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Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions - Page 27 - UniLang

Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Moderator: Babelfish

Golv
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2013-12-30, 0:01

Why, פ-ע-ל, of course.

But this may not count. כ-ת-ב is another one, off the top of my head.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby רוקח » 2013-12-30, 3:57

יש לי שעלה

איך אומרים
This is the best pizza i have had

I would think זו הפיצה הכי טובה שהיתה לי
but is it really said this way


גם מה ההבדל בין לשתוף לרחוץ ו לכבס

so all these mean to wash, but what is the most common colloquial way to say

I am washing my hands, washing the clothes, washing the dishes, or are all used interchangeably.

מראש תודה

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Kuba » 2013-12-30, 11:34

@Golv: Thanks, but פ-ע-ל doesn't count. :) כ-ת-ב does not conjugate in Pu'al, though, or does it?
@רוקח: In the pizza sentence I would replace the שהיתה לי part by שאכלתי. And as far as I know, you can't use the different verbs for "to wash" interchangeably. But wait for a native speaker to correct or reassert this...
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Golv » 2013-12-30, 15:26

Kuba wrote:@Golv: Thanks, but פ-ע-ל doesn't count. :) כ-ת-ב does not conjugate in Pu'al, though, or does it?

It does, though it isn't common in use.
I can think of a few more roots that conjugate in all binyanim, but it won't be easy to find one whose all 7 forms are equally common in use.
@רוקח: In the pizza sentence I would replace the שהיתה לי part by שאכלתי. And as far as I know, you can't use the different verbs for "to wash" interchangeably. But wait for a native speaker to correct or reassert this...

That's right. לכבס is to wash clothes/do laundry; לשטוף and לרחוץ could often be used interchangeably, except that לרחוץ could also mean "to bathe" and is generally more thorough or intentful in connotation. In certain cases one might be more appropriate than the other.

edit: I should refine this. I think it will be more accurate to say that לרחוץ usually involves submerging the object under water (or some other liquid) in the process of cleaning it while לשטוף is applying water to it in some manner (e.g. through a tap or wet towel) and not necessarily in the intention to make it cleaner; my associated connotations in respect to each verb must derive from these facts.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby AlanF_US » 2013-12-30, 21:55

I've found out that "great-grandfather" can be translated as "סבא רבא". I've seen "great-great-grandfather" translated as "סבא של סבא", and presumably "great-great-great-grandfather" could be translated as "סבא של סבא רבא". However, I'm wondering if there's a way to translate it that's more akin to the English pattern of an affix that you can add for each generation, rather than using a "סבא של" to represent each two generations and then throwing in a "רבא" at the end if necessary. Also, is there a "סב רב" for Hebrew non-Aramaic purists? Finally, what about the feminine forms of all of these?

While I'm at it, what's the colloquial way to say "second cousin" and "second cousin once removed"? (A second cousin once removed is the child of a second cousin.) Morfix says:

דּוֹדָן מִדַּרְגָּה שְׁנִיָּה, בן דוד מדרגה שנייה

which seems a bit wordy. (Also, is "דודן" a frequently used equivalent of "בן דוד"? What's the feminine, "דודנית"?)

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby רוקח » 2014-01-04, 0:10

תודה על התשובות

So I think לשתוף is more like "to rinse". And if I want to say i'm washing dishes/ or my hands I use אני רוחץ את הכלים או ידיים.

I"m sure you can also say i'm cleaning the dishes as well correct?

I have been having issues with how to say that something is done/ finished in hebrew.

What is the most common way to say "When will the laundry be done?" or "The coffee is done (brewing)". or "I am done/finished" or "when will we be done"

Here's my attempts

מתי ייגמר הכביסה

הקפה נגמר

אני גמור

תודה רבה לכולנו

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Babelfish » 2014-01-04, 13:56

@ AlanF_US: I think Hebrew has significantly less words for remote relatives. There doesn't seem to exist a pure-Hebrew equivalent of סבא-רבא (of which the feminine is סבתא-רבא), and I don't know of any regular or formal way to name earlier ancestors. Same for בן-דוד מדרגה שנייה which is probably an English calque.
As for דודן, yes, the feminine is דודנית, but both are rather formal and not often used in speech.

