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Modern Israeli Hebrew Course - Page 4 - UniLang

Modern Israeli Hebrew Course

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Psi-Lord
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Postby Psi-Lord » 2004-08-15, 19:16

Matan, as I went through the lesson, I thought of adding a few more cities and countries to my list, names that would be more 'familiar' for me. Can you check them, please, so I'm sure there's no mistake?

ארגנטינה:‏
בואנוס אירס

ברזיל:‏
ברזיליה
לונדרינה
סאו פאולו
קורטיבה
ריו דה-ז'נירו

פורטוגל:‏
ליסבון

I haven't given their translations because I thought it might be fun for others to try and guess which is which. ;)

The topic, 'ארצות ועירים', was an attempt to write 'Countries and Cities', but I may have messed it up, hehe... One of my sources mentioned עיר as having an irregular plural (feminine word with a masculine plural form), but others didn't say a thing...
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Angry_NulNuk

Postby Angry_NulNuk » 2004-08-15, 21:43

Buenos Aires = בואנוס איירס

Rio de Janeiro = ריו דה-ז'ניירו

when a consonant have a voble between it and the yod ,
then the yod is doubled usually ,so ppl will be able to
read it right ,or if not than ppl may read :
Buenos Ires and Rio de Janiro ,that spesially is used
for forenge (non Hebrew )words and names .

The topic, 'ארצות ועירים', was an attempt to write 'Countries and Cities', but I may have messed it up, hehe... One of my sources mentioned עיר as having an irregular plural (feminine word with a masculine plural form), but others didn't say a thing...


its Ariym ,not Iriym ,with out the yod .
and Yir is a femenin word ,yes ,that happen alot in Hebrew
that words lost their sex in plural ,its a very confusing
thing even for Hebrew natives ,and many get confused allso .
its a hard thing to explane (espesially for a dislective like me :0{ )
but I`m sure Matan will be able to give some explanation ,
probably better than me .

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Postby Psi-Lord » 2004-08-16, 3:04

Well, I haven't finished all the exercises yet, but here are those I've done so far.

1. Sentences:

המורה רוצה לכם עם מרגרינה.‏
אני רוצה מים עם סכר.‏
אתה רוצה גלידה ושוקולד?‏
היא רוצה תה עם סכר.‏
היא גם רוצה קפה?‏
מה הילדה רוצה?‏
הוא רוצה מיץ ולחם.‏

2. Marking the unrelated words:

א. טלוויזיה, רדיו, וידאו, שוקולד
ב. יידיש, עם, אנגלית, גרמנית
ג. מה, רק, מאין, מי
ד. רוצה, לומד, מתנה, שותה

Angry_NulNuk wrote:when a consonant have a voble between it and the yod ,
then the yod is doubled usually ,so ppl will be able to
read it right ,or if not than ppl may read :
Buenos Ires and Rio de Janiro ,that spesially is used
for forenge (non Hebrew )words and names .

Thanks for the input, NulNuk. :) As Matan knows, that's my 'eternal' struggle with voweled and non-voweled spelling. I usually learn new words (out of the thread) with the vowel points, and forget that, when they're not used, some spelling changes may be needed.

Angry_NulNuk wrote:its Ariym ,not Iriym ,with out the yod .

Ah, good, got to find that in the dictionary now. :) Thanks again. Do you happen to know if עירים was possible for Biblical Hebrew, though? I ask so because I rechecked and, indeed, two of my sources give it spelled like that, but since their focus is on Biblical Hebrew, I'd like to know whether they're correct about it or just wrong.
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Postby matan » 2004-08-16, 8:27

שלום:)

(Angry :x ) Nul_Nuk wrote:

its Ariym ,not Iriym ,with out the yod .
and Yir is a femenin word ,yes ,that happen alot in Hebrew
that words lost their sex in plural


Well, I would say this differently.. words don't lose their gender in plural in Hebrew, since their following adjectives still agree with them in gender and number.. I think that a better thing to say is that in Hebrew, the plural suffixes ים and ות both are signals of plurality, it happened to be that most suffixed ים words are masculine and most ות suffixed words are feminine.. :)


Psi-Lord:
Do you happen to know if עירים was possible for Biblical Hebrew, though? I ask so because I rechecked and, indeed, two of my sources give it spelled like that, but since their focus is on Biblical Hebrew, I'd like to know whether they're correct about it or just wrong.


