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Favourite Anthems - Page 6 - UniLang

Favourite Anthems

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Spaigelploatje
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby Spaigelploatje » 2011-08-22, 8:21

The Dutch anthem has barely any nationalism in it. But it has some references to things that happened in the past. Many people don't like our anthem anymore, because it sounds old-fashioned and because it's merely a love song to God than a song that makes us proud of our country.
Actually I love it, because it is different even though I'm not a Christian. you shouldn't take things too seriously..

There's just a few parts that may lead to some nationalism: Like:
10th stanza:
Nothing makes me pity so much
in my adversity,
then that are seen to be impoverishing
the good lands of the King
That you are molested by the Spaniards,
O Noble Netherlands sweet,
when I think of that,
my noble heart bleeds.



And the 11th stanza:
Seated [on horseback] like a prince,
with my armed forces,
Defied by the tyrant,
I awaited the battle.
Those dug in at Maastricht
were afraid of my might
People saw my horsemen ride
bravely through the fields.


All the others are honours to God and once to the king of Spain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelmus#Lyrics
Last edited by Spaigelploatje on 2011-08-22, 8:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Hoogstwaarschijnlijk
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2011-08-22, 8:28

I think our anthem doesn't make any sense at all. I mean, it's kind of nice to have an anthem, because everyone knows the tune and when it's played on the Olympic Games the sportsman/-woman will get teary, but the tune is so slow and boring (it used to be more aggressive though, I think I'd prefer that) and the lyrics are just stupid. I mean, in what way does it represent the Dutch people when your anthem starts with: 'Wilhelmus van Nassau, am I of German blood'? :roll:

@Spaigelploatje: Don't you think:
"den vaderland getrouwe
blijf ik tot in den dood"
has a sense of nationalism too? (or does that refer to Spain or Germany in stead of the Netherlands...?) And what about: "o edel Neerland zoet,"?
Interests: lots.
Motivation: little.

Corrections appreciated.

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Spaigelploatje
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby Spaigelploatje » 2011-08-22, 8:32

Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:I think our anthem doesn't make any sense at all. I mean, it's kind of nice to have an anthem, because everyone knows the tune and when it's played on the Olympic Games the sportsman/-woman will get teary, but the tune is so slow and boring (it used to be more aggressive though, I think I'd prefer that) and the lyrics are just stupid. I mean, in what way does it represent the Dutch people when your anthem starts with: 'Wilhelmus van Nassau, am I of German blood'? :roll:

Because it's not German. Plain and simple.
It says: "Ben ik van Duitsen bloed."
But 'Duitsen' has nothing to do with Germans at all. Think about the English word Dutch and the Dutch word Diets. It meant something like 'people'. In some parts it was written down as Duytschen, while in others it was Dietschen.
So he has the same blood (thoughts) as his people.
Also for a funny fact, the country Germany didn't exist back then, except as a part of the Holy Roman Empire, so there's no way this song related to German blood even tho he came from the Orange region somewhere around the German/French border.


edit[
I read something new which doesn't agree with me, but neither with people who think it's only about Germany..
The word "Duytschen" in the first stanza as a reference to William's roots, whose modern Dutch equivalent, "Duits", exclusively means "German", could refer to William's ancestral house (Nassau) as well as to the lands of the Holy Roman Empire at large, including the Netherlands; scholars have pointed out that a sharp distinction between Duits ("German") and Diets ("Dutch"), which are dialectical variants of the same word, is unlikely to have existed in 16th-century usage

Dutch sloeg oorspronkelijk, ongedefinieerd, op alle Diets- of Duits-sprekende inwoners van het Heilige Roomse Rijk der Duitse Natie, met inbegrip van de hedendaagse 'Nederlandse' gewesten - vandaar ook dat het Wilhelmus vaststelt dat de Prins van Oranje 'van Duitsen bloed' is.

Another one:
the prince simply states that his roots are Germanic rather than Romance - in spite of his being Prince of Orange in France as well."

I don't really mind actually.
But another thought why he joined the Netherlands might be, because he was a Protestant and not a Catholic. Maybe he didn't feel comfortable with the Catholics around Nassau?
end of edit

"den vaderland getrouwe
blijf ik tot in den dood"
has a sense of nationalism too? (or does that refer to Spain or Germany in stead of the Netherlands...?)

Nope, this means he was there for his people. But in the last sentence of the first stanza he honours the king of Spain.
This leads to think he accepted the king of Spain, and actually didn't want the Netherlands to be a new nation. William of Oranje believed kings were chosen by God, so he had to accept the king of Spain. But the activities of duke Alva made him fight for the Netherlands. That's why the next sentence is in the 10th stanza:

And what about: "o edel Neerland zoet,"?

