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Old-yet-still-learnable languages - Page 2 - UniLang

Old-yet-still-learnable languages

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Lur
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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby Lur » 2013-01-24, 7:16

I'm looking at the learnable languages and it makes me wish there were wikipedias written on them. I think there's Latin, Sanskrit, Old English (with articles in Futhark :D), and a opened one in Gothic with few articles. Imagine a Middle Egyptian wikipedia (we wouldn't really need vowels?) with options to change articles between Hieroglyphic and Hieratic, an Akkadian wikipedia... I think they rejected an Ancient Greek wikipedia because they couldn't decide on the dialect and some other stupid reasons :x
Last edited by Lur on 2013-01-24, 7:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby Lauren » 2013-01-24, 7:27

Learn Akkadian with me and we could start one! :D

I really want to learn Akkadian, but am having trouble getting motivated with it.

EDIT: Hmm, it seems we couldn't make one. :( Read the "Other discussion" on this page.

We could make an off-site one though, like what Prussian has. Ours wouldn't look messed up though. :P ;)
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Lur
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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby Lur » 2013-01-24, 7:58

Lowena wrote:Learn Akkadian with me and we could start one! :D

I really want to learn Akkadian, but am having trouble getting motivated with it.

That would be awesome but I'd be pressing my luck right now. I found Huehnergard's A Grammar of Akkadian on the Internet (the second edition, I want to find the third one) but I supposedly have to concentrate on others (though I might suddenly change my mind, knowing myself).

Lowena wrote:EDIT: Hmm, it seems we couldn't make one. :( Read the "Other discussion" on this page.

Native speakers? There are wikipedias in artificial languages, Latin, Sanskrit, Old English, Gothic, and not to mention the wikipedias in most small languages are written by non-native speakers anyway. Even having native speakers doesn't guarantee anything, I've encountered countless articles on the English and Spanish wiki written like crap.

And they also justify Greek by its importance (which I agree with), but then ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt would have to get a wikipedia too :P

Lowena wrote:We could make an off-site one though, like what Prussian has. Ours wouldn't look messed up though. :P ;)

You're getting carried away, I only know the case endings, a few words and how to write dingir in cuneiform :lol:

Old Babylonian? Standard Babylonian? :P

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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby Lauren » 2013-01-24, 8:07

Standard of course. 8-) Let's do it! :mrgreen:

I'm a programmer, so I could do the website, and we could both write articles. ;)

Have you heard of Lingua Latina by Hans Orberg? For practice, I translated the first chapter or two into Prussian awhile back. I was thinking of doing the same for Akkadian. If you haven't heard of it, it starts out really easy, and introduces grammar bit by bit, with Latin as the source and target language. No English (or any language besides Latin) whatsoever. It's meant to be used with a dictionary, but those are easy to find for Latin. But I digress...

Yeah, we could do that, then turn that into a course for learning Akkadian! :partyhat: You in? I'll PM you and send you all the Akkadian PDFs I have.
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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby Sol Invictus » 2013-01-24, 21:16

Luke wrote:Native speakers? There are wikipedias in artificial languages, Latin, Sanskrit, Old English, Gothic, and not to mention the wikipedias in most small languages are written by non-native speakers anyway. Even having native speakers doesn't guarantee anything, I've encountered countless articles on the English and Spanish wiki written like crap.

Wikipedia changed rules few years ago so now you can only have it in living language or conlang with large community, but they didn't close those that already existed, plus apparently you can still make test project in any language you please at http://incubator.wikimedia.org

P.S. BTW I find listing Prussian as old, but learnable highly questionable - the (re)constructed New Prussian is learnable, but there are very few texts in actual Old Prussian, which makes for extremely limited vocabulary highly influenced by German and in different dialects
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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby Lauren » 2013-01-26, 6:36

Well that's good, that you can still make an Incubator for a dead language. :) That's better than making my own website.

I'm still trying to decide which ACEL I want to study... I'm now looking at Gothic, Old French, and Old Norse (in no particular order).
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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby johnklepac » 2013-01-29, 23:35

Where would Aramaic fit on this list?