In biblical Hebrew it is the same spelling as in modern Hbrew, עיר>ערים.
עירים, 'ayirim, would be the plural of עיר ,'ayir - donkey foal..lol
now tow corrections Psi-Lord :)

המורה רוצה לכם עם מרגרינה.

המורה רוצה לחם* עם מרגרינה

אני רוצה מים עם סכר.‏
אתה רוצה גלידה ושוקולד?‏
היא רוצה תה עם סכר


סוכר*

Angry Nul_nuk wrote:
when a consonant have a voble between it and the yod ,
then the yod is doubled usually ,so ppl will be able to
read it right ,or if not than ppl may read :
Buenos Ires and Rio de Janiro ,that spesially is used
for forenge (non Hebrew )words and names .


I think that this is right 8)

It's such a beautiful day today :D

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Possession

Postby Psi-Lord » 2004-08-17, 3:49

I spent the day retyping and reviewing the four lessons and the notes, so I'll probably have the other exercises ready by tomorrow. :)

A question, though —is expressing possession difficult in Hebrew? I mean, besides the copula, that seems to be a point different languages often happen to have pretty difference approaches to. I came to think about it after reading a short text in Hebrew I found online. It was about המשפחה, that is, the family. There were two sentences that caught my attention:

לבוב משפחה גדולה.‏
Bob has a large family.
יש לו ישה וחמיש ילדים.‏
He has a wife and five kids.

Even though the exact grammar of the second sentence is still unknown to me, it seems easy to see that the idea is expressed in two different ways. Though risking disrupting the grammar flow of Matan's lessons, what can you tell me about Hebrew possession?

--

As a side note, I'd like to point that it was very curious, in my opinion, that, while still describing the family, we had the following sentences:

לג'יימס חבר, ג'רי.‏
James has a friend, Jerry.
ג'יימס וג'רי עליזים.‏
James and Jerry are gay.

It must be pretty unusual to find this in beginners' textbooks. :)
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Re: Possession

Postby Maja » 2004-08-17, 10:19

Psi-Lord wrote:
לבוב משפחה גדולה.‏
Bob has a large family.
יש לו ישה וחמיש ילדים.‏
He has a wife and five kids.


Somehow I miss word יש in the first sentence. Could it be:
לבוב יש משפחה גדולה.‏
:?: :?:

I remember from my book that the phrase " x yיש ל " could be translated to x belongs to y or simplier y has x.

I hope Matan can explain it.

--

As a side note, I'd like to point that it was very curious, in my opinion, that, while still describing the family, we had the following sentences:

לג'יימס חבר, ג'רי.‏
James has a friend, Jerry.
ג'יימס וג'רי עליזים.‏
James and Jerry are gay.

It must be pretty unusual to find this in beginners' textbooks. :)

Very very liberal indeed! I bet it is not American! :lol: :lol:
Maja

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Postby matan » 2004-08-18, 6:23

שלום
I'm writing this at work, tired as hell,after getting drunk at my cousin's weddings party and draged by my dad to the car after dancing too much... 8)

To mark Possesion in Hebrew there are several constructions, with different functions.

I will start with Maja's correction to Psi-Lord. Maja wrote:

Somehow I miss word יש in the first sentence. Could it be:
לבוב יש משפחה גדולה.‏


Maja, you are right, but soon I'll explain, why Psi-Lord is right too

In modern Hebrew, there is a exsistential-possesion construction:

"x yיש ל ", (yesh le-y x) which is translated as: Y has x, when x is not definite. when it is definite
this construction changes a bit ( although deffenetly forbbiden by the Hebrew Language Academy!!)


