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I have some questions - Page 29 - UniLang

I have some questions

Moderators: JackFrost, dEhiN

LifeDeath
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2014-12-28, 15:20

What is the difference between "free" and "free of charge"?
Like:
"-How much is this car?
- That's free/free of charge, but you should be a president"

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linguoboy
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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2014-12-28, 16:40

LifeDeath wrote:What is the difference between "free" and "free of charge"?
Like:
"-How much is this car?
- That's free/free of charge, but you should be a president"

That second clause is non sequitur for me. Do you mean to say, "but you have to be the President to get it for free"?

In any case, "free of charge" is just a more explicit way of saying "free" when the meaning is "at no monetary cost", since "free" has other meanings as well (such as "unoccupied").
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

LifeDeath
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2014-12-28, 18:11

Thanks! That could be in museum. In section of cars which presidents once had

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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2014-12-28, 20:00

I had an argument with my teacher last time, so I want to know your opinion on this. She asked me to translate the word "tutorial" to Russian. I just said the Russian equivalent of the word "lesson", or maybe "training", maybe "instrucrion", so like that. But she said Russian word, which translated to English as "consultation"(they even sound almost same). But I think that the word "consultation" is unlike from "tutorial". "Consultation" is just like conference, asking questions. For example teacher can make a consultation before exam, where students can ask anything about a subject, to be better prepared. That's why I think that "tutorial" and "consultation" don't have a lot in common. What do you think?

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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2014-12-29, 16:09

LifeDeath wrote:I had an argument with my teacher last time, so I want to know your opinion on this. She asked me to translate the word "tutorial" to Russian. I just said the Russian equivalent of the word "lesson", or maybe "training", maybe "instrucrion", so like that. But she said a Russian word, which translates to English as "consultation"(they even sound almost same). But I think that the word "consultation" is unlikedifferent from "tutorial". "Consultation" is just like conferencering, asking questions. For example, a teacher can makehold a consultation before exam, where students can ask anything about a subject,in order to be better prepared. That's why I think that "tutorial" and "consultation" don't have a lot in common. What do you think?

I think I can't answer a question about the best translation for some Russian word I'm not at all familiar with. It could well be that both "tutorial" and "consultation" correspond to the same word in Russian just as one French word (toujours) covers both "always" and "still" and one Hindi word (कल) translates both "tomorrow" and "yesterday". If you gave me the Russian words, I could at least ask the English-Russian bilinguals I know for their opinions.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2014-12-29, 16:44

Thanks!

I translated as "урок".
She translated as "консультация".
Which word do you think is closer to "tutorial": "consultation" of "lesson"?

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linguoboy
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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2014-12-29, 16:59

LifeDeath wrote:I translated it as "урок".
She translated it as "консультация".
Which word do you think is closer to "tutorial": "consultation" or "lesson"?

"Tutorial" has more than one meaning in English (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tutorial#Noun) and I'm not sure which one she has in mind.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2014-12-29, 17:19

Yeah. None of those meanings mean "consultation" (asking-answering questions). That's why I think I may suppose that she was wrong

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linguoboy
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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2014-12-29, 17:43

LifeDeath wrote:Yeah. None of those meanings mean "consultation" (asking-answering questions).

Actually, that's very much what a tutorial class is like.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

LifeDeath
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2014-12-29, 18:47

Thank you a lot!!

So guys can you help me to understand what he says from 0:22 to 0:37. The only words I can distinctly understand are "narrowly" and "song". Can you help me with the rest?

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Re: I have some questions

Postby Dormouse559 » 2014-12-29, 19:21

Here's what he says:
Thanks a lot. It's nice to see you all again tonight. It makes The Rainbow feel like home for us. It's great. We've narrowly, narrowly escaped having a #1 single this week, uh, and this is the side which you haven't been hearing on the Tony Blackman Show. It's called "Flick of the Wrist". Thank you.
N'hésite pas à corriger mes erreurs.

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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2014-12-31, 15:58

Thanks, I don't know how do you do that. Ecespecially having taken in attention that he swallows words, thus sounds like non-native speaker at all.

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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2014-12-31, 16:21

LifeDeath wrote:Thanks, I don't know how do you do that. Ecespecially having taken in attentionnoticed that he swallows words, thus sounding like a non-native speaker at all.