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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby księżycowy » 2013-01-30, 17:21

I was wondering the same thing. I'm not sure how much is written in Aramaic. I know that for Biblical Aramaic there isn't much.
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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby ceid donn » 2013-02-05, 14:54

No, there is not much in the way of extent Aramaic texts. Aramaic thrived when the Jewish world was becoming more and more Hellenized, and thus, as you would expect, it only lived a very short life as a literary language, quickly being replaced by Greek. This is why in grad school, although the theological part of my phil/theo degree plan was focused on Biblical studies, I wasn't required to study Aramaic. Aramaic is something only a particular niche of Bible scholars have devoted time to being specialized in, because its use in Biblical research is pretty limited. If you need to know something about Aramaic you'd just look to those people's research rather than spending a good chunk of your time getting specialized in it yourself.

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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby Itikar » 2013-02-05, 16:26

I would say Sumerian should be on the fence.
Of course there are many doubts and uncertainties, but also, as stated by others, a lot of material and grammars. Not bad for a very old language with no living relatives.
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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby linguoboy » 2013-02-05, 16:31

ceid donn wrote:No, there is not much in the way of extent Aramaic texts. Aramaic thrived when the Jewish world was becoming more and more Hellenized, and thus, as you would expect, it only lived a very short life as a literary language, quickly being replaced by Greek.

You're talking here just about Biblical Aramaic, correct? Because Aramaic was the administrative language for the Persian Empire for three-quarters of a millennium, which is how it came to be the lingua franca of the ancient Levant (and beyond) in the first place. Do you mean to tell me nothing at all remains from that period?
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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby księżycowy » 2013-02-05, 17:22

Learnable languages:
Ancient Egyptian (stages?) (?) -> Coptic
Akkadian (Akkadian -> Babylonian/Assyrian)
Eblaite (?)
Classical Arabic
Ge'ez
Classical Syriac
Biblical/Classical Hebrew
Ancient Greek/Koine Greek
Latin
Old Galician/Old Portuguese
Old Leonese
Old Castilian
Old Aragonese
Old Occitan/Provençal
Old Catalan (splits from Occitan at some point)
Old French-> Middle French
Old Irish -> Middle Irish
Old Norse (Old Icelandic)
Old English -> Middle English
Old High German -> Middle High German
Old Church Slavonic/ Old Bulgarian
Sanskrit
Middle Persian
Pali/Prakrit
Avestan
Classical Chinese
Classical Tibetan
Classical Japanese
Old Tamil -> Middle Tamil
Ottoman Turkish

On the fence:
Gothic
Hittite
Sogdian
Old Persian
Sumerian
Prussian
Ugaritic
Umbrian/Oscan

Not-learnable:
Etruscan
Gaulish, Lepontic, Galatian
Noric
Primitive Irish
Celtiberian, Astur, Galaic, etc
Lusitanian
Tartessian
Iberian
Phoenician
Moabite
Elamite
Hurrian/Urartian
Tocharian A/B
Hattic
Phrygian
Ammonite
North Picene
South Picene
Venetic
Messapian
Lydian
Lycian
Sidetic
Pisidian
Carian
Thracian
Volscian
Meroitic
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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby Ciarán12 » 2013-02-08, 23:38

I was wondering where Yola might go on this list. Like I said in the Yola thread, I'm not all that knowledgeable about it, but from what I can see maybe it should go in the "on the fence" section. Somthing which I think there is little doubt about is that Fingalian should go in the "not learnable" section.

Edit: I also don't see Norn up there. It'd go under the "not learnable" part too.
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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby Limagne » 2013-03-09, 15:53

We had forgotten Chagatai.

Ancient Egyptian (stages?) (?) -> Coptic
Akkadian (Akkadian -> Babylonian/Assyrian)
Eblaite (?)
Classical Arabic
Ge'ez
Classical Syriac
Biblical/Classical Hebrew
Ancient Greek/Koine Greek
Latin
Old Galician/Old Portuguese
Old Leonese
Old Castilian
Old Aragonese
Old Occitan/Provençal
Old Catalan (splits from Occitan at some point)
Old French-> Middle French
Old Irish -> Middle Irish
Old Norse (Old Icelandic)
Old English -> Middle English
Old High German -> Middle High German
Old Church Slavonic/ Old Bulgarian
Sanskrit
Middle Persian
Pali/Prakrit
Avestan
Classical Chinese
Classical Tibetan
Classical Japanese
Old Tamil -> Middle Tamil
Ottoman Turkish
Chagatai

On the fence:
Gothic
Hittite
Sogdian
Old Persian
Sumerian
Prussian
Ugaritic
Umbrian/Oscan