"xאת ה yיש ל " (yesh le-y et ha-x).

exampels: למתן יש חבר= Lematan yesh khaver= Matan has a boyfriend/friend..

In order to negate this construction, one has to replace יש (yesh) with אין (ein)

למתן אין חבר= le-matan ein khaver= Matan doesn't have a boyfriend

The ל preposition, as all other prepositions in hebrew, can be conjugated according to persons= suffix pronouns are added to the ל..

יש לי ספר=yesh li sefer= I have a book.

Now, in ancient Hebrew, until the 50s of the 20th century, there was another construction in use, the on that Psi-Lord wrote, today this construction is in use only in literature . In this construction there is a use in the preposition ל (le-).

לאב בן= "to the father a son"= la'av ben ( la= le+ha= ל+הpreposition=definite article), as we can see, in this construction the possesor must be definite, while the possesed noun is indefinite.

In addition to these constructions, there are other possesion constructions, which are translated as my, your etc.

1. adding suffix pronouns to the noun= sefer ספר= a book ספרי sifri= my book, ספרך sifrekha=your book etc.

this possesion construction is not so much in use in the spoken language.

2. using the possesion preposition של =shel, that we have already talked about in one of the previous lessons.. This is the most common way to posses things in spoken hebrew.

Psi-Lord wrote:

As a side note, I'd like to point that it was very curious, in my opinion, that, while still describing the family, we had the following sentences:

לג'יימס חבר, ג'רי.‏
James has a friend, Jerry.
ג'יימס וג'רי עליזים.‏
James and Jerry are gay.

It must be pretty unusual to find this in beginners' textbooks.



well, I'm almost sure that it was written by israelis Israel is a very open country for gays, so guys! you are all welcome here!!! lol :oops:

להתראות!! מתן
Last edited by matan on 2004-08-18, 10:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Maja » 2004-08-18, 8:50

Thanks, Matan!
I wish you had been around when I dealt with this "Everyday's Hebrew" course for the first time. I should go through it once again and pick out issues which still bother me. :wink:

Yes, that את. I've never really got it, when I must use it. :?

Btw, what I really like in Hebrew is this so called (at least in English) "construct state" of the nouns or saying simplier how to put two nouns together if one is subordinate to another.
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Postby Maja » 2004-08-18, 8:54

matan wrote:שלום
I'm writing this at work, tired as hell,after getting drunk at my cousin's weddings party and draged by my dad to the car after dancing too much... 8)

I can imagine. :P I hope you are fine by now! :D
Maja

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Postby matan » 2004-08-18, 11:01

שלום:)
Maja:
I should go through it once again and pick out issues which still bother me.

Yes, you should! :)

Yes, that את. I've never really got it, when I must use it.

I dont want to answer this yet, I want to do it a bit later...

Btw, what I really like in Hebrew is this so called (at least in English) "construct state" of the nouns or saying simplier how to put two nouns together if one is subordinate to another.

about this construction i'll talk a bit later too, you are right this is really a nice thing in Hebrew.. it exists also in other semitic languages, such as arabic, aramaic etc.

I can imagine.


Well, it was much more embarrassing than u think...lol... :oops: :)

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Cities & countries

Postby Psi-Lord » 2004-08-22, 0:52

Continuing the exercises from last lesson, here are the city / country names.

אנגליה זאת ארץ.‏
גרמניה זאת ארץ.‏
דניה זאת ארץ.‏
טורונטו זאת עיר.‏
ירדן זאת ארץ.‏
יריחו זאת עיר.‏
ישראל זאת ארץ.‏
לונדון זאת עיר.‏
מקסיקו זאת ארץ.‏
עירק זאת ארץ.‏
אירן זאת ארץ.‏
תימן זאת ארץ.‏
אתונה זאת עיר.‏

Thanks for the info regarding Hebrew possession, Matan —I was really curious about it. :)

matan wrote:"x yיש ל ", (yesh le-y x) which is translated as: Y has x, when x is not definite. when it is definite
this construction changes a bit ( although deffenetly forbbiden by the Hebrew Language Academy!!)

