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Avar (МагIарул мацI) - UniLang

Avar (МагIарул мацI)

Any language which does not have a specific forum can have a thread made for it here.
zhiguli
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Avar (МагIарул мацI)

Postby zhiguli » 2006-07-27, 21:31


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Alcadras
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Postby Alcadras » 2006-07-27, 21:35

Russian scripts and the azan?

Rusça yazılar ve ezan?

zhiguli
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Postby zhiguli » 2006-07-28, 8:49

Alcadras wrote:Russian scripts and the azan?

Rusça yazılar ve ezan?


indeed, there are muslims in russia))
here's something a little less religious (and more educational):
http://sprachen.sprachsignale.de/awarisch/awarisch.html

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Nukalurk
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Postby Nukalurk » 2006-07-28, 9:15

This page is indeed much more helpful. :)

Seems to be quite difficult to speak. :shock:

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Postby zhiguli » 2006-08-25, 5:46

It does seem that way. One consolation is that Avar grammar is quite simple in comparison to other Caucasian languages like Chechen/Georgian/Circassian.
I was going to write some lessons but, given the lack of interest and a native speaker to make corrections, decided it was pointless. Instead, I'll keep posting more material to the wiki and use this forum for taking notes.
I'll be concentrating more on grammar here, those who want to learn a few simple phrases can refer to the phrasebook i'm adding to the wiki.
A little about Avar:
-It belongs to the North Caucasian/Nakh-Dagestani family of languages. It may be distantly related to Northwest Caucasian but otherwise, there is no proven connection to any other language family in the world, though attempts have been made to link it to the Na-Dene languages of North America (which do seem to share some similarities in their phonology).
-It's one of the half-dozen odd official literary languages in the republic of Dagestan, and the most widely spoken of these languages (apart from Russian).
-The republic of Dagestan is said to be one of the most linguistically diverse regions on the planet. About 30 languages (not including the numerous dialect forms) are spoken. While Russian is the main lingua franca, Avar is also used for communication between related ethnic groups. with so many languages being spoken on such a small piece of land, it's not uncommon to find Dagestanis who speak 4 or more languages.
-It has been written since the 17th century, using an Arabic-based alphabet. Nowadays it's written in Cyrillic but it's always been more of a spoken language than a written one, and even fluent speakers are sometimes not fully literate in standard Avar. This can be partly blamed on the rather poor status it (and other indigenous languages) has in the school system, where Russian and other "world languages" are given priority.
-Avar has many spoken dialects which can be roughly divided into northern (which are closer to the literary language) and southern groups, which are not mutually intelligible.
-Just like many minority languages of the former USSR, Avar has borrowed many common words from Russian: учитель, teacher, студент university student, школа school, стол table, автобус bus, etc. There are also many loans from Persian/Arabic, especially theological/religious and scientific/technical terms: аллагь الله Allah, дин دين religion, рухI روح soul, гIелму علم science, дуниял دنیا world, имтахIан امتحان exam, дарс درس lesson, шагьар شهر etc. Loans from Turkic languages (mainly via Kumyk) and Georgian are also present in smaller numbers.

The alphabet:
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/avar.htm
Literary Avar is pronounced more or less as it is written. The only thing to be aware of is the stress, which usually falls on the first or second syllable but is quite irregular and can shift on different forms of the same word (plurals or when cases are added). Another thing to watch out for are the double consonants - which aren't really pronounced double, but more forcefully than their single counterparts.

Pronouns:
Дун - I
Мун - you (singular)
Ниж, нилъ - we
нуж - you (plural)
дов - he
дой - she
доб - it
дол - they

Unlike many common languages, Avar does not have a polite singular. "мун" is used to address all people regardless of age or social standing.
You'll also notice there are two words for "we" - the first excludes the person being spoken to ("we without you") while the second includes it ("we with you").
For the third person, the same root до- is used. the different endings are the four class markers that exist in avar:
в for male humans
й for females
б for things and animals
р/л for plurals of all of the above.
the class markers perform a function similar to the genders of indo-european languages, but in avar it's much, much simpler. the gender of a word is determined quite logically - в always refers to male humans, й to female humans, etc. the only notable exception is the word лъимер "child", which belongs to the neuter class б. making other words agree in gender is also quite simple - simply by putting the class marker in the appropriate part of a word. nouns are notable for their lack of a class marker (apart from some nouns referring to people like вас - boy, яс (йас) girl, вац brother, яц sister) but nearly all other types of word can take class affixes.