Not-learnable:
Etruscan
Gaulish, Lepontic, Galatian
Noric
Primitive Irish
Celtiberian, Astur, Galaic, etc
Lusitanian
Tartessian
Iberian
Phoenician
Moabite
Elamite
Hurrian/Urartian
Tocharian A/B
Hattic
Phrygian
Ammonite
North Picene
South Picene
Venetic
Messapian
Lydian
Lycian
Sidetic
Pisidian
Carian
Thracian
Volscian
Meroitic[/quote]

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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby księżycowy » 2013-03-09, 16:38

I don't believe I see Ciarán's suggestions on the list. Since it's on the fence for it's position, that's where I'll put Yola on the list. :wink:

Learnable:
Ancient Egyptian (stages?) (?) -> Coptic
Akkadian (Akkadian -> Babylonian/Assyrian)
Eblaite (?)
Classical Arabic
Ge'ez
Classical Syriac
Biblical/Classical Hebrew
Ancient Greek/Koine Greek
Latin
Old Galician/Old Portuguese
Old Leonese
Old Castilian
Old Aragonese
Old Occitan/Provençal
Old Catalan (splits from Occitan at some point)
Old French-> Middle French
Old Irish -> Middle Irish
Old Norse (Old Icelandic)
Old English -> Middle English
Old High German -> Middle High German
Old Church Slavonic/ Old Bulgarian
Sanskrit
Middle Persian
Pali/Prakrit
Avestan
Classical Chinese
Classical Tibetan
Classical Japanese
Old Tamil -> Middle Tamil
Ottoman Turkish
Chagatai

On the fence:
Gothic
Hittite
Sogdian
Old Persian
Sumerian
Prussian
Ugaritic
Umbrian/Oscan
Yola

Not-learnable:
Etruscan
Gaulish, Lepontic, Galatian
Noric
Primitive Irish
Celtiberian, Astur, Galaic, etc
Lusitanian
Tartessian
Iberian
Phoenician
Moabite
Elamite
Hurrian/Urartian
Tocharian A/B
Hattic
Phrygian
Ammonite
North Picene
South Picene
Venetic
Messapian
Lydian
Lycian
Sidetic
Pisidian
Carian
Thracian
Volscian
Meroitic
Norn
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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby eien » 2013-03-11, 2:31

If we're trying to make it comprehensive, this list may be useful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l ... n_accounts

I believe Old Armenian and Georgian are both learnable to a satisfactory degree.

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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby Lur » 2013-04-08, 20:13

Learnable:
Ancient Egyptian (stages?) (?) -> Coptic
Akkadian (Akkadian -> Babylonian/Assyrian)
Eblaite (?)
Classical Arabic
Ge'ez
Classical Syriac
Biblical/Classical Hebrew
Ancient Greek/Koine Greek
Latin
Old Galician/Old Portuguese
Old Leonese
Old Castilian
Old Aragonese
Old Occitan/Provençal
Old Catalan (splits from Occitan at some point)
Old French-> Middle French
Old Welsh -> Middle Welsh
Old Irish -> Middle Irish
Old Norse (Old Icelandic)
Old English -> Middle English
Old High German -> Middle High German
Old Church Slavonic/ Old Bulgarian
Sanskrit
Middle Persian
Pali/Prakrit
Avestan
Classical Chinese
Classical Tibetan
Classical Japanese
Old Tamil -> Middle Tamil
Ottoman Turkish
Chagatai

On the fence:
Gothic
Hittite
Sogdian
Old Persian
Sumerian
Prussian
Ugaritic
Umbrian/Oscan
Yola

Not-learnable:
Etruscan
Gaulish, Lepontic, Galatian
Noric
Primitive Irish
Celtiberian, Astur, Galaic, etc
Lusitanian
Tartessian
Iberian
Phoenician
Moabite
Elamite
Hurrian/Urartian
Tocharian A/B
Hattic
Phrygian
Ammonite
North Picene
South Picene
Venetic
Messapian
Lydian
Lycian
Sidetic
Pisidian
Carian
Thracian
Volscian
Meroitic
Norn

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księżycowy
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Posts: 7603
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Real Name: Paweł
Gender: male
Location: Rochester
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Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby księżycowy » 2013-04-08, 21:15

Having a hard time figuring out what you did to the list, Luke. :lol:
And Tocharian is much more learnable then people think. It shouldn't go on the "Learnable" list, but it surely deserves a spot on "On-the-Fence." I mean there are lessons from the U of Austin online.(Romanized though they might be.)


