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I have some questions - Page 32 - UniLang

I have some questions

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ling
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Re: I have some questions

Postby ling » 2015-02-17, 16:42

LifeDeath wrote:For example, when I say: "I bought some candies to eat", I mean that those candies are supposet to be eaten, or that eating is the best choice we can make with them. I think "to" has a little meaning of something in the future, doesn't it?

The "to" here indicates purpose or intent, and the "future" sense you get is a direct consequence of that.

So when I've been trying to tanslate the line "The shape of things to come", I got a Russian sentence which I can translate in English like "How things that will happen in the future look like", so tell me please if these two sentences have something in common, unless I may say that I understand nothing. As I said, I think that "to" kind of emphasizes on the future. That's why I understand this line like "There're things(shape of which we know), which had better happen soon". If that makes sense, I don't really understand the need of the word "shape" in this context, I guess "Things to come" would be enough.

"The shape of things to come" means, as you correctly guessed, "The way things in the future will look."

"things to come" means "things that will come", or "things (either tangible or intangible) that will exist in the future". The word "shape" adds more to the phrase: it refers to their form or manner.

Actually, The Shape of Things to Come is the title of an H.G. Wells story. No idea what the Russian title is, but in Ukrainian it's Форма прийдешнього.
Native:  (en) Advanced:  (zh) Actively studying:  (th) (id) Passively dabbling:  (lkt)

LifeDeath
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-02-19, 16:47

Thank you very much!

But I don't understand when we can use that? Russian "облик грядущего" I would use maybe to parody some philosopher. I think that sounds too complicated.


So I've been listening to the song "I don't Wanna Miss a Thing" of Aerosmith and I found this sentence:
"And I don't wanna miss a thing
'Cause even when I dream of you
The sweetest dream would never do
I'd still miss you, baby"

And I cannot understand what "dream woud never do" means. So please tell me. "Do" what?

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linguoboy
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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-02-19, 17:44

LifeDeath wrote:But I don't understand when we can use that. Russian "облик грядущего" I would use maybe to parody some philosopher. I think that sounds too complicated.

So I've been listening to the song "I don't Wanna Miss a Thing" ofby Aerosmith and I found this sentence:
"And I don't wanna miss a thing
'Cause even when I dream of you
The sweetest dream would never do
I'd still miss you, baby"

And I cannot understand what "dream would never do" means. So please tell me. "Do" what?
"Suffice". See definition #7 in this entry.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

LifeDeath
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-02-20, 18:26

Thanks.

I would like to ask another question. I noticed that the word "dream" can mean two things in English.

1. Something that you brain unconsciously create when you are sleeping. Some things that you may see while being asleep.

2. Things that you really want to come true. Your desiers, aims which get you motivated to do something, which inspire you.

It's pretty simple in Russian since we have two absolutely different words for those cases. But I want to ask you about the usage in English. So maybe there're different words for those cases which I just don't know?

For example:
"He says he likes dreaming". How can we understand that if we have no more context? Does he like sleeping, maybe because he works about 10 hours a day and thus having problems with his sleeping? That's why he likes it.
Or maybe he is just a romantic person and he likes sitting at the table, reading a book and imagining his desiers while doing that?

Another example:

"He'd been late because he was dreaming too much". Again, we have two ways to understand:

1. He was sleeping too deeply all the night that he couldn't hear his alarm, and when he woke up, it was already late.

2. He was awake all the morning and he was thinking about things he wants to come true, and so deep was he into this fictional world that when he looked up at his wathes, only then he understood that he's already late.

So how to understand what's meant if we don't have enough context? Maybe there're special words for them? What do you think when you hear "dream"?

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linguoboy
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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-02-20, 18:36

LifeDeath wrote:I would like to ask another question. I noticed that the word "dream" can mean two things in English.

1. Something that your brain unconsciously creates when you are sleeping. Some things that you may see while being asleep.

2. Things that you really want to come true. Your desires, aims which get you motivated to do something, which inspire you.

It's pretty simple in Russian since we have two absolutely different words for those cases. But I want to ask you about the usage in English. So maybe there're different words for those cases which I just don't know?

For example:
"He says he likes dreaming". How can we understand that if we have no more context? Does he like sleeping, maybe because he works about 10 hours a day and thus havings problems with his sleeping? That's why he likes it.
Or maybe he is just a romantic person and he likes sitting at the table, reading a book and imagining his desires while doing that?