@ רוקח: I actually tend to say אני שוטף ידיים / כלים but I think רוחץ is fine as well, there may be a slight difference in meaning as Golv mentioned but they're quite interchangeable.
Regarding done / finished: the English sense of "ready" is not really used in Hebrew. The only close usage is in cases similar to your first example: מתי הכביסה תגמור / תסיים? (colloquial) - meaning actually when will the washing machine finish. Otherwise, I would say:
The coffee is done - הקפה מוכן
I am done/finished - אני סיימתי / גמרתי (the sentence אני גמור has a different meaning - in slang, it mean "I'm exhausted"...)
When will we be done - מתי נסיים / נגמור
In the latter cases, גמר is somewhat more colloquial than סיים.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Adinomis » 2014-01-11, 12:46

According to Wikipedia a Jewish prayer is written:

ברוך אתה ה' אלהינו, מלך העולם...

Transliteration: Barukh ata Adonai Eloheinu, melekh ha'olam...

Translation: "Blessed are You, LORD our God, King of the universe..."

But I don't read the name Adonai in the Hebreuw characters. The same in other sites. Why?
And why Eloheinu is written instead of Elohim? I suppose it has to do with "our".

I should like to have this prayer with vowels added.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Kuba » 2014-01-12, 10:29

Adinomis wrote:But I don't read the name Adonai in the Hebreuw characters. The same in other sites. Why?
And why Eloheinu is written instead of Elohim? I suppose it has to do with "our".

You don't read "adonai" because it is not a name, but a noun with a meaning akin to "lord". What is written instead is two yods. But these stand for the holy name of God, and you are not supposed to pronounce it. So you simply say "lord" (some people use other titles) when you encounter it in a text.
You are right about the "our"-part of Elohim. "Elohim" is an absolute form of a noun. If they combine with other nouns or some suffixes, nouns change to their "status constructus" form:
elohim > elohey- > elohey+nu > eloheynu = "our God"
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2014-01-12, 11:43

I was going to say the same as Kuba, but I didn't see YHWH (יהוה) written, so I thought I was missing something. We habitually substituted Adonai for YHWH in my Biblical Hebrew class.

Most of the prayers I've seen are pointed, much like the Bible or poetry. Odd that Wikipedia doesn't do the same. Is it a specific prayer?

EDIT: I just checked out the wikipedia article and it made me ask, is hey yod a way of representing YHWH? I've never seen that before. :hmm:

I also see that it's not any oarticular prayer, but just a general opening to any (?) prayer.
þūhte mē þæt ic gesāwe syllicre trēow on lyft lædan lēohte bewunden bēama beorhtost.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Adinomis » 2014-01-12, 22:51

Thank you for help!
I tried to vowel the prayer by myself. Is't correct?

בּרוּך אַתָּה הֹאֱלהֵינוּ מְלֶךְ העוֺלם

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Kuba » 2014-01-12, 23:07

As księżycowy said, this part is just an opening of most prayers, especially the daily ones for blessing meals, beverages, hand-washing and G'd knows what... You can find a version with niqqud and even cantillation here - although the "ata" is written funnily, and "eloheynu" should have a hataf segol.
@księżycowy: AFAIK the double-yod stands for "adonai" or the tetragrammaton, respectively.
@Adinomis: Some niqqud is missing - kamats below the first bet in "baruch"; yod-yod with shwa-kamats should follow the "ata"; hey-kholam before "eloheynu" is not necessary; "melekh" is a segolatum, so you should write two segol (not a shwa under the mem); the hey of "haolam" should have a kamats, the kholam should be above the waw, not beside it - and there should be a kamats below the lamed. Sorry that I don't type it out and paste it - it's too late and I just returned from a party... Writing Hebrew is no problem, but I don't know how to type the niqqud...
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Babelfish » 2014-01-17, 15:18

