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Can anyone let me know your opinion for Bible - UniLang

Can anyone let me know your opinion for Bible

A place for everyone to have discussions about literature, classical and contemporary.

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michaelcorleone
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Can anyone let me know your opinion for Bible

Postby michaelcorleone » 2008-06-02, 8:06

As a Chiese to read bible(no matter Eng or Chinese)sometimes it may be harder to understand the logic or value hidden on the discription. Here i would be delight to be advised the opinions of all freiends here about Bible, the description, and the diffent version.

I also have a dream to collect bible wroten by different lanaguages, but it is a long way to go....i have collected Chinese simplified, Chinese traditional, NKJV, NSAE and French.

Glad to meet all you guys here!

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Postby Jalethon » 2008-06-02, 11:24

[la] Hic Linguae Latinae discipulus te salutat! Biblia mea quoque refert, principaliter Biblia Latine. Ego sum coque Christianus, ita mores Biblia mihi notus sunt.


This disciple of Latin greets you! The bible also interests me, mainly the Latin bible. I am also a Christian, so the character of the Bible is known to me.
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Postby Trapy » 2008-06-02, 17:56

*note, these are just opinions from me! I don't mean to offend anyone...

Some people take it literally, word for word. If it is in the bible, it happened. If it is not in the bible, it never happened / it is not true.

Some people in the west don't bother with it, call themselves Christians, but only go to church on Easter and Christmas.

Most people fall somewhere between those 2. A lot of western culture is based on christian values (read the 10 commandments, but those are very generic). Also, a lot of taboos like homosexuality, have undertones in the bible.

I would say the majority of Christians have not read the entire bible (or, at least the ones I know). Maybe just the more popular parts, like Genesis and Revelations.

My biggest problem is, it's very contradictory. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth in the old testament, (you should get equal Revenge) against the New testament's Turn the other cheek (do not get revenge), clash heavily. Depending on what situation you are in, you can almost always find a verse that supports you (but probably vaguely).
"and now every toilet will burn to ashes!""

michaelcorleone
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Appreciation!

Postby michaelcorleone » 2008-06-03, 7:27

Really apprecciate the the friends above.
I am just a beginner for bible reading and really curious the Christian education in westen world. I was told the Bible was written by a simple and easy-to-understand style at the begining Hebrew and Latin. But it can not be found in Chinese ediition. I found the language is beautiful in KJV and NKJV.

I am also intensively to know the Vulgate or Latin in Bible, who can know how to pronunce Latin correctly?

I am so happy here!

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Postby Śrāmaṇera » 2008-06-03, 12:49

As for the pronunciation of Latin, it depends on the country you are from, I think. The way French students learn how to pronounce it sounds totally different from the English habits.

I don´t remember who was writing a bit earlier that you don´t have to consider everything as universal knowledge or truth in the Bible. That´s obvious, but it was off topic here. I think our friend from China mentioned the Bible here as an object to study, a poetry book, a mythology book, whatever. The Bible is a masterpiece and a monument. So is the Coran or any other "religious" book of origins...

It doesn´t really matter whether everything, something or even nothing is actually true.
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Postby Karavinka » 2008-06-04, 18:36

The Bible can be read in different ways, depending on your interest. You say you're just a beginner, and it's important to get to appreciate the text first, whether you're Christian or not. And there is no reason to believe anything from the text unless you happen to be a Christian, so my idea of appreciating the Bible comes from the understanding of the text itself.

Note that the Bible is not a book. It's a portable library made of many books. This means there is no imperative forcing you to read from Genesis to Revelation in sequence. This is my suggestion on where to start reading this library, as a non-Christian.

I know there will be tons of people who insist on the beauty of KJV, but still I would recommend TNIV (Today's New International Version). A non-native speaker of English just beginning to read Bible should not be bogged down by the archaic language.

For OT:

The Pentateuch (Genesis to Deuteronomy) can be quite perplexing, and you probably want to get a study bible with the commentaries to help you through. This is particularly so if you do not have any Christian background. They're difficult, but it pays the effort, and some understanding of these first five books is more or less required for the rest of OT.

You can safely ignore the Histories (Josue to Machabees) at the beginning of your studies. It reads like a Hebrew epic without poetic qualities, and although a good chunk of Biblical stories stem from here, they're not very essential to the first-timers.

The Wisdom Books (Job to Sirach/Ecclesiasticus) are important to understand what they thought. Esp. Job and Ecclesiastes/Qohelet.

For the Prophets (Isaiah onwards), Isaiah is probably the most important one.

For NT:

For reading about Jesus, start with Mark. Don't let the boring list of genealogy at the beginning of Matthew discourage you. Mark is the first gospel, and Matthew and Luke borrow heavily from it. The natural process is to continue with Matthew and Luke. These three are the founding stones of NT.

