a welan o c'hoari el liorzh?
Pelec'h emañ ar paotrig a kav krampouezh e vamm-gozh mat?
Piv eo an itron a klevan o kanañ en he zi?
Kemer a ran al levr eo bet prenet gant mamm.
Perak n'eo ket deut c'hoazh an den a werzhañ pesked fresk ha marc'had-mat?

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby Zviezda » 2013-05-06, 3:58

I was wondering what you thought of the writer Yann Bijer. I read this short interview with him earlier today and found most of it fairly accessible for me: http://skolanemsav.canalblog.com/archiv ... 24660.html


never read any book written by him.
There are spelling mistakes in the transcription of the interview, and also a few things that haven't been transcribed properly (except if it's Yann Bijer who made the mistakes?)
He didn't understand the last question, a krennlavar is a proverb, and he answers with a motto.
He also uses a few coined words (that native speakers wouldn't understand nor create themselves).

I'll correct your sentences tomorrow... :)

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2013-11-07, 7:11

Ah, my old Breton thread!

I'm going to be reviewing my Breton, but instead of re-doing BBHA, I'll be using Colloquial Breton and Kervarker. Even though CB hs an answer key in the back, I'll be posting soe of the exercises so to give me an excuse to write stuff out. :wink:

So, let's get started! :woohoo:

(Skipping 1-1 through 1-3, since those are oral exercising)

1-4 - Definite articles, because Breton has three of 'em, plus mutations!

(I switched the genders of some these so to practice more mutations--note the suffix -ez indicates a female person)

an alvokad - the lawyer
an apotikerez - the chemist (female)
ar c'hazetenner (kazetenner) - the journalist
ar geginerez (keginerez) - the chef/cook (female)
ar c'helenner (kelenner) - the teacher
ar c'hemener (kemener) - the tailor
ar genwerzherez (kenwerzherez) - the tradeswoman
ar c'higer (kiger) - the chef/cook (male)
ar glañvdiourez (klañvdiourez) - nurse (female)
al labourer-douar - the farmer
ar martolod - the sailor
ar vedisinez (medisinez) - the doctor (female)
an noter - the notary
ar perc'henn - the owner
ar besketearez (pesketaerez) - the fisherwoman
ar poliser - the policeman
ar renerez - the manager (female)
ar sekretourez - the secretary (female)
ar skolaer - the primary school teacher (male)
ar skrivagner - the writer
ar soudard - the soldier
ar stalierez - the shopkeeper (female)

So, to re-cap what this is all about:

al before l-
an before n-, d-, t-, h- or a vowel
ar before anything else

Mutations:

All masculine nouns beginning with k- will mutate to c'h- after an article.
Soft mutation applies to all feminine nouns following an article:

p > b
t > d
k > g
b > v
d > z
g > c'h
gw > w
m > v

1-5

A. Piv oc'h?
B. C'hoar Padrig on.

A. Penaos emañ ar bed?
B. Mat-tre.

A. Who are you?
B. I'm Patrick's sister.

A. How are you?
B. Good.


1-6

A: Demat/Bonjour deoc'h. Penaos ar emañ bed ?
B: Mat-tre ha ganeoc'h?

A: Mat. Alan on ha c'hwi ?
B: Jakez on, breur Elen.

A: Hello. How are you?
B: Good and you?

A: Good. I'm Alan and you are?
B. I'm Jakez, Elen's brother.


1-7: Bezañ.

(a) Bihan eo Herve.
(b) Bras eo tad Herri.
(c) N'eo ket bras Nora ha n'eo ket bras Jakez;
bihan int.
(d) Bras eo ma c'hoar ha bras on-me ivez; bras omp.

(a) Herve is small.
(b) Harry's dadfather is big.
(c) Nora is not big and Jakez is not big; they are small.
(d) My sister is bras and I am big too; we are big.


I'll write up more about bezañ later.