"xאת ה yיש ל " (yesh le-y et ha-x).

exampels: למתן יש חבר= Lematan yesh khaver= Matan has a boyfriend/friend.

May I also ask you what is the construction the Hebrew Academy would use in this case?

matan wrote:In order to negate this construction, one has to replace יש (yesh) with אין (ein)

למתן אין חבר= le-matan ein khaver= Matan doesn't have a boyfriend

Is the word order free (for both the affirmative and negative), or would there be any changes if one said, e.g., אין למתן חבר.‏ instead?

matan wrote:The ל preposition, as all other prepositions in hebrew, can be conjugated according to persons= suffix pronouns are added to the ל.

יש לי ספר=yesh li sefer= I have a book.

I'd read about that before, and it's indeed a cool, interesting feature of Hebrew! :)

matan wrote:לאב בן= "to the father a son"= la'av ben ( la= le+ha= ל+ה preposition=definite article), as we can see, in this construction the possesor must be definite, while the possesed noun is indefinite.

In current modern Hebrew, that'd be יש לאב בן.‏ then?

And, regarding the two possessive constructions you've also presented, סוסי and סוס של אני would be synonyms then, with the latter being more common in the spoken language?
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Postby matan » 2004-08-22, 5:58

‏ שלום, פסי-לורד, אתה כותב (you write):
אנגליה זאת ארץ.‏
דניה זאת ארץ.‏
טורונטו זאת עיר.‏
ירדן זאת ארץ.‏
יריחו זאת עיר.‏
ישראל זאת ארץ.‏
לונדון זאת עיר.‏
מקסיקו זאת ארץ.‏
עירק זאת ארץ.‏
אירן זאת ארץ.‏
תימן זאת ארץ.‏
אתונה זאת עיר.‏

And that's very correct.. :)


May I also ask you what is the construction the Hebrew Academy would use in this case?


They would ommit the prepositon et =את... They see the adding of the preposition את , here, as an influence of foreign languages, especially Indo-European, since in those languages, this construction demands direct object while this is not the situation in Hebrew so את is not needed..
Is the word order free (for both the affirmative and negative), or would there be any changes if one said, e.g., אין למתן חבר.‏ instead?


Correct, you can play with the word order, but watch out! the part of the sentence you put in the beginning is in fucus!
In current modern Hebrew, that'd be יש לאב בן.‏ then?


Well, you are right..

And, regarding the two possessive constructions you've also presented, סוסי and סוס של אני would be synonyms then, with the latter being more common in the spoken language?


That's true, with one correction, there is no use in the independant pronouns after prepositions in Hebrew, instead Hebrew uses the suffix pronouns, so that would change your sentence סוס של אני into סוס שלי...

תודה פסי-לורד!
להתראות, מתן.

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Postby matan » 2004-08-22, 9:09

שלום, :)
And welcome to our 5th Hebrew lesson. In this time we will learn 3 new letters, tow new prepositions, one new verb, with which we can say what languages we speak, and about whom we gossip or talk, and the Hebrew for "there is/are", "there is/are not"…These are the new letters:
ב=bet=b
כ=kaf=k
פ=pe=p

This letters change their sound when they are not anymore in the beginning of the word or of a syllable into v/kh/f, respectively.

OK, as usual, a list of words to read:

אבא, אשכולית, בננה, יפן, כיתה, מוזיאון, משפחה, סוכר, סופרמרקט, פוליטיקה, פולין, תאטרון, פורטוגל.

(aba=dad, eshkolit=grapefruit, banana, Yapan=Japan, kita=class room, muzeon=museum, mishpakha=family, sukar=sugar, supermarket, politika=politics, Polin=Poland, teatron=theatre, Portugal)

now, another words to be learnt are:
פה=po= here
בית=bait=house/home

Now we are going to our new verb:
מדבר=medaber= speak (m. sg.)
מדברת= medaberet=speak (f.sg.)
מדברים= medabrim= speak (m.pl.)
מדברות=medabrot= speak (f.pl.)

