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Discussion Group - Page 160 - UniLang

Discussion Group

Moderators: JackFrost, Marah

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Shibumi
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Shibumi » 2013-10-13, 15:47

JackFrost wrote:It's usually to mark the h aspiré, which prevents elision and liaison.

En parlant de cela...

Je venais de me perdre dans Wikipedia en suivant l'odeur de "-t-". Je decouvrais qu'il s'appelle un "phonème éphelcystique". (An ephelcystic phoneme, it says, is one of the methods of resolving the Hiatus caused by the two vowels facing each other. In terms of Liaison, the "t" bridges the two vowels just like pronouncing the otherwise-unpronounced end of les in les‿amis. However, it being an ephelcystic phoneme just means that its appearance is for etymological reasons. In this case, I think I remember reading that it was because the evolution from Vulgar Latin (plus a dash of Germanic) to Modern French both changed spellings and gained a preference for not pronouncing final sounds. Fascinating.) (J'aussi venais d'apprendre "venir + de + infinitif". Ha.)

Après ça, je continuais à lire les pages au sujet de la Langue Français et en Anglais et en Français. J'arrivais finalement à le page au sujet de l'h aspiré.

I was looking down the list of words starting with an aspirated H and noticed haie there. I remembered that word from a reading we did in my high school French class more than 10 years ago. The line was, Caché derrière la haie [...]. (Turns out it's from Le Loup by Marcel Aymé.)

And now, after all that, all of a sudden I can hear it being read as I couldn't before. And now, I don't have a question to ask anymore. Zut.

Well, on the way here, I learned about:
  • venir + de + l'infinitif
  • The diaeresis (le tréma) individuates vowel sounds. (haie vs. haïe)
  • When the passé composé is formed with avoir, but the direct object precedes the verb, the participe passé has to agree with the direct object. (Je l'ai haïe. "I hated her/it(f)." vs. Je l'ai haï. "I hated him/it(m)."
  • Forming the liaison from words ending in -_n, where _ is a nasalized vowel, in all but a few cases, is apparently supposed to cause the vowel to be denasalized. That's quite a detail.
  • de is used on the infinitive in an impersonal expression with a dummy subject, but à is used for a real subject.

Now that I write that last bullet point, though, "Je continuais à lire les pages [...]" isn't an impersonal expression at all, so I'm not sure what's right, there. à lire? de lire? en lisant? Hooray, a question.

Also, please tell me if any or all of the compositional guesses I made were wrong WRT my French. Thanks.

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Re: Discussion Group

Postby JackFrost » 2013-10-13, 17:01

Moi avec mon chat on a vraiment un bon feeling

It surprised me a bit hearing that from a French when all the long, I thought it would be exclusively a Quebecois thing to say. o.o

The diaeresis (le tréma) individuates vowel sounds. (haie vs. haïe)

The other accent marks can do that too. Examples: Noémie [nɔemi], géographie [ʒeɔgʀafi], etc. Although watch out for a handful of exceptions like poêle [pwal ~ pwɛ(:)l]. :p

When the passé composé is formed with avoir, but the direct object precedes the verb, the participe passé has to agree with the direct object. (Je l'ai haïe. "I hated her/it(f)." vs. Je l'ai haï. "I hated him/it(m)."

Yep, called the "accord du participe passé". Here you go if you want some more Wiki articles to distract yourself with. :P

de is used on the infinitive in an impersonal expression with a dummy subject, but à is used for a real subject.

Now that I write that last bullet point, though, "Je continuais à lire les pages [...]" isn't an impersonal expression at all, so I'm not sure what's right, there. à lire? de lire? en lisant? Hooray, a question.

Not always. For example, it's really common to use ce/ça as dummy subject as well, so you'd hear both "c'est impossible de" and "il est impossible de" having the same meaning. The former is more general, everyday French whereas the latter is more formal used in the media register and above.

And it's "continuer à" indeed. Usually, it's "de" that links the verb with the rest of the sentence, but some verbs have a fixed preposition attached to them and "à" would be another common one. For example, "continuer à", "obliger qqn à faire qqch", "commencer à", etc. and "se souvenir de", "se demander de", "forcer qqn de faire qqch", "continuer de", etc. Then we have other prepositions being used like "finir par" and "demander sur". And so on.

So, we have both "continuer de" and "continuer à" with the same meaning, so it's up to decide which to use. Personally, I see "à" being used the most often. I wouldn't worry too much about this case. :P
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Marah
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Marah » 2013-10-13, 17:07

It surprised me a bit hearing that from a French when all the long, I thought it would be exclusively a Quebecois thing to say. o.o

It's quite a common word here actually. :P
Par exemple, l'enfant croit au Père Noël. L'adulte non. L'adulte ne croit pas au Père Noël. Il vote.

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JackFrost
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby JackFrost » 2013-10-13, 17:46

Blâme-moi pas, Marah. J'vis carrément dans une bulle au coeur de l'Amérique anglo-saxonne.

Au moins qu'on a un accès à un océan.
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Marah
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Marah » 2013-10-13, 17:50

Bah ouai, c'est pas évident de discerner l'usage de mots anglais pour faire "in" de l'usage réellement naturel. Surtout quand on vit au Québec. :P
Par exemple, l'enfant croit au Père Noël. L'adulte non. L'adulte ne croit pas au Père Noël. Il vote.

