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Questions about Catalan - Page 6 - UniLang

Questions about Catalan

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Núria Harket
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Núria Harket » 2013-01-09, 19:38

BlackZ wrote:Tinc una pregunta:

La frase "vaig anar a Barcelona ahir" està correcta? Ho pregunto perquè el verb "anar" dues vegades... em sembla estrany.


Hola, com t'ha dit el JacFrost, la frase és perfectament corecta, sonaria més "natural" posant "ahir" al començament, però :D

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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby BlackZ » 2013-01-09, 21:22

Gràcies. Ho vaig preguntar perquè en portuguès, tenim una situació similar on s'ha d'evitar l'ús del verb "ir" (la diferencia és que utilitzem aquest verb per el futur simple, no el passat) en situacions formals.

Vou ir a Barcelona amanhã - Irei a Barcelona amanhã = Demà aniré a Barcelona.
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Saim » 2013-01-11, 10:26

BlackZ wrote:La frase "vaig anar a Barcelona ahir" està correcta? Ho pregunto perquè el verb "anar" dues vegades... em sembla estrany.


No és una forma del verb anar. Els gramàtics ho consideren quelcom diferent, car "anar" en present és:

vaig
vas
va
anem
aneu
van

mentre les conjugacions perifràstiques del passat són:

vaig + infinitiu
vas + infinitiu
va + infinitiu
vam/vàrem/(vem) + infinitiu
vau/vàreu/(veu) + infinitiu
van + infinitiu

Les formes en parèntesi són col·loquials. Amb aquestes conjugacions s'hi ha d'anar amb compte, ja que també es pot confondre amb el futur pròxim:

*vaig a + infinitiu
(vas a) + infinitiu
(va a) + infinitiu
*anem/'nem a + infinitiu
(aneu a) + infinitiu
(van a) + infinitiu

Les formes en parèntesi se solen sentir només en aquells llocs del País Valencià on es preserva el pretèrit en la parla col·loquial (sentiràs a molts valencians dient jo aní, tu començares, nosaltres vinguérem etcètera; mentre principatins i illencs només ho escriurien). "Vaig a" i "anem a" se sent força a Catalunya (si no em confonc), però no crec que això sigui normatiu. És més habitual dir "ara + futur simple" que no pas "anar a + infinitiu". Quan sents "anar a" + infinitiu més aviat serà un verb de moció (vaig a comprar = ja vaig a tal lloc, on s'hi pot comprar) o un imperatiu ('nem a prendre 'algo' = vinga va, prenguem alguna cosa).

Espero que això aclareix dubtes. :P
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby JackFrost » 2013-01-11, 19:14

Vaig a" i "anem a" se sent força a Catalunya (si no em confonc), però no crec que això sigui normatiu. És més habitual dir "ara + futur simple" que no pas "anar a + infinitiu".

Perquè ho consideren com un castellanisme.
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby BlackZ » 2013-01-21, 18:47

Gràcies. Una altra pregunta: S'utilitza "vosaltres" com segona persona (plural) sovint? O hi ha altres paraules per a això?
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Núria Harket » 2013-01-21, 20:03

BlackZ wrote:Gràcies. Una altra pregunta: S'utilitza "vosaltres" com segona persona (plural) sovint? O hi ha altres paraules per a això?


És l'únic pronom personal per la 2ª persona del plural, no n'hi ha una altra! Recorda que si el subjecte està clar o s'ha mencionat abans, els pronoms poden ser "el·líptics"

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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby JackFrost » 2013-01-21, 20:27

BlackZ wrote:Gràcies. Una altra pregunta: S'utilitza "vosaltres" com segona persona (plural) sovint? O hi ha altres paraules per a això?

Sí. Diria que no s'utilitza sovint els pronoms vostè/vostès/vós (com en castellà, però* no com en francès).

*però o sinó? :s
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Núria Harket » 2013-01-21, 20:35

vós és singular

vostès sí és plural, però és formal, és una forma respectuosa (com "ihr"-"Sie" en alemany)

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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Saim » 2013-01-24, 23:35

JackFrost wrote:
BlackZ wrote:Gràcies. Una altra pregunta: S'utilitza "vosaltres" com segona persona (plural) sovint? O hi ha altres paraules per a això?

Sí. Diria que no s'utilitza sovint els pronoms vostè/vostès/vós (com en castellà, però* no com en francès).

*però o sinó? :s

Vostè i vostès sí que se senten prou...

Vós és més aviat literari, crec. Vosaltres s'utilitza com a singular formal a la Catalunya Nord també, si no m'equivoco (crec que ho vaig llegir en un llibre d'en Joan-Lluís Lluís, un rossellonès que escriu en català).
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby JackFrost » 2013-01-25, 2:05

Saim wrote:Vós és més aviat literari, crec.