Another example:

"He'd been late because he was dreaming too much". Again, we have two ways to understand this:

1. He was sleeping tooso deeply all the night that he couldn't hear his alarm, and when he woke up, it was already late.

2. He was awake all the morning and he was thinking about things he wants to come true, and so deep was he into this fictional world that when he looked up at his watch, only then he understood that he's already late.

So how to understand what's meant if we don't have enough context?
It's a non-problem because there's almost always sufficient context and, if there isn't, one can always ask for clarification.

FWIW, without further context, I would interpret the first usage as "seeing pictures in his sleep" and the second as "having fanciful thoughts while conscious". (A common synonym for the latter is daydream.) But it wouldn't take much to alter my interpretation.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-02-22, 18:31

Thank you.

Guys I think you know this part of a poem:

"Remember, remember the fifth of November,
Gunpowder treason and plot,
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot."


And I want you to tell me why "be forgot" is used? I always thought that the past participle of "forget" was "forgotten". That's why the given sentence confuses me.

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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-02-22, 20:20

LifeDeath wrote:And I want you to tell me why "be forgot" is used?
Because it rhymes that way.

(Don't ever read any Ogden Nash. He will drive you up a tree.)
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

LifeDeath
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-02-23, 17:13

You know I've been taught and I read from a lot of articles that when we want to agree that one doesn't do something, we use the word "either".

"-I don't like it
- I don't like it either"


My question is: can I use the words "also" and "too" in negetive agreements? Like: "I also don't like it" or "I don't like it too".
Can I use "either" in a positive agreements? Like: "Yeah, and I do like that either!"

I also was taught that when something is repeating some times, we have to say "once" for one time, "twice" for two times, and then we just say number + times. So I was wondering if I can sometimes say "one time" or "two times", can I? Maybe there can be cases where it's possible.

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linguoboy
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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-02-23, 18:29

LifeDeath wrote:You know I've been taught and I read fromin a lot of articles that when we want to agree that one doesn't do something, we use the word "either".

"-I don't like it
- I don't like it either"


My question is: can I use the words "also" and "too" in negetive agreements? Like: "I also don't like it" or "I don't like it too".
"I don't like it too" is a shibboleth; whenever I hear it, I know the speaker is non-native. "I also don't like it" is more idiomatic than that, but very rarely used.

LifeDeath wrote:Can I use "either" in a positive agreements? Like: "Yeah, and I do like that either!"
No. Or rather, you could, but I would wager that the average native speaker will mishear this as "Yeah, and I don't like that either!" It's simply not something we say.

LifeDeath wrote:I also was taught that when something is repeating somea few times, we have to say "once" for one time, "twice" for two times, and then we just say number + times. So I was wondering if I can sometimes say "one time" or "two times". Can I? Maybe there can be cases where it's possible.
It is possible. I'd have to think about when I would prefer "twice" and when I would prefer "two times". They strike me as being nearly synonymous.

Incidentally, "thrice" exists as well, but it's not as common nowadays as either "once" or "twice".
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-02-25, 18:54

Thanks a lot.
What is the difference between "problem" and "trouble"?
Someone said that "trouble" is more stronger, it emhasizes on something bad stronger that "problem" does

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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-02-25, 20:26

LifeDeath wrote:What is the difference between "problem" and "trouble"?
Someone said that "trouble" is more stronger, it emphasizes on something bad stronger than "problem" does
I don't know that I can go along with that. "Problems" can be big and "troubles" can be minor. It says more about the speaker's attitude. A "problem" can be an interesting challenge. It implies that a solution can be found. That's not the case with "trouble". "Trouble" is something to be avoid if at all possible. "Don't look for trouble" has a completely different meaning from "Don't look for problems".

From a usage point of view, problem is a count noun and trouble isn't. Yeah, trouble can be pluralised, but that just changes the meaning subtly. You can have "99 problems"; you can't have *"99 troubles".
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Re: I have some questions

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-02-25, 20:52

but that just changes the meaning subtly.


In what way?

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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-02-25, 21:31

IpseDixit wrote:
but that just changes the meaning subtly.
In what way?
"Troubles" has a more limited application. I'm mentally trying to substitute it for "trouble" in various common expressions and finding that it doesn't fit, e.g.:

*"I'm having a lot of troubles with him."
*"She's here to cause troubles."
*"You're going to get us in troubles!"