Duke Alva abused us, mistreated us. So William of Orange was fighting against the Spaniards who were led by duke Alva (again he still honoured the king of Spain!). William of Orange was hurt by the fact duke Alva molested the Netherlands.

But I already said that was one out of two stanzas that bears some nationalism.

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Hoogstwaarschijnlijk
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2011-08-22, 9:13

Ha, I forgot for a moment about the Diets-thing, I thought about his house of birth, which was in (nowadays) Germany... However, I think this isn't imporant at all. What we sing now is: 'van Duitsen bloed' and it really doesn't matter what this meant, it's important what it means now.
Interests: lots.
Motivation: little.

Corrections appreciated.

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Spaigelploatje
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby Spaigelploatje » 2011-08-22, 10:03

If anthems should reflect a country like they are nowadays maybe the East-german anthem would've been better for Germany after WW2. ;) It sounds better as well. (Auferstanden aus Ruinen).

Sometimes I just see it as history. Like would Italians still like to die for their country? Or are there still people on the French countryside with bloody banners to cut the throats of the French men and women? :lol:

Nah, it's all history, and it tells a story of a country. Like the Dutch anthem tells a story towards Dutch independence with the help of God.
We cannot reinstate the former Dutch anthem because that anthem is racist "Wien Neêrlands bloed door d'aderen vloeit, van vreemde smetten vrij".

That means we should make or find a new anthem, and erm. I cannot think of one song that tells what's the case in the Netherlands now and can be sung easily..

There's one modern anthem I actually like. Flower of Scotland. It's about the past, the current and the future.

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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby hlysnan » 2011-08-22, 10:09

ILuvEire wrote:
hlysnan wrote:I really like Jerusalem. I just wish that someone could write lyrics to the tune without references to Christianity. What do you think of 'Land of Hope and Glory'?
I don't mind the references to Christianity--I see them in a literary light, it's a metaphor for peace. I enjoy peace.


I think you should take a look at the lyrics. It's just too much for even an unofficial national anthem, in my opinion.

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Hoogstwaarschijnlijk
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2011-08-22, 10:09

You're absolutely right, it's impossible to have a better lyric that will last longer, but it's just that I meant to say that if you look at the lyrics from a present perspective, without thinking about history, it's such a strange song, so all that's left is the tradition of this anthem, not a nice tune or lyric or anything.

But I suggest we take 'Brabant' from Guus Meeuwis and use it as a new national anthem. Who cares that it's only about Brabant.
Interests: lots.
Motivation: little.

Corrections appreciated.

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Spaigelploatje
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby Spaigelploatje » 2011-08-22, 10:16

Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:You're absolutely right, it's impossible to have a better lyric that will last longer, but it's just that I meant to say that if you look at the lyrics from a present perspective, without thinking about history, it's such a strange song, so all that's left is the tradition of this anthem, not a nice tune or lyric or anything.

But I suggest we take 'Brabant' from Guus Meeuwis and use it as a new national anthem. Who cares that it's only about Brabant.

I'm pretty sure the Frisians, Groningers and Limburgers would care. :P
It's the same like saying you should sing.
Frysk bloed tsjoch op wol no ris brûze en side.
En bûnzje troch ús ieren om.

or

Van Lauwerszee tot Dollard tou, van Drinthe tot aan't wad
Doar gruit doar bluit ain wonderlaand, rondom ain wondre stad


Brabant is a downplay to other parts of the Netherlands. Like it's only 'gezellig' in Brabant. Of course the song is nice, would be a nice anthem for Brabant (since Brabant is the only province without an anthem), but it wouldn't be a nice anthem for the rest of this country.

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Hoogstwaarschijnlijk
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2011-08-22, 10:20

Spaigelploatje wrote:
Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:You're absolutely right, it's impossible to have a better lyric that will last longer, but it's just that I meant to say that if you look at the lyrics from a present perspective, without thinking about history, it's such a strange song, so all that's left is the tradition of this anthem, not a nice tune or lyric or anything.

But I suggest we take 'Brabant' from Guus Meeuwis and use it as a new national anthem. Who cares that it's only about Brabant.

I'm pretty sure the Frisians, Groningers and Limburgers would care. :P
It's the same like saying you should sing.
Frysk bloed tsjoch op wol no ris brûze en side.
En bûnzje troch ús ieren om.

or

Van Lauwerszee tot Dollard tou, van Drinthe tot aan't wad
Doar gruit doar bluit ain wonderlaand, rondom ain wondre stad


Brabant is a downplay to other parts of the Netherlands. Like it's only 'gezellig' in Brabant. Of course the song is nice, would be a nice anthem for Brabant (since Brabant is the only province without an anthem), but it wouldn't be a nice anthem for the rest of this country.

I was only joking of course.

