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"Aren't I?" A hypercorrection from nonrhoticity? - Page 2 - UniLang

"Aren't I?" A hypercorrection from nonrhoticity?

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Koko
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Re: "Aren't I?" A hypercorrection from nonrhoticity?

Postby Koko » 2014-10-12, 1:11

You're argument is also slightly incorrect: the only place where it would be right to mock using "are" as the interrogative form is the "aren't it?" because the others aren't questions themselves, but leading up to a question. Since this will probably be misinterpreted (as usual), here is how it seems more accurate:

linguoboy wrote:Are it? Because, if that were true, then it is the case that I've been speaking the language incorrectly all this time, aren't it?

Where you had "if that are…" was wrong, because this a separate part of the question that states a condition (i.e subjunctive) not a question. The second error might actually be "are."
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: "Aren't I?" A hypercorrection from nonrhoticity?

Postby linguoboy » 2014-10-12, 1:56

Koko wrote:You're argument is also slightly incorrect: the only place where it would be right to mock using "are" as the interrogative form is the "aren't it?"

That wasn't the only statement I was mocking. Since you missed the rest of what he said, I've bolded the relevant bits below:
Viridzen wrote:I meant subjunctive or something. I don't know. I meant "are" could be conditional or interrogative.
Wrong on all three counts. Are is never subjunctive, never conditional, and only one among many interrogative forms. That's not "nitpicking", that's the language.
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Re: "Aren't I?" A hypercorrection from nonrhoticity?

Postby Lauren » 2014-10-12, 2:59

linguoboy wrote:
Viridzen wrote:I meant subjunctive or something. I don't know. I meant "are" could be conditional or interrogative.
Wrong on all three counts. Are is never subjunctive, never conditional, and only one among many interrogative forms. That's not "nitpicking", that's the language.

Alls I know is I know I'm not the only one on this forum that says things they don't necessarily mean. :P
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Re: "Aren't I?" A hypercorrection from nonrhoticity?

Postby linguoboy » 2014-10-12, 3:38

Lowena wrote:Alls I know is I know I'm not the only one on this forum that says things they don't necessarily mean. :P

Everyone does that sometimes. When it happens, though, doubling down is not the best response.
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Re: "Aren't I?" A hypercorrection from nonrhoticity?

Postby Koko » 2014-10-12, 5:45

linguoboy wrote:That wasn't the only statement I was mocking. Since you missed the rest of what he said, I've bolded the relevant bits below:
Viridzen wrote:I meant subjunctive or something. I don't know. I meant "are" could be conditional or interrogative.
Wrong on all three counts. Are is never subjunctive, never conditional, and only one among many interrogative forms. That's not "nitpicking", that's the language.

I stand corrected :) (is there a hint of sarcasm and/or condescension?)

Perhaps he misspoke? Or, he even misunderstood me (in regards specifically to "the interrogative form")?
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: "Aren't I?" A hypercorrection from nonrhoticity?

Postby linguoboy » 2014-10-13, 14:20

Halfdan wrote:That's the kind of thing you send in a PM

Or, preferably, not at all.

To confirm the OP's hypothesis, we need some data on the spread of aren't I?. Does it postdate the loss of rhoticity (which begins in the 15th century but doesn't gain a foothold in the standard language until the 18th) and does it occur initially in non-rhotic areas (e.g. southeast England) spreading outward from there to other varieties? I imagine the latter is probably true, since aren't I? is an artefact of the standard language and its rejection of both ain't and amn't. And, according to the OED, the first attestation for aren't I? is 1798, but without the full text, I can't tell if the speaker is supposed to be an educated one or not.

My chief objection to the hypothesis is that I don't know of any dialect in which nonrhotic /ar/ has the same vowel quality as /æ/. But there's a lot I don't know about the historical dialectology of England.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons


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