1-8: Interrogatives

(a) Pelec'h emañ da dad?
(b) Pe liv eo karr da dad?
(c) Petra eo liv karr da dad?
(d) Petra eo anv da dad?

(a) Where is yous father?
(b) What color is your father's car?
(c) What is the color of your father's car?
(d) What is your father's name?


OK, that's all the exercises of Chapter 1. I'll need to re-read through the whole chapter one more time plus do some lessons in Kervarker.before moving on to Chapter 2.

Noz vat d'an holl!

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2013-11-11, 2:42

Ok, let's review some phonology and pronunciation!

Going to make a few notes here, mainly from ar kevrennoù Soniadouriezh (Phonology), kentelioù Kervarker 1-4, while I watch The Walking Dead. :lol:

Soft Liaison

- /t/ softens to a /d/ when it liaises with a vowel, as in mat eo or mat a-walc'h
- similarly, /s/ softens to a /z/, as in deus amañ ! or Penaos eo ?
- /k/ softens to /g/, as in yaouank eo.

A few unvoiced final consonants (but not the last!)


/z/ in ivez and trugarez, /ñ/ in amañ and /r/ in paotr are unvoiced.

Stress: Pronouncing Breton is not for the faint of heart!

Breton is strongly stressed, perhaps more than any of the other Celtic language. Stress usually falls on the penultimate syllable : ivez, trugarez, kentel, anv

Except when it doesn't, in which case it will mostly fall on the final syllable :

a-walc'h
avat
abred
bepred
evel
evit
fenoz
ganin
ganit
ganeoc'h
Itron
kenavo
pelec'h
penaos
warc'haozh

...and about 4 or 5 dozen other words.

The Breton /v/ is fun!


After vowels, a final /v/ will usually sound as /w/

brav = braw
liv = liw
tev = tew

After consonants, this /w/ becomes closer to /o/

lanv = lano
anv = ano
erv = ero

Similarly, /v/ becomes like /o/ when preceeding a final consonant

gavr = gaour
revr = reor
evn = ewon

The Breton /v/ is just as much fun when in a middle position, but I'll get into that later.

Ket

The pronunciation of the particle ket varies by position:

- a /t/ if final: N'ouzon ket !
- a /t/>/d/ soft liaison (ked) if followed by a vowel: N'eo ket ur paotr.
- the /t/ is unvoiced (keh) in followed by another consonant: N'eo ket gwin.

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby Zviezda » 2014-01-09, 14:02

Hello

Sorry for not answering before!

ar genwerzherez (kenwerzherez) - the tradeswoman
ar glañvdiourez (klañvdiourez) - nurse (female)
ar renerez - the manager (female)
ar stalierez - the shopkeeper (female)


the mutations are correct, however "kenwerzherez" and "klañvdiourez" are made-up words (people say "marc'hadourez" or "koñversantez", and "infirmierez").
I'm not sure "renerez" is used nor understood: people would use other words depending on the context.
Stalierez may not be used either, people would also say "koñversantez" our "marc'hadourez"

1-6

A: Demat/Bonjour deoc'h. Penaos ar emañ bed ?
B: Mat-tre ha ganeoc'h?


Boñjour deoc'h (demat isn't used). Penaos emañ ar bed ?

A: Mat. Alan on ha c'hwi ?
B: Jakez on, breur Elen.

A: Hello. How are you?
B: Good and you?

A: Good. I'm Alan and you are?
B. I'm Jakez, Elen's brother.


not sure people would say "Alan on" or "Jakez on", but rather "Me eo Alan", "Me eo Jakez".



1-8: Interrogatives

(a) Pelec'h emañ da dad?
(b) Pe liv eo karr da dad?
(c) Petra eo liv karr da dad?
(d) Petra eo anv da dad?


ok ; however I don't think people would say "pe liv": rather "peseurt liv".
Normally "karr" is a cart, a car is "karr-tan" or "oto".



A few unvoiced final consonants (but not the last!)