the verb букIине "to be"
as in many languages, this one is irregular. the present tense goes like this:
вуго (в class)
йиго (й class)
буго (б class)
руго (л class - р is usually used at the beginning of a word)

The past and future tenses, however, are more regular.
past tense:
вукIана, йикIана, букIана, рукIана
future:
вукIина, йикIина, букIина, рукIина

as you can see, the different tenses are formed by changing the medial vowel. how it changes depends on the ending in the infinitive (-изе/-ине/-азе etc) and other factors. altogether there are about 8 conjugation paradigms.

by learning a few extra words, you can now make simple sentences like:

дун магIарулав вуго i (male) am an avar.
мун магIарулай йиго you (female) are an avar.
доб лъимер буго it is a child.
дол лъимал руго they are children.

since avar uses case endings and class markers to show agreement, word order is quite free, but the normal word order is s-o-v or less commonly, s-v-o.

question words:

щив/щий - who?
щиб - what? (sing.)
щал - what? (pl.)
кив/кий/киб/кир where?
щай - why?
кида - when?
кин - how?

the class markers in the words щиб and киб are doing double duty as locative case-endings, this will be discussed in a future post.

Дов кив вугев? Where is he?
Дой кий йигей? Where is she?
Доб киб бугеб? Where is it?
Дол кир ругел? Where are they?

as you can see, the verb "to be" changes slightly and takes another case marker. one of the purposes of this change is to form questions when a question word is part of the sentence. if there is no question word, the suffix -ищ is used (more about this later).

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Postby zhiguli » 2006-09-12, 3:59

Genitive case of pronouns

дун i дир my
мун you дур your
нилъ we (incl.) нилъер
ниж we (excl.) нижер
нуж you (pl.) нужер

Дир учитель лъикIав вуго my (male) teacher is good
Дур гьудул квешай йиго your (female) friend is bad

Possession
This is formed in a way similar to Hungarian, Turkish, etc. Instead of saying "I have X", you say "My X is":
Дир кIудияб рукъ буго. I have a big house (lit. My big house is)
Чан сон бугеб дур How old are you? (lit. how-many year are yours?)

Demonstrative pronouns

гьа-б (-в/-й/-л) this (near the first person)
гье-б this/that (near the second person)
до-б (farther away)
щи-б? what?

The class markers must naturally agree with their "subject":

Гьав дир эмен вуго This is my father
Дой дир яц йиго That is my sister

The demonstrative pronouns can also be used as adjectives:
Гьаб чу берцинаб буго This horse is beautiful

there are other pronouns which give more specific spatial relations:

лъо-б that (above)
до-б that (on the same level)
го-б that (below)

Here, there, where

Гьани-б (-в, -й, -р) here
Гьени-б here/there (further away)
До-б-а there
Ки-б where?

Кив вугев? Where are you? (asking a male)
Кий йигей? Where are you (female)

Adding case endings:

Гьани-б-е to here "hither"
Гьени-б-е to here/there
До-б-е to there "thither"
Ки-б-е to where "whither"

Гьаниве вачIа Come here (male)
Гьание ячIа Come here (female)
Чу гьанибе бачIана The horse came here

Гьани-са from here "hence"
Гьени-са
До-б-аса from there "thence"
Ки-са from where "whence"

Мун киса? Where are you from?

Plurals
There are many plural suffixes in Avar.
The most common are

-ал:
квер hand кверал hands
лъар river лъарал rivers
стол table столал tables
вац brother вацал brothers
after vowels a buffer consonant (й) is added:
къо day къоял (къо-й-ал)
чу horse чуял
кьо bridge кьоял
ци bear циял

-(а)би:
маргьа story, tale маргьаби
школа school школаби
ца tooth цаби
росу aul (mountain village) росаби
чугIа fish чугIби
nouns ending in -ен drop this and add -аби:
босен bed босаби
курхьен bracelet курхьаби
рехъен flock рехъаби
this is also a common suffix for names of professions or occupations formed from verbs and ending in хъан:
цIалдохъан (school) student (from the verb цIализе to read) цIалдохъаби
хIалтIухъан worker (хIалтIизе - to work) хIалтIухъаби

The suffix -заби is used with names of professions and people:
устар master устарзаби
учитель teacher учительзаби
as well as kinship terms ending in -гIал:
яцгIал (female) cousin яцгIалзаби
гьудул friend гьудулзаби
гIалим scholar гIалимзаби
мадугьал neighbour мадугьалзаби
малаик angel малаикзаби