I don't understand the last comment. In general, "swallowing words" is one of the things that makes you sound native. It's overpronouncing them which makes you sound non-native. (If you know My Fair Lady, this is how Zoltan Karpathy concludes that the poor Cockney woman Eliza Doolittle must be a foreign princess.)
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

LifeDeath
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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2014-12-31, 16:58

Yes, I meant that what he says isn't easy understood. I usually understand 50 - 70% of English speech (TV, audiobooks, songs). But in this video I barely understood a word.

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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-01-01, 19:10

Happy New Year guys!

Just wanted to ask how you consider sentences with a double negative? I just don't know how far it is rude and when I can say and when I shouldn't. I also thought that common example looks "don't ... no" (like "we don't need no education"). But I listend to a Freddie Mercury song "Living on my own" and I found this sentence: "Sometimes I feel nobody gives me no warning", so that sounds strange because "nobody" is used. But more interesting sentence was "I don't have no time for no monkey business". I just can't understand what it means. But it's more weird to see three negative particles being used in one sentence. I would consider "I don't have no time for a monkey business". Having said that, I suppose that someone who wrote lyrics just did mishear. What do you think?

Recalled another thing to ask, which tag question is used with an order or suggestion? I guess it's "would". Like:

"Don't open this window, would you?"

"-I just go to jungle tomorrow.
- You be careful! Would you?"

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linguoboy
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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-01-01, 20:10

LifeDeath wrote:Just wanted to ask howwhat you considerthink of sentences with a double negative?. I just don't know how far it is rude it is and when I can sayuse it and when I shouldn't. I also thought that the common example looks like "don't ... no" (like "we don't need no education"). But I listened to a Freddie Mercury song "Living on my own" and I found this sentence: "Sometimes I feel nobody gives me no warning", so that sounds strange because "nobody" is used. But a more interesting sentence was "I don't have no time for no monkey business". I just can't understand what it means. But it's more weird to see three negative particles being used in one sentence. I would considerexpect "I don't have no time for a monkey business". Having said that, I suppose that someone who wrote lyrics just did mishear. What do you think?

["Business" can be either a mass noun or a count noun in English. As a count noun, it means "business enterprise". "A monkey business", therefore, would be a company that deals in monkeys. You want the mass noun here.]

I think it's a perfectly normal example. It's not unusual to stack negatives for emphatic purposes (although examples with more than three negations such as "ain't nobody got no time for nothing else" are pretty rare).

As for when you can use them, they are considered highly colloquial. Some educated speakers view them as grammatically incorrect and never use them. Most would use them occasionally, generally in fixed expressions which are, in effect, borrowed wholesale from another variety of the language (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ain%27t_Nobody_Got_Time_for_That). Consistent use of double negatives is highly stigmatised, being a considered a marker of poor education and low social class.

LifeDeath wrote:Recalled another thing to ask: which tag question is used with an order or suggestion? I guess it's "would". Like:

"Don't open this window, would you?"

"-I'm just going to the jungle tomorrow.
- You be careful! Would you?"
Both of these examples sound awkward to me. I would prefer "okay?" as the tag in both cases.

You can use "would you?" with a positive command because in that case it allows for the interpretation that the command is an abbreviated suggestion. That is:

"Open this window, would you?" ["Open this window" is seen as an aphetic variant of "Would you open this window?"]

But negation with don't spoils the effect, since the fuller form would be "Would you not open this window?" and "Don't open this window" can't be interpreted as an abbreviation of that.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: I have some questions

Postby LifeDeath » 2015-01-07, 21:01

Thank you a lot!!

I just prepared some new questions:

1. I've been always taught that "say" was used with "to" and "tell" was used without. Really, I examples I've ever come across were according that rule. I've been always taught that "tell to her" is a very mistake, like "say her". Of course I found a refutation. I listended to a Queen song "Too much Love will kill You" written by Brian May, and there was a line "I feel like no-one ever told the truth to me". So why did he decide to use an incorrect way? Or maybe it's possible to say "tell to"? But I still thing that the proper sentence should be "I feel like no-one ever said the truth to me" or "I feel like no-one ever told me the truth".

2. I thought that the preposition which is used with the words "day" and "night" is "at". But in a Laura Branigan song "Self control" I heard a sentence "in the day nothing matters". So is "in" also possible?