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JackFrost
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby JackFrost » 2013-10-13, 18:48

Est-ce que c'est peut-être à cause des memes "feels"?

Si oui, ben nous, on dit ça depuis un bon bout... Avant l'ère de l'Internet. :P
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Marah
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Marah » 2013-10-13, 18:58

Je pense que ça s'est répandu avant les memes "feels". On dit souvent aussi "Bon, j'y vais au feeling" "en improvisation".
Par exemple, l'enfant croit au Père Noël. L'adulte non. L'adulte ne croit pas au Père Noël. Il vote.

modus.irrealis
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby modus.irrealis » 2013-10-16, 7:42

Comment dit-on "Y a-t-il quelqu'un qui ne les aime pas" plus informellement? "Est-ce qu'il y a quelqu'un qui..."? Est-ce qu'il y a d'autres options?

Et utilise-on normalement (quand on parle informellement) le subjonctif après le "qui" dans de telles phrases?

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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Emandir » 2013-10-16, 9:08

modus.irrealis wrote:Comment dit-on "Y a-t-il quelqu'un qui ne les aime pas" plus informellement? "Est-ce qu'il y a quelqu'un qui..."? Est-ce qu'il y a d'autres options?
"Y a quelqu'un qui..." mais c'est plus qu'informel, c'est très familier.

Et utilise-on normalement (quand on parle informellement) le subjonctif après le "qui" dans de telles phrases?
Non. Même formellement, aujourd'hui, on dira "Y a-t-il quelqu'un qui ne les chérit pas."
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Dormouse559
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Dormouse559 » 2013-10-18, 1:16

Marah wrote:"Moi avec mon chat on a vraiment un bon feeling, à aucun moment je regrette de l'avoir adopté. FAUX!
J'ai acheté une laisse pour les chats mais je comprends pas pourquoi ça existe ce genre de truc vu qu'il refuse absolument de se faire promener."
Oh ! Je n'aurais jamais deviné "feeling". Merci. :)
N'hésite pas à corriger mes erreurs.

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Re: Discussion Group

Postby vijayjohn » 2013-10-31, 5:01

Je ne sais pas si vous vous en souvenez, mais Luis avait nominé une chanson portugaise qui s'appelle «Bom Feeling» pour le Concours des Chansons du Forum en avril. Il me paraît que cette expression se trouve aussi dans d'autres langues européennes («gutes Feeling» en allemand, «buen feeling» en espagnol).

Alors, «feeling», c'est peut-être un mot voyageur (c'est-à-dire, ce qui s'appelle un wanderwort en anglais et en allemand) ?

Fripon
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Fripon » 2013-11-06, 11:09

Bonjour,

Je suis Français moi aussi. Ma femme est Brésilienne, donc je parle le portugais du Brésil.
Se você quiser aprender francês, tô aqui ! ;)

J'ai appris l'anglais à l'école, j'ai fait un stage en Angleterre, et je vis à Paris où je communique avec les touristes, donc je me débrouille. I went out with girls from US, Australia, so I think I can cope. If you feel like learning french with me I could help you.

Et enfin, j'ai fait aussi beaucoup d'espagnol, même pendant les études secondaires, une de mes ex était Mexicaine. Entonces, si quieres hablar francès conmigo, estoy preparado !

Right now, I feel like
1/ not loosing my Spanish
2/ learning Italian,
3/ learning German
later it will be 4/learning Russian 5/ Arabic 6/ Chinese and Japanese

I'm happy to discover such a forum

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Kenny
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Kenny » 2013-11-10, 18:50

Salut Fripon,

Là, c'est le sous-forum français, donc celui où est regroupé tout ce qui est français.
Pour les autres langues, tu n'as qu'à visiter les sous-forums correspondants.

Fripon
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Fripon » 2013-11-12, 13:28

ok merci Kenny
je voulais juste dire que je pouvais aider à parler/écrire français à d'autres
car j'ai un niveau correct dans ma langue natale :)

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Marah
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Marah » 2013-11-27, 18:17

Par exemple, l'enfant croit au Père Noël. L'adulte non. L'adulte ne croit pas au Père Noël. Il vote.

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Kenny
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Kenny » 2013-11-28, 17:44

Et si je les embrouillais un peu avec "Baja" comme ville d'origine ? :P

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JackFrost
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby JackFrost » 2013-11-30, 17:35

On ne reconnaît pas non plus ma ville d'origine, ni ma ville adoptée. Si, si francocentrique. :roll: :P

MAIS COUDONC LES GENS, ÇA C'T'UNE CHOCOLATINE.

Pour une fois, Marah, on parle comme vous autres, les gens de la Midi. :P
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Marah
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby Marah » 2013-11-30, 18:12

Euh non, dans les Pyrénées-Orientales on dit un pain au chocolat, ça va pas ou quoi? :P
Par exemple, l'enfant croit au Père Noël. L'adulte non. L'adulte ne croit pas au Père Noël. Il vote.

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Re: Discussion Group

Postby JackFrost » 2013-11-30, 18:18

Ben, si on me demande un pain au chocolat, je lui donnerai ça :

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:P

ça va pas ou quoi? :P

Nan, pour vrai, je m'en fous. 8-)
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adventrue
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Re: Discussion Group

Postby adventrue » 2013-12-04, 12:43

Pas de problème je mange tout.


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