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The How do you Pronounce X Thread - Page 174 - UniLang

The How do you Pronounce X Thread

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby mōdgethanc » 2014-10-04, 20:20

Please. Every local knows it's pronounced "Chrwunna".

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Lazar Taxon » 2014-10-05, 9:45

Pff, that sounds borderline American. The correct pronunciation is [tɕʁˠʷǝ̃].
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2014-10-05, 13:21

Youngfun wrote:And you're both from Tuh-ronno!

I think I actually say it as [toɹɒndo], or at least I alternate randomly between [toɹɒndo] and [toɹɒnno].
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby dEhiN » 2014-10-05, 13:25

linguoboy wrote:
Mars80 wrote:How is the word "broccoli" pronounced for those with the lot-cloth split? Is it pronounced "brawkly" or "brockly"?

For me, it goes with lot (i.e. /ɑ/).

I pronounced them the same (lot, cloth); for those with a different pronunciation, what's the difference?
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2014-10-05, 13:35

dEhiN wrote:I pronounced them the same (lot, cloth); for those with a different pronunciation, what's the difference?

For me, the latter is rounded and the former isn't, i.e. [ɑ] vs [ɒ]. Also, because of the NCVS, my lot vowel can be as far front as [ä]. (This isn't just a Great Lakes thing, my family in St Louis have it, too.)
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Youngfun » 2014-10-05, 14:53

Why do many people, both natives and non-natives, hear the North American flap as [d]?

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Levike » 2014-10-05, 15:08

Youngfun wrote:Why do many people, both natives and non-natives, hear the North American flap as [d]?
I don't know what you mean by flap? Could you give some words for example?
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby JackFrost » 2014-10-05, 15:23

Mars80 wrote:How is the word "broccoli" pronounced for those with the lot-cloth split? Is it pronounced "brawkly" or "brockly"?

[ɑ].

Youngfun wrote:Why do many people, both natives and non-natives, hear the North American flap as [d]?

Maybe because [ɾ] sounds awfully a lot like [d] and they're not used to hearing [ɾ] to begin with. That's how allophones work: similar sounds get mapped to a phoneme, which would be /d/ and /t/ in this case.

Levike wrote:I don't know what you mean by flap? Could you give some words for example?

This.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2014-10-05, 15:23

Youngfun wrote:Why do many people, both natives and non-natives, hear the North American flap as [d]?

Because it's an allophone of /d/? Because the closest phone to [ɾ] in most languages is [d]?
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Youngfun » 2014-10-05, 15:32

But then, even many Italian speakers hear it as [d], too. And Italian has [ɾ].
Perception influenced by the spelling?

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby JackFrost » 2014-10-05, 15:43

Well I guess either spelling or the English [ɾ] doesn't sound exactly like yours.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby TeneReef » 2014-10-05, 16:07

Youngfun wrote:Why do many people, both natives and non-natives, hear the North American flap as [d]?


Because the tongue position is different than Spanish/Portuguese/Italian/Japanese/Croatian [ɾ].
JC Wells marks it with [t̬ ]: waterfall [ˈwɑːt̬ɚˌfɑːɫ]
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Lazar Taxon » 2014-10-05, 16:07

Youngfun wrote:But then, even many Italian speakers hear it as [d], too. And Italian has [ɾ].
Perception influenced by the spelling?
Our perceptions are influenced by the IPA as well: the two sounds aren't quite the same. I know that Canepari characterizes the American English sound as a flap, and the Italian or Spanish sound as a tap. I'm not expert enough to explain the technical distinction, but my sense is that the [ɾ] that I use in "ladder" has a wider point of contact than the [ɾ] that I use when speaking Spanish.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby TeneReef » 2014-10-05, 16:12

Lazar Taxon wrote:
Youngfun wrote:But then, even many Italian speakers hear it as [d], too. And Italian has [ɾ].
Perception influenced by the spelling?
Our perceptions are influenced by the IPA as well: the two sounds aren't quite the same. I know that Canepari characterizes the American English sound as a flap, and the Italian or Spanish sound as a tap; I'm not expert enough to explain the technical distinction, but my sense is that the [ɾ] that I use in "ladder" has a wider point of contact than does the [ɾ] that I use when speaking Spanish.