John is a weird piece of work. To me, this book appears to be more Neoplatonist than Judaic. That is, this will continue to be perplexing unless you have some understanding of Greek philosophical tradition as well. Browse through, don't get discouraged if it makes little to no sense.

Acts can be read as a sequel to the Synoptic Gospels (Mark, Matthew and Luke). It depicts the early Christian communities, but it's not a terribly important document in terms of its religious contents.

The most important Pauline Epistle is probably Romans. A careful study of Romans can give you a lot of insight on the Christian belief system. Historically speaking, Christian church was found not on the Gospels but on the letters.

Revelation is an interesting book, almost a fantasy fiction. Not terribly important in terms of doctrine, though.


Hopefully that helps, and should there be any Christian complaints, smack it back.
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Postby Jalethon » 2008-06-04, 23:05

[la] Stupefacior Bibliae scientia tua, esne discipulus/discipula theologiae? Unde hanc scientiam trahis?

Mihi videtur libri Actae Apostolorum, Ecclesiastis, Proverbiorum et Cantici Canticorum tibi gravissimi sunt.


I am stunned by your biblical knowledge, are you a student of theology? From where do you draw this knowledge?

I believe the books of the Apostolic Acts, Ecclesiastes, Proverbs and the Song of Songs are the most important for you.
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Postby Steisi » 2008-06-05, 9:14

Noir: I've been thinking of getting acquainted with the good old bibble for a while now and your post was just immensely helpful. Ta very much <3

I was in a literature class and the teacher went crazy because we didn't recognise an analogy to John the Baptist's head. Now I know that if someone bangs on about a lamb, it's usually Jesus. And forbidden fruit.. well we all know where that came from. But John the Baptist's head? Come on...
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Postby fireyez » 2008-06-05, 13:23

Stacy wrote:But John the Baptist's head? Come on...

“Salome” by Oscar Wilde is an obligatory read in Russian schools. Don’t students have to read it in the UK schools too? Or did you cut your literature classes? :mrgreen:
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I'm struggling with Bible in Old Church-Slavonic. :D I've learned grammar and I'm enjoying every bit of it - all those complicated tenses, absolute participial constructions, dual number etc, etc, etc. Compared to Church-Slavonic, Russian seems kind of bleak. However, I have problems with vocabulary sometimes - false friends, you know. Most of the words in Church-Slavonic sound extreamly poetic, but there are some words that sound just rude. Like verb "pronounce" in Church Slavonic sounds like Modern Russian "barf". Or "The Egiptian King said to Jewish midwives" sounds like "The Egiptian King said to Jewish bimbos" etc. :lol:
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Anyone read the Book of Enoch? Yeah I know it's not a canonical book and there's been a lot of specutation whether it's forgery or not. But still I really liked it, especially the part about Gregorians. Hell, maybe indeed those giants mentioned in Genesis were dinosaurs. :ohwell: Anyway, for all I know the Book of Enoch is canonical in Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and it's also quoted in New Testament, but then again maybe it was indeed written after the New Testament had been compiled.

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Postby Steisi » 2008-06-05, 14:08

fireyez wrote:
Stacy wrote:But John the Baptist's head? Come on...

“Salome” by Oscar Wilde is an obligatory read in Russian schools. Don’t students have to read it in the UK schools too? Or did you cut your literature classes? :mrgreen:


No, I haven't read it :nope: And I can't remember what the thing about John the Baptist's head was in either, I just remember being shouted at because of it (this was in uni btw ;))

In secondary school we had to read Shakespeare and random poetry from Seamus Heaney to poets from other cultures. At A level I chose to read Nineteen Eighty-Four by George Orwell. :yep:
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Postby Karavinka » 2008-06-05, 14:40

Jalethon wrote:I am stunned by your biblical knowledge, are you a student of theology? From where do you draw this knowledge?

I believe the books of the Apostolic Acts, Ecclesiastes, Proverbs and the Song of Songs are the most important for you.


No. I happen to own a copy of the Bible. "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear." (Luke 16:29) I don't have a Christian family background.

Is it the ones that you think they would be important to me, or is it your guess that I think they're important to me? My personal favourites are Genesis, Ecclesiastes, Isaiah, Judith, and John.

Stacy wrote:But John the Baptist's head? Come on...


Better than the Hones of Moses... Lost in translation, some people believed Moses had hones. Honed Moses appear quite frequently in Renaissance sculptures. :)
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Postby fireyez » 2008-06-05, 14:51

Stacy wrote:No, I haven't read it :nope: And I can't remember what the thing about John the Baptist's head was in either, I just remember being shouted at because of it (this was in uni btw ;))

That's unfair. Why did we have to read it then if even the English don't read it. :evil:

noir wrote:Better than the Hones of Moses


Maybe you meant "horns of Moses"? :)

Yeah i've seen some pictures where he had horns.