Notice the "music" of the verb, MeXaXeX, MeXaXeXeT, MeXaXXim, MeXaXXot.
The Xs Represent the letters of the root of the word, in our case D.B.R.
=ד.ב.ר

Maybe now you will remember that there was something common in the music of the verbs that we have already learnt…
רוצה, רוצה, רוצים רוצות: שותה , שותה , שותים, שותות.

Before we read the next lines, one more thing: In Hebrew in many cases we add a suffix to the name of the country or nation, in order to create a language name.
ית the suffix is
so:
אנגליה=אנגלית
גרמניה=גרמנית
פורטוגל=פורטוגלית
יפןפנית
שוודיה=שוודית
דנמרק=דנית
אני מדבר עברית= ani medaber Ivrit= I speak Hebrew

Can you create such sentences with other languages names and other personal pronouns? (remember to inflect the verb)..

OK, now the sentences, I think that by reading them you can guess the meaning of the
the preposition al= על

פול מאנגליה. הוא מדבר אנגלית. הוא מדבר על פוליטיקה ועל המשפחה.
Poul me-Anglia. Hu medaber anglit. Hu medaber al politika ve-al-ha-mishpakha.


מרסל ואלכסנדר מברזיל. הם מדברים פורטוגלית. הם מדברים על הכול!הכול="the everything"=ha-kol
Mario ve-Alexander mi-Brazil. Hem medabrim portugalit. Hem medabrim al ha-kol!


מאיה מסלובניה, היא מדברת סלובנית, היא מדברת על הבית ועל התאטרון.
Maja me-Estonia. Hi medaberet estonit. Hi medaberet al ha-bait ve-al ha-teatron.

על= about/ over/ on

Before we learn the "there is" sentences, I would like to give you tow more verbs. One is in the "music" of
שותה, שותה שותים שותות XoXe, XoXa, XoXim, XoXot :

And one in the music of
לומד לומדת לומדים לומדותXoXeX, XoXeXet, XoXXim, XoXXot :

The first verb is with the root SH.'.L
ש.א.ל=ask
שואל, שואלת, שואלים, שואלות
So'el, Sho'elet, Sho'alim(!), Sho'alot(!)

The second verb is with the root :
ע.נ.ה=answer
עונה, עונה, עונים, עונות=one, ona, onim, onot

After we now these verbs, let's learn the "there is" thing…

To say there is we simply say:
"יש + X" = yesh + indefinite noun
and to negate this construction we say:
"אין+X"= ein + indefinite noun
דוגמות:
יש לחם= yesh lekhem= there (is) bread
אין לחם= ein lekhem= there (is no) bread

dialog: read it aloud, and then try to translate it..
דויד שואל: יש קוקה-קולה? יש גלידה? יש סוכר?
דניאל עונה: לא, אין קוקה-קולה, אין לחם ואין סוכר.
דויד שואל: ולימון? לימון יש?
דניאל עונה: לימון? כן, לימון יש.

I'll ask you a question and you answer me in both ways. Example:
אני שואל: יש קוקה קולה?
אתם עונים: כן, יש קוקה קולה.
לא, אין קוקה-קולה.
Replace Coca-Cola with those things:
מלח, תפוזים, שוקולד, בננות.
(תפוז=tapuz=orange)

In order to read the next dialog we need to learn a new preposition:
ב=be=in

if there is a definition article after the preposition, it changes its sound to "ba" and the article falls..

מה יש בסופרמרקט?=ma yesh BAsupermarket= what there (is) in THE supermarket

מה יש בסופרמרקט?
ילד: בסופרמרקט יש בננות?
אימא :לא, אין שם בננות.
ילד: בסופרמרקט יש אשכולית?
אימא כן בסופרמרקט יש אשכולית.
ילד ויש תפוז בסופרמרקט?
אימא: הממ... תפוז? תפוז יש שם.
ילד: ואימא!! גם יש סוכר בסופר??
אימא: כן!! יש גם סוכר שם!!!

Ma yesh ba-supermarket?

