Pål wrote:Hello all. This looks like a nice forum indeed! I hope to learn a lot here, being amongst other language-freaks (I thought I was the only one, *sniff*).
Coming from the Liemers, a part of the Netherlands (near the German border), I'm very interested in this forum about Lower Saxon. Until recently I thought Liemers' was a form of Lower Saxon too, but I discovered it was not. Though it is called 'platt' too, it's not a part of Lower Saxon but considered a form of Frankisch (how is it called in English?).
That's why I wanted to reply to this post:frank74 wrote:In wikipedia there is map depicting the approximate language area:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nieders%C3 ... he_Sprache
In the Netherlands the yellow should stretch a little further to the west, as it also includes a region called the "Veluwe".
I'm sorry, but Veluws is the same in that it isn't Saxon but Frankisch.
Well, other sources indicate that it is a Low Saxon dialect, for example http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veluws
Some say the border between Low Franconian and Low Saxon is the river IJssel, but the dialects on both sides of this river are very similar (Veluws is spoken to the west of it). But the more you move to the West, the more Low Franconian** ("Standard Dutch") it will become.
In Scholtmeijer 2002*, Veluws is also called a transitional dialect (overgangsdialect). The language 'border' consists of a series of isoglosses, i.e. borders of a part of the language, grammar and pronunciation. "... ter hoogte van de Utrechtse Heuvelrug en het Gooi eindigt het Nedersaksische taalgebied definitief".
So to conclude, we may be right both, the yellow stretches a little further to the west, but becomes lighter and lighter...
*Scholtmeijer, Harrie 2002, "Utrechts, Veluws en Flevolands", within series: van der Seijs, Nicoline (red.) "Taal in stad en land", Sdu uitgevers, Den Haag
**(Neder-)Frankisch is dus (Low) Franconian. Volgens eerder genoemd boek is die term aan het uitsterven, maar ik kom hem nog wel heel vaak tegen voor de verzameling Hollands, Utrechts, Brabants, Zuid-Gelders, Vlaams etc.