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I have some questions - Page 33 - UniLang

I have some questions

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Re: I have some questions

Postby Dormouse559 » 2015-02-27, 21:16

Separating the question out changes my sense of what's happening. With the question separate, it sounds like the speaker was very sure of the statement. Then, after they finished speaking, something happened to make them doubt their conclusion.

- I see that you understand me perfectly.
Listener gives a confused look.
- Do you?
N'hésite pas à corriger mes erreurs.

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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-02-28, 19:28

Thank you all.

I've watched a video lesson and some moments confused me.

At 01:11 he says that "I didn't see nothing" means "I saw anything". Of course two negatives can eliminate each other making the sentence be positive, but I always thought that it kind of emphasizes a negation, and the given sentence just means "I didn't see anything" (later he corrected it so)

Later he shows "have went" as a mistake. But even since I try to watch and read in English a lot I never have come across this, just wanted to see your opinion whether this really exists or not.

I noticed a lot of dissatisfied people in the comments writing stuff like he should have used "been" instead of "gone" (when he was talking about "have went"), so is "gone" really incorrect there?

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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-02-28, 20:23

LifeDeath wrote:At 01:11 he says that "I didn't see nothing" means "I saw anything". Of course two negatives can eliminate each other making the sentence be positive, but I always thought that it kind of emphasizes a negation, and the given sentence just means "I didn't see anything" (later he corrected it so)
It's purest pedantry to interpret the sentence in that way. Everyone knows "I didn't see nothing" means "I saw nothing". For most people, there is no special emphasis; they just have negative concord in their speech.

LifeDeath wrote:Later he showspresents "have went" as a mistake. But even sincethough I try to watch things and read in English a lot I never have come across this, just wanted to see your opinion whether this really exists or not.
It's a thing. In colloquial American English, you find a lot of interchange between past tense forms and past participles. Sometimes it's the participle being used as simple past (e.g. "I seen it") and sometimes, as here, it's the reverse.

LifeDeath wrote:I noticed a lot of dissatisfied people in the comments writing stuff like he should have used "been" instead of "gone" (when he was talking about "have went"), so is "gone" really incorrect there?
You're going to make me listen to another terrible amateur grammar video aren't you? Very well.

ETA: SO IRRITATING! As I suspected, he's a prescriptivist pedant. None of those are "errors", they're just colloquialisms. The "less" vs "fewer" thing is particularly annoying, as it's seriously based on nothing more than a comment made by one 18th-century grammarian on the basis of no evidence whatsoever. (If anyone every tries to correct you for using "less" where they would say "fewer", tell them that if it was good enough for Alfred the Great, it's good enough for you, too.)

In any case, they're probably caviling about "I've gone to Ohio three times". "I've been to Ohio three times" works here as well. It's just a matter of whether the speaker is emphasising the fact of having made the trip or the fact of having been in the state.
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-03-02, 14:06

Yeah dude I know that some of them can be not as good as I'd like them to be though still useful. It anyway much better than watching lessons of non-natives. Whoever made a video-lesson, it would be useful fo me even if the information was kin of invented. I can still pick up something new from each of them, thus improving my knoweledge.

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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-03-02, 14:34

LifeDeath wrote:Yeah dude I know that some of them can be not as good as I'd like them to be though still useful. ItAnyway, it's much better than watching lessons of non-natives. Whoever makes a video lesson, it would be useful to me even if the information was kind of invented. I can still pick up something new from each of them, thus improving my knoweledge.
But how are you supposed to know which of the new things you pick up are actually useful and which are just bullshit (like most of his presentation is)? Anyone can set themselves up as an authority on the Internet and how are you, as a non-native learner, going to sort the bullshit artists from the real experts?
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-03-02, 14:53

That's the problem, I can't. I guess it's even impossible to know whether the stuff you're watching is good or bad. The other way of avoiding is just watch nothing, but that leads nowhere since my knoweledge would not be impoved. I think that whoever learns a language should use as many sources of information as it's possible, and check out some doubtful things like I sometimes do on this website. Maybe only the time and experience will help me sieve good things from bullshit. But by the time a learner would rather be on advanced level and is able to sieve this himself.

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Re: I have some questions

Postby ling » 2015-03-03, 7:33

LifeDeath wrote:At 01:11 he says that "I didn't see nothing" means "I saw anything". Of course two negatives can eliminate each other making the sentence be positive, but I always thought that it kind of emphasizes a negation, and the given sentence just means "I didn't see anything" (later he corrected it so)

Technically, if you follow the strict rules of negation, "I didn't see nothing" means "I saw something". But it's a common colloquialism that most people recognize means "I didn't see anything."

Later he shows "have went" as a mistake. But even since I try to watch and read in English a lot I never have come across this, just wanted to see your opinion whether this really exists or not.

I would consider "I have went" and "I seen" to be wrong, despite being somewhat common. I would consider them marks of a lack of education, or of non-standard dialect.

I noticed a lot of dissatisfied people in the comments writing stuff like he should have used "been" instead of "gone"
.
In most cases, "I have been (somewhere)" has the same meaning as "I have gone (somewhere)", and both are acceptable.

I fall somewhere between the prescriptivist and descriptivist camps. Taken too far in one direction and you get unbearable pedantry; too far in the other direction and you get total chaos.
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-03-05, 20:08

Thank you all!

Does this line sound correct?
"What does the neighbor do weekends?"
Or maybe I should say "on weekend"?