This is true.
[ɾ] is a strong marker of Spanish accent in English,
I hear it only on US-based Spanish channels. :lol:
While there is no phonemic difference between the Spanish [ɾ ] and the US English [t̬],
there are articulatory and acoustic differences.

I'd say the US English t in words like cotta [t̬] is
somewhere between Portuguese cara [ɾ] and cada [d], but closer to [d]:

cara...................................cotta................cada

I've only heard sounds right halfway between [ɾ] and [d] in Japanese and Malayalam
(which made my head spinning: is it an ɾ or a d? :? ).
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Koko » 2014-10-05, 20:22

It's like the case of my pronunciation of /mɪlk/ (i.e /mɛlk/ which my friends so annoyingly hear as [mʌɫk]).


How do you guys pronounce:

1. will (future copula)
2. symmetry
3. asymmetry
4. symmetrical

I say:

1. [wɛ̝̽ɫ] or (better prolly) [wɪ̞ɫ] (slightly lowered: just enough to sound more E-like)
2. [ˈsɛmɪtɹi]
3. (but) [ˈeɪsɪmɪtɹi]
4. (and) [sɪˈmɛtɹɪkəl]
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby Lauren » 2014-10-05, 20:44

Koko wrote:It's like the case of my pronunciation of /mɪlk/ (i.e /mɛlk/ which my friends so annoyingly hear as [mʌɫk]).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty62YzGryU4

I often pronounce it as something like /mɛlk/ too, although maybe slightly a lowered /mɪlk/.

Does anyone pronounce words like "thing", "think", and "drink" with a lowered vowel so it sounds somewhat like /e/? I do often.
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby TeneReef » 2014-10-05, 23:39

Lowena wrote:
Koko wrote:It's like the case of my pronunciation of /mɪlk/ (i.e /mɛlk/ which my friends so annoyingly hear as [mʌɫk]).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty62YzGryU4

I often pronounce it as something like /mɛlk/ too, although maybe slightly a lowered /mɪlk/.

Does anyone pronounce words like "thing", "think", and "drink" with a lowered vowel so it sounds somewhat like /e/? I do often.


I haven't heard [θeŋ]
but I've heard [θiŋ], with of [i]eerie or miracle...
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby mōdgethanc » 2014-10-06, 0:27

I don't slang or bang, I just smoke mothafuckas like it ain't no thang.
Lazar Taxon wrote:Pff, that sounds borderline American. The correct pronunciation is [tɕʁˠʷǝ̃].
I beg to differ. There should be aspiration, and only pretentious fucks who try to imitate the Québécois use the uvular /r/. The rest of us use a pharyngealized and labialized postalveolar approximant, thank you very much.

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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby ling » 2014-10-06, 5:29

TeneReef wrote:How do you pronounce interesting and comfortable in North American English?

/ˈɪnərestɪŋ/ or /ˈɪntrəstɪŋ/
/ˈkʌmftɚbəl/ or /ˈkʌmftəbəl/

I'm from the San Francisco Bay Area.

I say /ˈɪntrəstiŋ/ and /ˈkʌmftɚbəl/. Three-syllable words.
Native:  (en) Advanced:  (zh) Actively studying:  (th) (id) Passively dabbling:  (lkt)

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linguoboy
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Re: The How do you Pronounce X Thread

Postby linguoboy » 2014-10-06, 14:30

Lowena wrote:Does anyone pronounce words like "thing", "think", and "drink" with a lowered vowel so it sounds somewhat like /e/? I do often.

Only in jest, when I'm deliberately imitating an AAVE pronunciation (e.g. in catchphrases like "Ain't no thang").
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons


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