It's not hey yod, but rather hey apostrophe - ה' - which is indeed a common representation of YHWH, quite like יְיָ
Niqqud in Hebrew can be entered on Windows but with a rather cumbersome method - set Caps Lock on, then hold Shift and press the appropriate key from the number line (including `, - and =). You have to keep holding Shift in order to enter Hebrew letters as well, since Caps Lock makes them enter English capital letters by default...
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מן המקום בו אנו צודקים לא יפרחו לעולם פרחים באביב (יהודה עמיחי)
From the place where we are in the right, flowers will never grow in the spring (Yhuda Amihay)

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby księżycowy » 2014-01-17, 16:14

Ah, that pesky apostrophe! It still trips me up. Unless the font is just right I think it's a yod. :lol:

Thanks for the explanation Bablefish!

As for typing in the niqqud, I use the Logos Hebrew keyboard. It does a damn good job of matching the standard English qwerty layout and is much easier the type vowels in, as it's meant for Biblical Hebrew. If anyone is Interested, I can post a link.
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Adinomis » 2014-01-20, 13:24

I like to ask a very controversial question. It has to do with the word עוֹלָם , which means: world, universe. But in Genesis 17:7,8 this word is translated as "everlasting".

I want to know if this is really an everlasting promise.

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Saim » 2014-01-21, 4:19

Hello everyone, I was just studying Hebrew for an upcoming exam, and the following sentence came up in one of the practice exams:

130. הוא הרוויח הרבה כסף כשהוא עבד כעוזרת בית.


Now, as far as I can tell this sentence means; "He will make a lot of money when he works as a maid." :?: That's either a weird sentence or the fact that it's 5 in the morning is taking a toll on my mental faculties. Have I got the meaning of the sentence right?
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Mikey93 » 2014-01-21, 21:35

Adinomis wrote:I like to ask a very controversial question. It has to do with the word עוֹלָם , which means: world, universe. But in Genesis 17:7,8 this word is translated as "everlasting".

I want to know if this is really an everlasting promise.


"Olam" meaning "universe, world" is the most common usage, but it also means eternity as you noticed. It's used a lot in this sense throughout the Bible. Nevertheless, just one example comes to my mind. That is from Shema prayer. There you have as follows:
ברוך שם כבוד מלכותו לעולם ועד

Blessed be the name of His glorious kingdom for ever and ever.

Saim wrote:Hello everyone, I was just studying Hebrew for an upcoming exam, and the following sentence came up in one of the practice exams:

130. הוא הרוויח הרבה כסף כשהוא עבד כעוזרת בית.


Now, as far as I can tell this sentence means; "He will make a lot of money when he works as a maid." :?: That's either a weird sentence or the fact that it's 5 in the morning is taking a toll on my mental faculties. Have I got the meaning of the sentence right?


That's right. You just mixed the tenses. It's all in past tense, first is hif'il verb and second pa'al.
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Babelfish
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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Babelfish » 2014-01-24, 15:16

The sentence is weird, because עוזרת בית is female and the subject is masculine... but Hebrew doesn't have a masculine for it - עוזר בית sounds no less weird :?
Adding to Mikey's answer regarding עולם: the sense of eternity still remains in the very common expression מעולם (never, referring to the past) and לעולם (never, referring to the future).
Native languages: Hebrew (he) & English (en)

מן המקום בו אנו צודקים לא יפרחו לעולם פרחים באביב (יהודה עמיחי)
From the place where we are in the right, flowers will never grow in the spring (Yhuda Amihay)

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Lazar Taxon » 2014-01-29, 16:57

What's your advice on pronouncing glottal stops (that is, א and ע), like in [jisʁaˈʔel]? Does it sound too formal or stilted to pronounce them all?
Native:  (en-us) Good:  (es)  (fr) Okay:  (de)  (la) Beginning:  (it) Interested in:  (he)  (hi)  (ru)

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Re: Discussion Group for General Hebrew Questions

Postby Babelfish » 2014-01-31, 15:26

I wouldn't say so, but it would sound a bit weird. Unless you want to practice their pronunciation, or want to clarify what you say (in which case native speakers might also pronounce them clearly), you can elide them most of the time.


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