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UniLang • með meiru/með fleiru
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með meiru/með fleiru

Posted: 2007-11-11, 19:30
by Faselhase
What do these expressions mean?

Posted: 2007-11-11, 19:50
by nighean-neonach
Both mean "with more", "meiri" referring to uncountable, "fleiri" to countable nouns, if I am not mistaken :oops:
It would be useful to know the context to translate them appropriately, though.

Posted: 2007-11-11, 20:33
by Hunef
I guess it's the same expressions as Swedish med mera and med flera. I don't know exactly how to translate these, maybe as 'et cetera'?

Posted: 2007-11-11, 20:46
by Almar
Sæll Bartek :)

This is used to express that something/someone is much of something, basically. This is actually a rather weird expression since meira/fleira don't decline, but in these expression they're classified as indefinite pronouns. I've never seen 'með fleiru', but when fleira stands alone (hann kom ekki fleiru fyrir) it is declined too. I also think it's only used it in dative, never accusative.

Examples:
Hann er maður með meiru - He's a tough man
Hann er Íslendingur með meiru - He's a true Icelander
Hann er nasisti með meiru - He's a dedicated Nazi
Hann er óþokki með meiru - He's a real scumbag

etc.

I hope this answered your question..

Posted: 2007-11-11, 21:25
by Faselhase
Thank you, it explains a lot :D

Posted: 2007-11-11, 21:43
by nighean-neonach
Cool, it's good to know such idiomatic expressions.

Posted: 2007-11-13, 22:06
by deardron
I think that gramatically expressions like með meiru, ásamt fleirum etc. show penetration of strong declension into the world of adjectives in comparative degree that normally follow the weak declension. However, as modern Icelandic shows, when substantived, i.e. in independent position they take up strong declension, i.e. með meiru, með fleirum instead of með meira, með fleiri.

Posted: 2007-11-14, 0:22
by Egein
Sverrir Páll skrifaði litla færslu um þetta:

http://www.svp.is/articles/mannamal/af_meiru_og_fleiru/

Re: með meiru/með fleiru

Posted: 2013-05-21, 14:05
by linggrammar
Hello,

In short, the form "fleirum" is not a strong ending, b ut rather a "weak" ending, a vestige from the older language. In the dative plural, weak adjectives used to end in "-um". Leveling occurred whereby the ending is now "-u". This form is only used when alone. Compare: ásamt fleiri mönnum vs. ásamt fleirum

Also, the dative singular neuter comparative form ending in “-u” is indeed an innovation and, as you said, is “strong”. Recall: Ég bjóst við meiru/verru/osv.[etc.] “I expected more/worse/etc.” Some other comparative forms of adjectives outside of “meira” and “fleira” can also be declined “strong” in such instances.

Best,

Josef

p.s. I am writing in English since the topic discussion was in English. Feel free to respond in Icelandic, and I will do the same.

Re: með meiru/með fleiru

Posted: 2013-05-25, 23:54
by dunkelwald
linggrammar wrote:In short, the form "fleirum" is not a strong ending, b ut rather a "weak" ending, a vestige from the older language. In the dative plural, weak adjectives used to end in "-um". Leveling occurred whereby the ending is now "-u". This form is only used when alone. Compare: ásamt fleiri mönnum vs. ásamt fleirum.


You're confusing weak and strong declension. If anything, forms such as fleirum belong to a strong declension pattern rather than a weak declension pattern, but then again, both Old and Modern Icelandic comparatives do NOT exhibit patterns that correspond to the weak declension in the positive and the superlative 100%, although the comparative declension could be considered weak in Old Icelandic in general.

Forms like fleirum do occur in Old Icelandic in the dative plural of comparatives (see Noreen 1923: 297, §435 for declension tables (spǫkurum is his example of a dative plural)), even though the general declension of the comparative is much closer to the weak declension than to the strong declension of adjectives in the positive.

What you say in replying to this 6 year old topic is the nearly the absolute reverse (you seem not to be taking into account that the declension of positives NEVER resembled that of the comparatives 100%, in all of attested history) of what is the truth.

Best regards

dunkelwald

References:

Noreen, Adolf (1923): Altisländische und altnorwegische Grammatik (Laut- und Flexionslehre). Unter Berücksichtigung des Urnordischen. Vierte vollständig umgearbeitete Auflage. Halle (Saale): Niemeyer.