Yeled: ba-supermarket yesh bananot?
Ima: Lo, ein sham bananot.
Yeled: ba-supermarket yesh eshkolit?
Ima:ken, basupermarket yesh eshkolit.
Yeled:ve-yesh tapuz ba-supermarket?
Ima:hmmm… tapuz? Tapuz yesh sham.
Yeled: ve-ima!!! Gam yesh sukar ba-super??
Ima:ken!!! Yesh gam sukar sham!!!


Well, thats all for now, i gotta run to work... :evil: :twisted:

HAVE A BEAUTYFUL DAY , להתראות, מתן.

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ה

Postby Lynch » 2004-08-22, 14:30

מה העניינים?
תקשיב, הייתי רוצה ליצור איתך קשר דרך אייסיקיו או אימייל או משו... אני ממבר של יונילאנג אבל הפסקתי להשתתף בפורומים השונים עקב הגיוס...

הייתי רוצה לשאול אותך מספר שאלות על הלימודים שלך, אם תרצה.

אנא צור איתי קשר במספר אייסיקיו 81340220
או באימייל, בכתובת: ToTaL_MezZ@Hotmail.Com
או אפילו תשאיר לי כא הודעה באתר שאתה מוכן.

תודה מראש,
לינץ'.
אתה מתחיל הכי מהר שלך, ולאט-לאט אתה מגביר

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Postby matan » 2004-08-22, 14:54

שלום:) צור קשר מתי שבא לך:))
לא הצלחתי לכתוב לך מהאימייל שלי...מתן.

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"ר"

Postby Psi-Lord » 2004-08-22, 15:48

Cool, one more lesson. :)

A question about the pronunciation of ר —is there more than a way to pronounce it at all? I mean, I'd once read that it was similar to the Spanish r, and that's the pronunciation I had in mind till a couple of days ago, when I ran into some audio files (from http://www.milingua.com/) and found out it was nothing like it. :shock: So now, my main problem seems to be keeping ר,‎ כ,‎ ח and ה apart. :P

And nice to see you're still alive and around, Lynch. :)

matan wrote:there is no use in the independant pronouns after prepositions in Hebrew, instead Hebrew uses the suffix pronouns, so that would change your sentence סוס של אני into סוס שלי...

Ah, indeed. :oops: I should write 'סוס שלי' a hundred times on the blackboard now. ;)

Psi-Lord wrote:I've got just one song in Hebrew in my PC: 'כשהלב בוכה', by שרית חדד. I have no idea what the title means, though —can I have a translation, please? :)

After finding out that 'כאשר' may indeed be shortened to 'כש' (and attached to the following word), I gave it another try myself —does that mean 'When the Heart Cries'?

‏כש > כאשר = when‏
‏הלב = ה + לב = the heart‏
‏בוכה > בכה = to cry, weep‏
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Angry_NulNuk

Postby Angry_NulNuk » 2004-08-22, 22:34

לינץ !!!!!
מה העיניינים!!!!!!!!
איפו נעלמתה לנו??
לא נותנים לך מספיק חופש בצבע??

Angry_NulNuk

Postby Angry_NulNuk » 2004-08-22, 22:57

the official sound of the letter resh is nothing like Spanish ,
it supoust to be somewhat French coz Ben Yeuda ,
the person who started modern Hebrew desided to use
French accent for Hebrew ,
but is something between French and German ,hard to explane ,
it starts from the trhought like French ,but it has
a diferent sound ,the R at self is more soft ,
but any way ,accents here are not as in Europa with
a local mayority ,Israel is an emigrants country ,
so even though the accent is quite the same ,it is not
exactly the same in every house ,and it depends very
much on the country the ansestors came from .

So now, my main problem seems to be keeping ר,‎ כ,‎ ח and ה apart


what do you mean????????
Chet and Chaf sound exactly the same (exept when Chaf
sounds like Kuf ),
but Hey and Resh sound nothing like them ,Resh is an R
sound ,it only starts like CHet or Chaf ,and Hey dont
sound at all like them ,not at all !
Hey ider have no sound at all (like Alef ) ,or it has
a kind of exhaling sound ,kind of like when you say "Hi" in English .