"Troubles" seems to be limited in meaning to "civil unrest" on the one hand and "personal problems" on the other, e.g.:

"How will Myanmar deal with its ethnic troubles?"
"Tell me your troubles."
"All troubles are momentarily forgotten in the presence of jerk chicken roti."
"Solve your money troubles!"
"Twitter's troubles can't be tweaked away."

In all those instances, you could substitute "problems" without, I think, substantially altering the meaning. Again, that wouldn't work with the starred examples further above.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

LifeDeath
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-02-27, 18:34

Thank you!

What would be the tag guestion for "must have"?
For example: "It must have been a joke, hasn't it? Tell me when I would begin to laugh"

Does "hasn't it" sound good here? If not, what should I use?

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Re: I have some questions

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-02-27, 18:37

LifeDeath wrote:Thank you!

What would be the tag guestion for "must have"?
For example: "It must have been a joke, hasn't it? Tell me when I would begin to laugh"

Does "hasn't it" sound good here? If not, what should I use?


"mustn't it?" (also, "mustn't" is pronounced "mussnt")
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-02-27, 18:42

LifeDeath wrote:What would be the tag guestion for "must have"?
For example: "It must have been a joke, hasn't it? Tell me when I would begin to laugh"

Does "hasn't it" sound good here? If not, what should I use?
"Hasn't it" sounds awful here. You can only use that when has is the main auxiliary verb.

"He's been there before, hasn't he?" [He's in this instance is a contraction of "he has".]

There are cases where repeating the auxiliary verb simply isn't done and you have to use a more generic tag. In my American English dialect, that is generally "right?"

"It must've been a joke, right?"

In some British English varieties, "innit?" (from "isn't it?") can be used the same way:

"It must've been a joke, innit?"
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: I have some questions

Postby Ciarán12 » 2015-02-27, 18:46

linguoboy wrote:
LifeDeath wrote:What would be the tag guestion for "must have"?
For example: "It must have been a joke, hasn't it? Tell me when I would begin to laugh"

Does "hasn't it" sound good here? If not, what should I use?
"Hasn't it" sounds awful here. You can only use that when has is the main auxiliary verb.

"He's been there before, hasn't he?" [He's in this instance is a contraction of "he has".]

There are cases where repeating the auxiliary verb simply isn't done and you have to use a more generic tag. In my American English dialect, that is generally "right?"

"It must've been a joke, right?"

In some British English varieties, "innit?" (from "isn't it?") can be used the same way:

"It must've been a joke, innit?"


Seconded. "mustn't it?" is more formal-sounding than "right?" (which is what I would say too).
Beidh Gaeilge líofa chruinn bhlasta agam nó go bhfaighe mé bás san iarracht!

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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-02-27, 18:52

Ciarán12 wrote:Seconded. "mustn't it?" is more formal-sounding than "right?" (which is what I would say too).
To me, it's well beyond "formal-sounding". It's something I can only imagine saying if I were parodying the stereotype of a stuffy Victorian don.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-02-27, 18:59

Okay thank you both.

Another think I want to ask about tag questions, is wher to negate them and where not to. In any grammar book you will find thay if the verv in a sentence is used without a negation, we negate the tag:
"You understand me, don't you?"

And vice-versa:
"You don't understand me, do you?"

So I wanted to ask you if there can be cases when I can use all in positive or in negative.

Like:
"I see that you perfectly understand me, do you?"
"I haven't slept tonight so I think my face is terrible now, is it?"
"Don't lie to me, you do really want to see her now, do you?"
"He hasn't found the right way since I see that he is not here yet, hasn't he?"
"He would already call me by now, I guess he didn't get my letter, didn't he?"

So what do you think about those? Would you really notice something wrong about them?(I mean about tags)

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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-02-27, 20:41

LifeDeath wrote:So I wanted to ask you if there can be cases when I can use all in positive or in negative.
Perhaps in some native varieties of English, but not in mine. For your examples to be idiomatic for me, I would have to make the "tags" independent sentences which cast doubt on what the speaker has just asserted:
LifeDeath wrote:"I see that you perfectly understand me perfectly. Do you?"
"I haven't slept tonight so I think my face is terrible now. Is it?"
"Don't lie to me, you do really want to see her now. Do you?"
"He hasn't found the right way since I see that he is not here yet. Hasn't he?"
This one is doubly awkward to me because of the separation between the main clause and the tag. Colloquially, you would generally insert the tag immediately after the main clause. E.g.:

"He hasn't found the right way, has he? Otherwise he'd be here already."

LifeDeath wrote:"He should have already called me by now, I guess he didn't get my letter. Didn't he?"
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons


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