/z/ in ivez and trugarez, /ñ/ in amañ and /r/ in paotr are unvoiced.


to me "unvoiced" means the sound becomes devoiced ie. z becomes s etc. But in these words, the final consonants aren't pronounced at all.
Ivez is "ive"
trugarez is "trugare" (but most native speakers say "mersi (bras) deoc'h")
amañ -> the ñ shows the last a is nasalised, the ñ itself isn't pronounced
paotr: normally the r isn't pronounced. The word is pronounced "pôt".

Similarly, /v/ becomes like /o/ when preceeding a final consonant

gavr = gaour
revr = reor
evn = ewon


depends on the dialect actually (many places pronounce "revr" like "rêr") but these pronunciations do exist indeed.

Ket

The pronunciation of the particle ket varies by position:

- a /t/ if final: N'ouzon ket !
- a /t/>/d/ soft liaison (ked) if followed by a vowel: N'eo ket ur paotr.
- the /t/ is unvoiced (keh) in followed by another consonant: N'eo ket gwin.


yes and this is also true for most words that end with -et and -ed, in most cases.

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2014-01-10, 15:12

Mersi bras deoc'h, Zveizda. I'm happy to hear from you again. (I am not sure how to say something like that in Brezhoneg.)

Most of this comes from Colloquial Breton and the first Oulpan book. The pronunciation in the Oulpan book, I think, only covers one particular dialect.

I'll be resuming my Breton studies in a couple of weeks, so I'll post more soon. :D

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2014-01-28, 16:29

I've started reading some children's books, so I hope Zviezda will stop by to help me out here.

First couple of questions I have from my reading:

"Ret eo" is like "il faut", yes? And "Ret eo dit" would be in English "You need to/It is necessary that you", right? And so to say "Il me faut" it would be "Ret eo din"?

"N'hallo ket <un den> dont d'ar gêr" -- OK, so this is gallout in 3rd, person future tense, mutated by ne + dont, yes? And this means <a person> might/may not being coming to the house?

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby Zviezda » 2014-01-30, 16:23

"Ret eo" is like "il faut", yes?


yes

And "Ret eo dit" would be in English "You need to/It is necessary that you", right?


yes, or you must, you have to...

And so to say "Il me faut" it would be "Ret eo din"?


il me faut, in the meaning "I have to, I must" + verb

"N'hallo ket <un den> dont d'ar gêr" -- OK, so this is gallout in 3rd, person future tense, mutated by ne + dont, yes?


yes. Exceptionally, g changes to h after n' (only in this verb) ; with other verbs g changes to c'h in writing. Actually it is also possible to say and write "ne c'hallo ket", it's just like "n'hallo ket".

And this means <a person> might/may not being coming to the house?


or "a person/one won't be able to come home. "ar gêr" is "(the) home". D'ar gêr = home(wards), er gêr/bar gêr = at home, etc.

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Re: ceid donn - Brezhoneg

Postby ceid donn » 2014-01-31, 4:51

Mersi bras, Zviezda! :)

So with ret eo da..., this construction is correct? : Ret eo din mont d'ar stal hiziv

OK, a few more questions from my reading:

Poent eo... essentially means "it is time to...", right?

Poent eo klask ma dilhad > It is time to gather/collect my clothes

****

Oc'h evañ dour > here the verb form is the present participle
En un evañ dour > here it is a gerund, right?

So:

Gwelet em eus ur marc'h oc'h evañ dour > I saw a horse (that was) drinking water
Gwelet em eus ur marc'h en un evañ dour > I saw a horse while I was drinking water

I'm basing these two sentences of what is given in Colloquial Breton but that book doesn't really give a clear explanation, so I want to make I'm understanding this correctly. I see the o/oc'h + verb form a lot in reading, but the en un/ul/ur + verb form much less, at least in the things I've been trying to read.

****

What are the differences with a-nevez, adarre and c'hoazh? I also came across dija--is that commonly used?


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