( ר= Resh ,ח =Chet ,כ = Chaf ,ה =Hey ,ק =Kuf )



Psi-Lord wrote:
I've got just one song in Hebrew in my PC: 'כשהלב בוכה', by שרית חדד. I have no idea what the title means, though —can I have a translation, please? Smile

After finding out that 'כאשר' may indeed be shortened to 'כש' (and attached to the following word), I gave it another try myself —does that mean 'When the Heart Cries'?

‏כש > כאשר = when‏
‏הלב = ה + לב = the heart‏
‏בוכה > בכה = to cry, weep


yes ,it means "when the hearth crys " ! :0}

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Resh again

Postby Psi-Lord » 2004-08-23, 5:25

Angry_NulNuk wrote:the official sound of the letter resh is nothing like Spanish ,
it supoust to be somewhat French [...], but is something between French and German ,hard to explane ,
it starts from the trhought like French ,but it has
a diferent sound ,the R at self is more soft ,

I guess I got that info from sites that discuss different pronunciations of Hebrew. For instance, in http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Hebrew_alphabet, they present the pronunciation of resh as follows:

Pronunciation

* IPA
o Modern Israeli: [ ʁ ]
o Ashkenazi: [ ʀ ]
o Sephardi: [ r~ɾ ]
o Yemenite: [ r~ɾ ]
o Tiberian: [ ɾ ]
o Reconstructed Mishnaic: [ ɾ ]
o Reconstructed Biblical: [ ɾ ]

So I guess I've just been adding too much of such info in my head and ended up with a few fuses blowing. :)

Angry_NulNuk wrote:but any way ,accents here are not as in Europa with
a local mayority ,Israel is an emigrants country ,
so even though the accent is quite the same ,it is not
exactly the same in every house ,and it depends very
much on the country the ansestors came from .

Well, something that made me feel rather 'comfortable' about Hebrew was my having once read that people in Israel, being so used to imigration and all that, are usually very tolerant when it comes to foreigners' pronunciation. :D Here's hoping that's really true. ;)

Angry_NulNuk wrote:what do you mean????????

Hei is the 'easy' one among them, but when it comes to throat sounds, I'm just hopeless —when I first ran into some Arabic pronunciation lessons, I realised I was totally terrible at those. :( So, if I'm training and concentrating, I can try and manage some sort of sounds that resemble the correct ones; however, when I'm to think of words and full sentences, and pronounce them in natural speed, it's like I narrow everything down to some sort of [x]... I guess I should just take some time to record a few sound files and upload them, so you guys can check it and give me some tips on how to improve those. ;)

By the way, since we're talking about it, another quote from that same website:

In Israel's general population, many consonants have merged to the same pronunciation. They are:

* א ’āleph with ע ‘áyin and (varyingly) ה hê
* ב bhêth (without dāghēš) with ו wāw
* ח ħêth with כ khāph (without dāghēš)
* ט ţêth with ת tāw (both with and without dāghēš)
* כ kāph (with dāghēš) with ק qôph
* ס sāmekh with ש śîn (but not with ש šîn)
* צ şādhê with consonant clusters טס ţêth-sāmekh, טש ţêth-śîn, תס tāw-sāmekh and תש tāw-śîn

I guess I myself follow that pretty closely in the way I've absorbed the pronunciation this far, but is it common to find people that do distinguish all those letter pairs?*

*I'd guess people with Arabic background do, though, since Arabic holds that huge amount of letters that end up sounding the same to most European-biased foreigners. ;)
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מה הענייני

Postby Lynch » 2004-08-23, 16:58

מה המצב נולנוק?
לא מסתדר הפורום והצבא - אבל לאנורא משתחררים עוד שנה ושלושה חודשים.

מתן, האלן, לשאלת השאלות - אתה אומר שאתה סטונדט, מה אתה לומד? לינגוויסטיקה? איפה?
אתה מתחיל הכי מהר שלך, ולאט-לאט אתה מגביר


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