3. In a Queen song "It's a hard Life" there's a sentence: "How it hurts - deep inside, when your love has cut you down to size". In another song of theirs there's a line: "Take this, take that, bring them down to size". I think that "size" is a measure of whether something is big or not, far or not, whatever. But what does this word mean in those lines?

ling
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Re: I have some questions

Postby ling » 2015-01-08, 2:46

LifeDeath wrote:Thank you a lot!!

I just prepared some new questions:

1. I've been always taught that "say" was used with "to" and "tell" was used without. Really, I examples I've ever come across were according that rule. I've been always taught that "tell to her" is a very mistake, like "say her". Of course I found a refutation. I listended to a Queen song "Too much Love will kill You" written by Brian May, and there was a line "I feel like no-one ever told the truth to me". So why did he decide to use an incorrect way? Or maybe it's possible to say "tell to"? But I still thing that the proper sentence should be "I feel like no-one ever said the truth to me" or "I feel like no-one ever told me the truth".

It has to do with the position of the word "me".

"Tell me the truth" is right, but if you change the position of "me", you can't say "Tell the truth me". You cave to add "to".

2. I thought that the preposition which is used with the words "day" and "night" is "at". But in a Laura Branigan song "Self control" I heard a sentence "in the day nothing matters". So is "in" also possible?

Different prepositions can be used with "day" and "night": "in the day/daytime", "by day/daytime", "at day/daytime" (though "at night/nighttime" is far more common).

"by day" and "by night" are usually used together, and represent habit and contrast: "By day she was a mild-mannered office worker, but by night she was a vigilante!"

3. In a Queen song "It's a hard Life" there's a sentence: "How it hurts - deep inside, when your love has cut you down to size". In another song of theirs there's a line: "Take this, take that, bring them down to size". I think that "size" is a measure of whether something is big or not, far or not, whatever. But what does this word mean in those lines?


It's an idiom: "to cut/bring somebody down to size"

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/cut+down+to+size
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linguoboy
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Re: I have some questions

Postby linguoboy » 2015-01-08, 2:54

LifeDeath wrote:1. I've been always taught that "say" was used with "to" and "tell" was used without. Really, all the examples I've ever come across were accordingfollowed that rule. I've always been always taught that "tell to her" is a very big mistake, like "say her". Of course I found a refutation. I listended to athe Queen song "Too much Love will kill You" written by Brian May, and there was a line "I feel like no-one ever told the truth to me". So why did he decide to use an incorrect way?

He didn't. There are two ways of phrasing indirect objects in English. Either they immediately follow the verb with no preposition ("Give me that book!") or the direct object comes first and the indirect object is preceded by to ("Give that book to me!"). Some dialects do allow bare indirect objects to come after direct objects in some cases (e.g. "Give it me!"), but this is not standard American or British usage.

Since tell is a ditransitive verb, both "I feel like no one ever told me the truth" and "I feel like no one ever told the truth to me" are equally acceptable. However, since say is not ditransitive, only say to is acceptable.

LifeDeath wrote:Or maybe it's possible to say "tell to"? But I still think that the proper sentence should be "I feel like no one ever said the truth to me" or "I feel like no one ever told me the truth".
"Tell the truth" is a idiom in English, so it's the more common phrasing.

LifeDeath wrote:2. I thought that the preposition which is used with the words "day" and "night" is "at". But in athe Laura Branigan song "Self control" I heard athe sentence "in the day nothing matters". So is "in" also possible?
"At day" does not sound idiomatic to me. Only "at night" is correct. In can be used with "night" as well, but only with the definite article, e.g. things that go bump in the night.

LifeDeath wrote:3. In athe Queen song "It's a hard Life" there's athe sentence: "How it hurts - deep inside, when your love has cut you down to size". In another song of theirs there's athe line: "Take this, take that, bring them down to size". I think that "size" is a measure of whether something is big or not, far or not, whatever. But what does this word mean in those lines?
It's another common idiom.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

ling
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Re: I have some questions

Postby ling » 2015-01-08, 4:12

LifeDeath wrote:Sometimes I feel nobody gives me no warning", so that sounds strange because "nobody" is used. But more interesting sentence was "I don't have no time for no monkey business". I just can't understand what it means. But it's more weird to see three negative particles being used in one sentence. I would consider "I don't have no time for a monkey business".

In both cases, it's non-standard dialect associated with poverty and lack of education. These double-negatives are very common in songs sung from the point of view of a poor or working-class person.

In standard English, we would say "I don't have any time for any monkey business" and "Sometimes I feel nobody gives me any warning."
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