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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-03-05, 20:12

LifeDeath wrote:Does this line sound correct?
"What does the neighbor do weekends?"
Yes, it does. It does sound a bit odd to say "the neighbor" instead of "your neighbor", but it's acceptable colloquially.

LifeDeath wrote:Or maybe I should say "on weekend"?
No. Either "on weekends" or "on the weekend" but never *"on weekend".
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-03-05, 20:41

It confuses me since we don't use anything before "weekends". But I feel the need to use any preposition, it really wants. Like "on weekends" or "during weekends".
It's like to say "Will you go me, or I go alone?".

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Re: I have some questions

Postby ling » 2015-03-06, 7:00

In that case, with no preposition, "weekends" is an adverb, like "every day". I (an American) usually say "on weekends", instead of just "weekends" in this case, but omitting the "on" is okay.

Brits often say "at the weekend".
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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-03-06, 13:08

LifeDeath wrote:It confuses me since we don't use anything before "weekends". But I feel the need to use anysome preposition, it really wants. Like "on weekends" or "during weekends".

It's like to saying "Will you go me, or I go alone?".
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-03-06, 17:36

Thanks!

I noticed that you used words like "prescriptivist pedant", "descriptivist", "pedantry". Though I've been trying to understand their meanings, I've actually found nothing. So can you please explain those to me?

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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-03-06, 17:40

LifeDeath wrote:I noticed that you used words like "prescriptivist pedant", "descriptivist", "pedantry". Though I've been trying to understans their meanings, I've actually found nothing. So can you please explain those to me?
Really? Where did you look?
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/prescriptivist
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/descriptivist
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pedantry

For a brief introduction to descriptivism and how it differs from the prescriptivist way in which languages are often taught, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_description.
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-03-07, 15:46

So guys I wanted to ask you about the verb "hurt", though I don't really even know whether it's a verb or an adjective. How should I use it?
For example, if my friend has a headache, he is sitting and suffering, holding his head, his eyes closed. How would I answer him:

"Does it really hurt that strong?" or "Is it hurt that strong?" ?

Or if, for example, I scratched my arm by, for instance, a flower's thorn, how should I say?

"Oh God, this hurts" or "Oh God, this is hurt"?

And after some time I would say:

"My hand hurted" or "my hand was/(got?) hurt"?


So please help me with those examples and I will understan how to use this word.

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Re: I have some questions

Postby ling » 2015-03-07, 17:30

LifeDeath wrote:So guys I wanted to ask you about the verb "hurt", though I don't really even know whether it's a verb or an adjective. How should I use it?

It's a verb, meaning "to cause pain" or "to injure". It can also be a noun, meaning "pain".

If someone says "It hurts", it generally means "It causes me pain".

For example, if my friend has a headache, he is sitting and suffering, holding his head, his eyes closed. How would I answer him:

"Does it really hurt that strong?" or "Is it hurt that strong?" ?

"Does it really hurt that bad(ly)?"
(not "strong")

Or if, for example, I scratched my arm by, for instance, a flower's thorn, how should I say?

"Oh God, this hurts" or "Oh God, this is hurt"?

"Oh God, this hurts."

And after some time I would say:
"My hand hurted" or "my hand was/(got?) hurt"?

Usually when we use the passive with "hurt", it means "injured": "He was hurt in a car accident."

In the case you described, it's normal to describe what happened: "I was pricked by a thorn, and it hurt."

(The simple past tense and past participle of "hurt" are both "hurt". To me, "hurted" sounds like something children say, because they haven't mastered the past tense forms of the verb yet.)
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-03-07, 20:50

Thanks!

What is the difference between "shouldn't have" and 'needn't have"? I guess they both emphasize kind of regretful that something was never done, or vice-versa.

"Oh I shouldn't have told you about that, so please don't tell anybody else"
"Oh I needn't have told you about that, so please don't tell anybody else"

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linguoboy
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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-03-07, 22:27

LifeDeath wrote:What is the difference between "shouldn't have" and 'needn't have"? I guess they both emphasize a kind of regretful that something was never done, or vice-versa.

"Oh I shouldn't have told you about that, so please don't tell anybody else"
"Oh I needn't have told you about that, so please don't tell anybody else"
For me, only the first of these two is idiomatic. Should expresses obligation whereas need expresses, well, need. "I shouldn't have done it" is more or less equivalent to "I ought not to have done it" (but I personally hardly ever use "ought" in the negative). "I needn't have done it" equates to "There was no need for me to do it". It's like saying that it doesn't matter whether I did it or not. That's why the second sentence isn't idiomatic to me, because by urging you not to tell anyone the speaker is saying that it does matter. There was an obligation not to tell anyone, and for obligation we prefer should or ought.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

LifeDeath
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-03-10, 7:05

Thank you!

So just for interesting I checked out one site with expression "was been", which I thought would never be used, but to my surprise, I found some usages.
Here
Can "be" really be used in the passive voice? Tell me please when should I use so.

ling
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Re: I have some questions

Postby ling » 2015-03-10, 7:55

LifeDeath wrote:Thank you!

So just for interesting I checked out one site with expression "was been", which I thought would never be used, but to my surprise, I found some usages.
Here
Can "be" really be used in the passive voice? Tell me please when should I use so.

None of those are correct.

Most look like typos for "has been". Some may have been written by people whose native language is not English. It's also possible that in some cases, someone might have written "has been", then changed his mind and decided to write "was" (changing "has" to "was"), but then forgot to delete "been".
Native:  (en) Advanced:  (zh) Actively studying:  (th) (id) Passively dabbling:  (lkt)


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