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French and Welsh, the similarities - Page 2 - UniLang

French and Welsh, the similarities

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linguoboy
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Re: French and Welsh, the similarities

Postby linguoboy » 2014-08-01, 21:03

Ah, I thought you might be talking about haplogroups. You can find a nice chart of samplling percentages for various European populations here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R1b#R1b1a2_.28R-M269.29. Note that the Welsh, the Basque, and the Irish all cluster together at the top. But note also how high the percentages are for much of Western Europe in general, even places with no documented history of Celtic or Vasconic colonisation (e.g. Eastern Andalucia). So it's suggestive, but it's not the last word.

GothicSp wrote:Theory: 1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

Dictionary.com is a decent dictionary, not a great one, and certainly not my first choice of where to look when it comes to definitions of technical jargon.

GothicSp wrote:The second part says, 'especially', not that it's required. So according to you these are not theories? You have an interesting way of thinking.

The context is a scientific one (i.e. historical linguistics). Thus, it should be assumed that we're using the scientific definition of "theory"--you know, the one according to which gravitation is a "theory" and the Solar Nebular Model is simply a "hypothesis".

GothicSp wrote:I never said that the theories are definitely true, I just said that there are theories about it. I know too that the theories are mostly based on certain word-similarities in subjects like stones between Basque and an old form of a Caucasus language and that certain grammatical features also only occur in Basque and certain Caucasus languages, but it's too little to make big claims.

There are hypotheses linking to Basque to literally every known language group on Earth. (If you don't believe me, read Trask's The history of Basque sometime. Or just Google "Basque related to" and prepared to spend several hours wading through pseudolinguistic wingbattery.) So what?

GothicSp wrote:I didn't know this. Thanks for the information, but you could have said it in a more friendly manner.

Perhaps. But you definitely could've researched whether or not Celts once lived where the Resian dialect is spoken before asserting that they did.

It's fun to come up with hypotheses. But if you're not working as hard or harder to find evidence which disproves them as to find evidence which supports them, then you've left the realm of scientific inquiry and now you're just amusing yourself. Nothing wrong with that, but it's probably not of general interest to others.
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

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Re: French and Welsh, the similarities

Postby GothicSp » 2014-08-01, 21:51

linguoboy wrote:Ah, I thought you might be talking about haplogroups. You can find a nice chart of samplling percentages for various European populations here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R1b#R1b1a2_.28R-M269.29. Note that the Welsh, the Basque, and the Irish all cluster together at the top. But note also how high the percentages are for much of Western Europe in general, even places with no documented history of Celtic or Vasconic colonisation (e.g. Eastern Andalucia). So it's suggestive, but it's not the last word.

GothicSp wrote:Theory: 1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

Dictionary.com is a decent dictionary, not a great one, and certainly not my first choice of where to look when it comes to definitions of technical jargon.

GothicSp wrote:The second part says, 'especially', not that it's required. So according to you these are not theories? You have an interesting way of thinking.

The context is a scientific one (i.e. historical linguistics). Thus, it should be assumed that we're using the scientific definition of "theory"--you know, the one according to which gravitation is a "theory" and the Solar Nebular Model is simply a "hypothesis".

GothicSp wrote:I never said that the theories are definitely true, I just said that there are theories about it. I know too that the theories are mostly based on certain word-similarities in subjects like stones between Basque and an old form of a Caucasus language and that certain grammatical features also only occur in Basque and certain Caucasus languages, but it's too little to make big claims.

There are hypotheses linking to Basque to literally every known language group on Earth. (If you don't believe me, read Trask's The history of Basque sometime. Or just Google "Basque related to" and prepared to spend several hours wading through pseudolinguistic wingbattery.) So what?

GothicSp wrote:I didn't know this. Thanks for the information, but you could have said it in a more friendly manner.

Perhaps. But you definitely could've researched whether or not Celts once lived where the Resian dialect is spoken before asserting that they did.

It's fun to come up with hypotheses. But if you're not working as hard or harder to find evidence which disproves them as to find evidence which supports them, then you've left the realm of scientific inquiry and now you're just amusing yourself. Nothing wrong with that, but it's probably not of general interest to others.


Yes, I know about most theories. The most funny one is the Atlantis theory :D

I 'm an amateur-linguist and of course I make a lot of mistakes as I don't study it full-time, so if you can help me in getting more knowledge I can only appreciate that.

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Saim
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Re: French and Welsh, the similarities

Postby Saim » 2014-09-12, 8:34

linguoboy wrote:From the relevant Wikipedia article:
voyelles nasales parfois remplacées par le complexe voyelle + [ŋ ], ce qui donne par exemple pour le mot pain [pɛŋ ] au lieu de [pæ̃ ] en français standard


Akɔs parla an atseŋ utsitaŋ. :D

Aquò's parlar amb accent occitan.
ماں بولی = قومی بولی

پنجابی بولو، پنجابی پڑھو، پنجابی لکھو

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Marah
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Re: French and Welsh, the similarities

Postby Marah » 2014-09-12, 16:56

Il y a des gens qui ont cet accent au Roussillon aussi, et pourtant on y parle pas Occitan. :P
Par exemple, l'enfant croit au Père Noël. L'adulte non. L'adulte ne croit pas au Père Noël. Il vote.

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Saim
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Re: French and Welsh, the similarities

Postby Saim » 2014-09-17, 17:52

Òc, mas supausi qu'aquò representa influéncia occitana, doncas que tant l'Occitània Granda coma la Catalonha Nòrd son parçans del Midi francés (çò es, lo miègjorn de l'Estat francés). Existísson pas de "ns" finalas en catalan, que me fa supausar qu'aqueste trach ven d'influéncia lengadociana.

Oui, mais je suppose que ce represente influence occitane, car tant l'Occitanie grande comment la Catalogne Nord sont parties du Midi français. Existent pas de "n"s finales en catalan, que me fait supposer que cette trait vien d'influence languedocienne.
ماں بولی = قومی بولی

پنجابی بولو، پنجابی پڑھو، پنجابی لکھو

vijayjohn
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Re: French and Welsh, the similarities

Postby vijayjohn » 2015-02-02, 8:29

J'essaie de faire des corrections, si ça ne dérange personne. Si j'ai fait des erreurs, disputez-les, s'il vous plaît. :)
Saim wrote:Oui, mais je suppose que ce ça repreésente l'influence occitane, car tant l'Occitanie grande la Grande Occitanie comment la Catalogne Nord sont parties font partie du Midi français. Existent pas de "n"s finales Il n'existe pas de "n" finale en catalan, que ce qui me fait supposer que cette trait vient de l'influence languedocienne.


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