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Postby Karavinka » 2008-06-05, 15:11

fireyez wrote:
Stacy wrote:No, I haven't read it :nope: And I can't remember what the thing about John the Baptist's head was in either, I just remember being shouted at because of it (this was in uni btw ;))

That's unfair. Why did we have to read it then if even the English don't read it. :evil:

noir wrote:Better than the Hones of Moses


Maybe you meant "horns of Moses"? :)

Yeah i've seen some pictures where he had horns.


oops, yeah. (blaming the morning)
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Postby Steisi » 2008-06-05, 15:51

fireyez wrote:
Stacy wrote:No, I haven't read it :nope: And I can't remember what the thing about John the Baptist's head was in either, I just remember being shouted at because of it (this was in uni btw ;))

That's unfair. Why did we have to read it then if even the English don't read it. :evil:


MUUUUUAAAAHAHAAA :evilgrin:

Well, maybe some other schools had to read it for A level or GCSE. The national curriculum has loads of options. Like we could have read Harry Potter for AS level but we read The Scarlet letter and The Color Purple instead because, as my teacher said "It'd be a shame if you end up hating Harry Potter" ;) Some other people then, read Harry Potter and there were more options too..

Not that I enjoyed reading the Taming of the Shrew :pissed: Midsummer night's dream was good, so was Hamlet.
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Postby fireyez » 2008-06-05, 15:56

I found the pic :D

Image

I guess another example of wrong translation would be "A camel passing through the eye of a needle". They say translators made a boo boo. The greek word actually meant a thick rope, not a camel. However some people claim that back then there was a tiny gate in Jerusalem which was called "The Needle Eye", it was too small for camels to pass through.

Also in Church Slavonic Bible David has red hair, in Modern Russian Translation he's blond :roll:

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Postby fireyez » 2008-06-05, 16:17

@Stacy
The national curriculum has loads of options.

We don't have any options at all. :evil: Just have to read what they tell you.

Here's what we read at secondary school

Chaucer "Canterberry Tales" (all i remember is that there was a tale about a rooster with a funny name Shantaclair or something, sorry for spelling - we read everything in Russian of course so I don't even know how the writer's surnames are spelled right.

John Milton "Paradise Lost".

Byron. Damn it, I hated him so much. Don't know how it's called in Enlgish - that piece where he traveled a lot. We had to learn a 2 pages from it by heart :evil: :evil: :evil:

Lake Poets. In Russian we called them Shameful Poets :D

Oscar Wilde, Portrait of Dorian Gray and Salome

Well and some others... Oh and Shakespear of course. Evrybody hated him too, because we again had to learn
two sonnets and "To be or not to be" monologue by heart :evil:

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Postby Steisi » 2008-06-05, 16:35

fireyez wrote:@Stacy

Chaucer "Canterbury Tales" (all i remember is that there was a tale about a rooster with a funny name Chanticleer or something, sorry for spelling - we read everything in Russian of course so I don't even know how the writer's surnames are spelled right.


Just for info :yep:

John Milton "Paradise Lost".

Byron. Damn it, I hated him so much. Don't know how it's called in Enlgish - that piece where he traveled a lot. We had to learn a 2 pages from it by heart :evil: :evil: :evil:


We read those in Uni and I hated them too. I can't see the point of learning those sonnets off by heart - how does it help you? We had to analyse them, some were about love, some were about the sun and how if you cover your eyes you've somehow beaten it because you can't see it. Load of old bollocks if you ask me. But then again, I don't like literature analysis and I've been forced to way too many classes :D I like to read and enjoy with some basic background info but when it comes to counting metre and stuff.. :blah:
Native: English
Fluent: Finnish
Want to resuscitate: German
Actively learning: Hebrew
Wishes she had time for: Northern Sámi
En usko humalaan.

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fireyez
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Postby fireyez » 2008-06-05, 17:11

Stacy wrote:Just for info :yep:


Thank you :)

Stacy wrote: We had to analyse them, some were about love, some were about the sun and how if you cover your eyes you've somehow beaten it because you can't see it. Load of old bollocks if you ask me.

I'd clean forgotten about sun and nature in his sonnets. But I do remember there was something about the girl he loved, and she was black, or maybe way too tanned :mrgreen:

Erm... Looks like I'm trolling this thread and making you answer my questions to boot. :para:

Guess we'd better get back to the topic :D

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Postby Karavinka » 2008-06-05, 18:00

I wonder why they teach so much English literature in Russia. :/ You should be reading Pushkin :D The Bronze Equestrian is an amazing piece of work.
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Postby Jalethon » 2008-06-05, 22:45

Is it the ones that you think they would be important to me, or is it your guess that I think they're important to me? My personal favourites are Genesis, Ecclesiastes, Isaiah, Judith, and John.


[la] Haec propositio pro scriptore huius licii exhibui. Non oportet mihi disponere audere tibi libros Bibliae.

I made this proposal for the writer of this thread. It would not befit me to dare venture into assigning you books of the Bible.
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Ex eis omnes, corrigite me, si potestis!
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