Yes, I thought that Brabant didn't have an anthem either, but then I read on a website about it Wilhelmus that we do have one (Toen de Hertog Jan kwam varen), but I'm not sure if that's actually true.
Interests: lots.
Motivation: little.

Corrections appreciated.

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Spaigelploatje
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby Spaigelploatje » 2011-08-22, 10:34

Brabant has several anthems, but none of them is official.

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Re: Favourite anthems

Postby MillMaths » 2011-08-23, 9:11

I like the Singapore national anthem. It's in Malay, and the first two words (meaning "let us" in Malay) sound like the Spanish word for "ladybird". :P

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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby Wishful Learner » 2011-08-23, 11:39

hlysnan wrote:
Wishful Learner wrote:'God Save the Queen' is a bit eh, to be honest. Long and drawn out...not very passionate...it's too short too! >.< Jerusalem is better (well, the tune is anyway...).


I really like Jerusalem. I just wish that someone could write lyrics to the tune without references to Christianity. What do you think of 'Land of Hope and Glory'?


I don't mind them really...it's a compromise if we're getting rid of God Save The Queen (I'm a royalist, but the piece is just so dull). But if it's a anthem for Britain, they'd have to change all the references to England ("England's mountains green") and change into Britain (Hah, the English nationalists would love that).

I don't know about Land of Hope and Glory...for some strange reason I always think of anthems on sports podiums... >.< I can't see it. :-/ I can see Jerusalem though.
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby BezierCurve » 2011-08-23, 12:19

The Israeli anthem (HaTikva) reminds me of an old Polish song. Which is not surprising, as both melodies allegedly come from an even older Italian song.
Brejkam wszystkie rule.

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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby Chekhov » 2011-08-23, 16:13

HaTikvah is one of my favourite anthems, it's really nice.
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby ILuvEire » 2011-08-24, 3:18

Musically, I love it, and I think the lyrics are beautiful and incredibly powerful, but the "Jewish soul" part pretty much alienates 20% of Israelis within the first few seconds of the song.
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby Chekhov » 2011-08-24, 4:11

And 100% of Israeli Arabs.
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby BezierCurve » 2011-08-24, 14:57

Let's just hum it so.
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby kamanek » 2011-08-24, 17:40

Of course [flag]he[/flag] התקווה /HaTíkvah/ (The Hope)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1I6d0OTSOA

[flag]ja[/flag] 君が代 きみがよ /kimigayo/ Lit "Your (the emperor) age" (only the music, the lyrics are so poetic but arent accepted in about 35% of the japanese people)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya9iPEa9ucc


[flag]zhc[/flag] Qing Dynasty last anthem 鞏金甌 /Gong Jin'Ou/ (Cup of solid gold)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbBTkINk5n4


[flag]zhc[/flag] 卿雲歌 /Qing yun ge/ (Song to the auspicious cloud) Anthem of the Republic of China in 1921

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkR3lg_-FhM

[flag]ru[/flag] Государственный гимн Российской Федерации /Gosudarstvenny Gimn Rossiyskoy Federatsii/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOAtz8xWM0w

:mrgreen:
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby Chekhov » 2011-08-24, 22:07

"Kimigayo" is one of my favourite anthems. It's short but beautiful, just like the Japanese themselves. I hadn't heard "Gong Jin'ou" before but it's really nice. Certainly much better than that crappy "March of the Volunteers".
only the music, the lyrics are so poetic but arent accepted in about 35% of the japanese people)
Oh, is that right? You have statistics to back it up?
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Re: Favourite Anthems

Postby kamanek » 2011-08-24, 22:12

Chekhov wrote:"Kimigayo" is one of my favourite anthems. It's short but beautiful, just like the Japanese themselves. I hadn't heard "Gong Jin'ou" before but it's really nice. Certainly much better than that crappy "March of the Volunteers".
only the music, the lyrics are so poetic but arent accepted in about 35% of the japanese people)
Oh, is that right? You have statistics to back it up?


I've interviewed a Japanese, a frend of my father, he said me that..
Native [flag]es-uy[/flag] (Now in Argentina)
Very advanced [flag]he[/flag] IB Hebrew SL Exam 5/7 [flag]en[/flag]
Main Focus [flag]ja[/flag][flag]zh[/flag]Image[flag]zhc[/flag]
Understand good [flag]it[/flag][flag]fr[/flag][flag]ca[/flag] and a bit [flag]de[/flag][flag]ro[/flag]
R&W and some words [flag]yi[/flag] [flag]ru[/flag][flag]el[/flag][flag]ar[/flag][flag]bg[/flag][flag]uk[/flag][flag]sr[/flag][flag]ur[/flag][flag]ug[/flag][flag]be[/flag][flag]ko[/flag]


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