Segons "Gramàtica de la llengua catalana" per l'IEC.
Els pronoms vostè(s) i vós són formes de segona persona i fan referència, per tant, al receptor o els receptors de l’acte de parla. Dels dos pronoms, vós és el més tradicional, però ha estat progressivament desplaçat per vostè i, actualment, el primer apareix en l’ús col·loquial d’alguns parlars del Principat de Catalunya i de les Illes Balears, en els llenguatges administratiu i acadèmic, i en altres registres formals.

I és també el que els meus amics catalans que són també lingüistes em van dir com a resposta sobre l'ús del pronom "vós". Sí, crec que és més rar que "vostè(s)", però em sembla que el son ús no hagi estat reduït a les obres literàries, contràriament al pronom "nós".

Tanmateix, aquells amis no venen de Barcelona, sinó de Lleida i del Gironès respectivament. Això és potser per què et sembla literari. ^^
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Saim » 2013-02-05, 23:47

Ah, vaja, tens raó! És que clar, com que no s'usa a Barcelona en el parlar diari, només l'havia vist en un llibre que també feia ús de mots arcaics com "àdhuc". Doncs per això vaig suposar que "vós" n'era un.

Pel que fa el que va dir l'escriptor nord-català aquell sobre l'ús del "vostè" a la Catalunya Sud, ja us ho diré quan torni a Barcelona i tingui el llibre a les mans. Ara em sembla que hauria estat explicant el "vós" aquest, i no d'un ús de "vosaltres" com a singular.

I una petita correcció:

em sembla que el son seu ús no hagi ha estat reduït (o no em sembla que hagi)
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Set » 2013-02-06, 23:43

Saim wrote:Pel que fa al que va dir...


Perquè dius "s'usa"? I "car" dius ara també...mai deias aquestes paraules abans i em semblen rares.
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Lauren » 2013-02-09, 6:30

What dialect and accent is used in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUOmk6Wjf9Y

I know it's Balearic, but more specific than that, I know not.
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby JackFrost » 2013-02-09, 7:56

Since my ears aren't exactly tuned enough to distinguish the dialects spoken on the islands, I went on the Wiki to check the band's background. And it says "Majorca", which is the most populated island (almost 80% of the Balearic Islands' residents live there). Yeah, it makes sense to me.
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Lauren
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Lauren » 2013-02-09, 8:46

OK, thanks! :)
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Saim
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Saim » 2013-02-11, 1:31

Set wrote:
Saim wrote:Pel que fa al que va dir...


Perquè dius "s'usa"? I "car" dius ara també...mai deias aquestes paraules abans i em semblen rares.

Són formals. Mai no les faig servir en la vida normal, només les escric.
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Set
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Set » 2013-02-11, 7:35

Mentida podrida, t'he sentit dir 'car' també. Bueno, és igual. Quan tornes?
Native: (en) Good: (de) (ca) Focusing on: (fa) (ku) (ps) Interested in: (zza) (tr) (sw)

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Núria Harket
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Núria Harket » 2013-02-11, 20:43

Ei, ei! què ha passat? què m'he perdut????

És veritat, ningú diu "car" ni jo, que sóc una mica "rareta" quan escric a la feina, ho faig servir :para:

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Saim
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Saim » 2013-02-13, 23:43

Set wrote:Mentida podrida, t'he sentit dir 'car' també.

Hehe, suposo que va ser abans que m'en vaig adonar del registre... ara ja no ho dic, espero.

Bueno, és igual. Quan tornes?

El 23 de febrer. És una mica incomode, que el quadrimestre ja ha començat... però vaja m'hauré d'espavilar i ja està. :P Ara estic aprenent hebreu i àrab perquè no em sigui massa difícil quan torni. A vere si ho aconsegueixo.

Què tal a la feina? I com va el català? Jo ara estic intentant omplir els meus buits de lexic, utilitzant "el teu" sistema... que això faltava abans.
ماں بولی = قومی بولی

پنجابی بولو، پنجابی پڑھو، پنجابی لکھو

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Set
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Re: Questions about Catalan

Postby Set » 2013-02-14, 13:47

Saim wrote:Què tal a la feina? I com va el català? Jo ara estic intentant omplir els meus buits de lexic, utilitzant "el teu" sistema... que això faltava abans.

Haha molt bé. Però m'has de pagar si vols fer servir el meu sistema :whistle:

Feina bé. Tinc la intenció de fer l'examen de nivell C (C1), no sé si me'l aconseguiré però no costa gaire - només tindré problemes amb la secció per lexic que és superdifícil i has de saber totes les paraules i refranys més catalanes i rebuscades.
Native: (en) Good: (de) (ca) Focusing on: (fa) (ku) (ps) Interested in: (zza) (tr) (sw)


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