Other suffixes include -зал:
хур field хурзал
рукъ house рукъзал
нугI witness нугIзал

-дул:
гIин ear гIундул
гIер pole гIурдул
кечI song, lyric кучIдул
цер fox цурдул
тIегь flower тIугьдул

-ул:
бетIер head бутIрул
мегIер mountain мугIрул

-и:
хIинчI bird хIанчIи
гIака cow гIачи
тIинчI chick тIанчIи

as can be seen from the examples above, adding plural suffixes can cause shifts in root vowels/deletion of final vowels and other changes. some more examples:

бече calf бачал
хIетIе leg хIатIал
тIехь book тIахьал
гьоко (ox-drawn) cart гьакал
кето cat кутул
чед bread чадал
гъветI tree гъутIби
хабар piece of news харбал news

take note of the following common words and their plurals:

чIужу woman руччаби
чи man/person чагIи
эбел mother улбул
эмен father умумул

plurals in avar are quite irregular and there are very few clear rules as to which kind of noun gets which kind of suffix, or what happens to that noun as a result of taking a suffix. each plural must be learned separately.
similar changes can happen when adding case endings. fortunately, there is only one oblique form for each noun, and once you know this you can add any other case ending without any further changes.

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Postby allemaalmeezinge » 2006-09-14, 6:33

Interesting to read your notes, Zhiguli. Thanks

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Postby zhiguli » 2006-09-15, 4:07

And thanks for letting me know that someone actually reads this thread (even if you really don't...)

Here's a cheesy Avar song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-dO8nOAUy4

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-09-15, 4:49

zhiguli wrote:And thanks for letting me know that someone actually reads this thread (even if you really don't...)

Here's a cheesy Avar song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-dO8nOAUy4


Ворч ами! Zhiguli! I'm just writing to let you know thta I also read your thread - I've been looking at it since you started it but I don't have too much of an interest in learning it myself- so there isn't much for me to say... :oops: You've definitely turned me on to
Azeri though. :wink: And just as you told me about the armenian, just because it seems that no one is interested now, doesn'T indicate that this will always be the case. :wink: Finally, that song was soooo gay - I loved it. :gay: :wink:
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Postby zhiguli » 2006-09-15, 5:35

avar does have quite a few cognates with persian/arabic/turkic (i discover new ones every day), but i don't suppose that's enough to entice you. but thanks for your support all the same (yes! let's up the post count!)
another hit song from sabina "дуца ахIе": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTm1tCc689U

as for armenian...well...i think having a forum of its own, that people actually participate in, speaks to the fact that people *are* interested in the language...even if they need someone to spoon-feed it to them :wink:

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-09-15, 5:39

zhiguli wrote:avar does have quite a few cognates with persian/arabic/turkic (i discover new ones every day), but i don't suppose that's enough to entice you. but thanks for your support all the same


Can I have a few brief examples or an explanation of this? I would be glad to learn this language on the condition that I be given a few more hours each day... :lol: it seems that there are almost never enough hours in the day to learn... :? Oh well...I will glean from this thread whatever i can. :wink:
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Postby zhiguli » 2006-09-15, 6:40

so i cheated a little and used a dictionary, but i didn't have to look very hard for these:

хIайван حیوان animal
тIабигIат طبیعت nature
гIелму علم science
адаб ادب manners, politeness
адабият ادبیات literature
гIадат عادت habit custom
дин دین religion
иман ایمان belief faith
гIумру عمر life
гIишкъу عشق love
рухI روح soul
хIурмат حرمت respect honour
хасият خاصیت characteristic, property (also means "mood" in avar)
хIал حال (щиб хIал бугеб? حالت چطوره) condition
жинс جنس kind
ишара اشاره sign, mark
аслу اصل origin, essence
пикру فکر thought idea
инсан انسان man
гIадан آدم man
пакъир فقیر poor man
паччахI پادشاه king
лазат لذت pleasure
кеп کیف pleasure, the high you get from drinking/drugs (?)
къурбан قربان sacrifice
хIисаб حساب account
алат آلت instrument, tool
тукен دکان shop
кумек کمک help
сагIат ساعت hour, watch
мискин مسكين poor wretched
захIмат زحمت trouble
сабру صبر patience
рахIму, рахIмат رحمت mercy, pity
сапар سفر travel
магIна معنی meaning
хиял خیال daydream, wish
гIайиб عیب disgrace shame
хабар خبر news (харбал اخبار?)
суал سوال question
жаваб جواب answer
гъалатI غلط mistake
хIарп حرف letter
хатI خط handwriting
къалам قلم pen
ахIмакъ احمق fool idiot
гIабдал آبدال idiot fool (turkish = aptal)

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Postby zhiguli » 2006-09-15, 6:50

ajam (гIажам عجم), the arabic alphabet that avar used to be written in (first column):

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Postby Soassae » 2006-09-15, 10:18

zhiguli wrote:And thanks for letting me know that someone actually reads this thread (even if you really don't...)