Learnable:
Ancient Egyptian (stages?) (?) -> Coptic
Akkadian (Akkadian -> Babylonian/Assyrian)
Eblaite (?)
Classical Arabic
Ge'ez
Classical Syriac
Biblical/Classical Hebrew
Ancient Greek/Koine Greek
Latin
Old Galician/Old Portuguese
Old Leonese
Old Castilian
Old Aragonese
Old Occitan/Provençal
Old Catalan (splits from Occitan at some point)
Old French-> Middle French
Old Welsh -> Middle Welsh
Old Irish -> Middle Irish
Old Norse (Old Icelandic)
Old English -> Middle English
Old High German -> Middle High German
Old Church Slavonic/ Old Bulgarian
Sanskrit
Middle Persian
Pali/Prakrit
Avestan
Classical Chinese
Classical Tibetan
Classical Japanese
Old Tamil -> Middle Tamil
Ottoman Turkish
Chagatai

On the fence:
Gothic
Hittite
Sogdian
Old Persian
Sumerian
Prussian
Ugaritic
Umbrian/Oscan
Yola
Tocharian A/B

Not-learnable:
Etruscan
Gaulish, Lepontic, Galatian
Noric
Primitive Irish
Celtiberian, Astur, Galaic, etc
Lusitanian
Tartessian
Iberian
Phoenician
Moabite
Elamite
Hurrian/Urartian
Hattic
Phrygian
Ammonite
North Picene
South Picene
Venetic
Messapian
Lydian
Lycian
Sidetic
Pisidian
Carian
Thracian
Volscian
Meroitic
Norn[/quote]
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Lur
Posts: 2436
Joined: 2012-04-15, 23:22
Real Name: V.
Location: Al-Andalus

Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby Lur » 2013-04-09, 1:31

księżycowy wrote:Having a hard time figuring out what you did to the list, Luke. :lol:

I added Welsh :lol: And now Cornish and some stuff.

Learnable:
Middle Egyptian (no vowels) -> Coptic
Old Akkadian (pre sargonic -> sargonic -> Ur III) (????) ->
-> Old Babylonian, Middle, New, Late; Standard Babylonian
-> Old Assyrian -> Middle Assyrian -> New Assyrian
Eblaite (?)
Classical Arabic
Ge'ez
Classical Syriac
Biblical/Classical Hebrew
Ancient Greek/Koine Greek
Latin
Old Galician/Old Portuguese
Old Leonese
Old Castilian
Old Aragonese
Old Occitan/Provençal
Old Catalan (splits from Occitan at some point)
Old French-> Middle French
Old Welsh -> Middle Welsh
Middle Cornish
Old Irish -> Middle Irish
Old Norse (Old Icelandic)
Old English -> Middle English
Old High German -> Middle High German
Old Church Slavonic/ Old Bulgarian
Sanskrit
Middle Persian
Pali/Prakrit
Avestan
Classical Chinese
Classical Tibetan
Classical Japanese
Old Tamil -> Middle Tamil
Ottoman Turkish
Chagatai

On the fence:
Gothic
Hittite
Sogdian
Old Persian
Sumerian
Prussian
Ugaritic
Umbrian/Oscan
Yola
Tocharian A/B

Not-learnable:
Etruscan
Gaulish, Lepontic, Galatian
Noric
Primitive Irish
Celtiberian, Astur, Galaic, etc
Lusitanian
Tartessian
Iberian
Phoenician
Moabite
Elamite
Hurrian/Urartian
Hattic
Phrygian
Ammonite
North Picene
South Picene
Venetic
Messapian
Lydian
Lycian
Sidetic
Pisidian
Carian
Thracian
Volscian
Meroitic
Norn

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mōdgethanc
Posts: 8888
Joined: 2010-03-20, 5:27
Real Name: Alex K.
Gender: male
Location: Toronto
Country: CA Canada (Canada)

Re: Old-yet-still-learnable languages

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-04-09, 6:42

I think Classical Chinese should be "on the fence". You can learn how to read it, yeah, but the historical pronunciation is unknown and has to be reconstructed. Same with Egyptian.

With Gothic, on the other hand, we may only have one book in it but at least know how the damn language was pronounced.


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