Oh, I have read your notes too. Sorry, I should have given some sign: your notes are always interesting.

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Postby Sisyphe » 2006-09-15, 21:00

zhiguli wrote:so i cheated a little and used a dictionary, but i didn't have to look very hard for these:

хIайван حیوان animal
тIабигIат طبیعت nature
гIелму علم science
адаб ادب manners, politeness
адабият ادبیات literature
гIадат عادت habit custom
дин دین religion
иман ایمان belief faith
гIумру عمر life
гIишкъу عشق love
рухI روح soul
хIурмат حرمت respect honour
хасият خاصیت characteristic, property (also means "mood" in avar)
хIал حال (щиб хIал бугеб? حالت چطوره) condition
жинс جنس kind
ишара اشاره sign, mark
аслу اصل origin, essence
пикру فکر thought idea
инсан انسان man
гIадан آدم man
пакъир فقیر poor man
паччахI پادشاه king
лазат لذت pleasure
кеп کیف pleasure, the high you get from drinking/drugs (?)
къурбан قربان sacrifice
хIисаб حساب account
алат آلت instrument, tool
тукен دکان shop
кумек کمک help
сагIат ساعت hour, watch
мискин مسكين poor wretched
захIмат زحمت trouble
сабру صبر patience
рахIму, рахIмат رحمت mercy, pity
сапар سفر travel
магIна معنی meaning
хиял خیال daydream, wish
гIайиб عیب disgrace shame
хабар خبر news (харбал اخبار?)
суал سوال question
жаваб جواب answer
гъалатI غلط mistake
хIарп حرف letter
хатI خط handwriting
къалам قلم pen
ахIмакъ احمق fool idiot
гIабдал آبدال idiot fool (turkish = aptal)


Wow! I never realized Avar had so many cognates with Persian/Turkish/Arabic! It doesn't mean that I will learn it unfortunately...but I'm definetely reading what you post here with more attention. :wink:
Actively learning: ImageImageOn the back burner but in love with:ImageImage A life-long endeavor: Image

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Postby zhiguli » 2006-09-16, 9:07

pufi wrote:Oh, I have read your notes too. Sorry, I should have given some sign: your notes are always interesting.


oh that's fine. i knew it wasn't just me responsible for so many views)) thanks for the thumbs up.
how is your belarusian coming along, by the way?

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Postby księżycowy » 2006-09-16, 20:31

zhiguli wrote:I was going to write some lessons but, given the lack of interest and a native speaker to make corrections, decided it was pointless.

But perhaps we could still get some tranlslations of some of the sites that offer lessons on
Avar. At least it's a idea. 8)

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Postby zhiguli » 2006-09-17, 22:57

księżycowy wrote:
zhiguli wrote:I was going to write some lessons but, given the lack of interest and a native speaker to make corrections, decided it was pointless.

But perhaps we could still get some tranlslations of some of the sites that offer lessons on
Avar. At least it's a idea. 8)


except that there's only one, it's in german, and it only has 3 lessons so far..

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Postby Soassae » 2006-09-18, 7:53

zhiguli wrote:how is your belarusian coming along, by the way?


Ehi, you still remember! :P
Well, I have a lot of material about the Belarussian language: two grammars, a dictionary, a conversation manual, some children stories and pieces of literature (including texts by Ivan Melezh, one of the most famous recent Belarussian writers). I would start a thread about Belarussian, if I weren't too lazy and too unskilled. Anyway I try not to lose contact with this language by refreshing grammar and conversation from time to time, but I lack practise, of course.

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Postby księżycowy » 2006-09-19, 17:31

zhiguli wrote:except that there's only one, it's in german, and it only has 3 lessons so far..

I could have sworn that you also had a link to a Turkish site that had Avar lessons, or was that something else?
I did check out that German site, and it seemed great, but you are right, they haven't completed all the lessons yet. (If only my German was a little better!)


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