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Preferred English translation of Dante? - UniLang

Preferred English translation of Dante?

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MyOpinion

Preferred English translation of Dante?

Postby MyOpinion » 2004-12-29, 0:41

I've only read the Robert Pinsky translation, which mangles the original at least to the extent of requiring English rhyme. Whether or not you are fluent in Italian dialects, please suggest to me a most literal and inspired (matched in spirit) English translation of Dante's original work.

Unsurprisingly, all the English translations I've seen in bookstores shamelessly claim to provide the first-ever truly honest capture of Dante's words and spirit, so I'd rather trust some comment from readers not trying to sell product.

Thanks.

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Re: Preferred English translation of Dante?

Postby leppie » 2004-12-29, 8:51

MyOpinion wrote:I've only read the Robert Pinsky translation, which mangles the original at least to the extent of requiring English rhyme. Whether or not you are fluent in Italian dialects, please suggest to me a most literal and inspired (matched in spirit) English translation of Dante's original work.

Unsurprisingly, all the English translations I've seen in bookstores shamelessly claim to provide the first-ever truly honest capture of Dante's words and spirit, so I'd rather trust some comment from readers not trying to sell product.

Thanks.

Dante is hard to understand ever for italian people, mostly because Dante used very complex allegories. Maybe you should take something which a lot of notes.
Se il drago rifiuta di combattere,
forse è solo pigro.
Ma se ignora la zanzara,
allora è davvero addormentato.

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Postby Patricia » 2004-12-29, 20:32

Henry Wadsworth Longellow's? Never read it, but I've read 'The Dante Club'. :wink:

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Postby ReadHarvest » 2005-01-08, 10:10

I have a friend who was born and raised in Rome (his father was a US foreign service officer) and is perfectly fluent in Italian, French, and English. He once told me that the best way to choose a English translation of Dante for yourself is to make yourself an expert on the first page of Canto 1, then browse bookstores for an English edition that you think comes closest to getting it right and with style.

The range of translation quality you'll find just from comparing the first pages is striking. Like you, I am skeptical of any translation that comes out with English rhyme imposed upon it.

MyOpinion

Re: Preferred English translation of Dante?

Postby MyOpinion » 2005-01-09, 9:16

MyOpinion wrote:Unsurprisingly, all the English translations I've seen in bookstores shamelessly claim to provide the first-ever truly honest capture of Dante's words and spirit...

This wouldn't apply to straightforward translations, but anytime I see a book liner note that calls itself the "first-ever" interpretation of one subject or another, I consider it a dead giveway that the book started as a doctoral dissertion.

Doctoral candidates are invariably supposed to claim an untapped viewpoint and pretend it will fill a gap in modern understanding. For example, a study of Dante theoretically could get as silly as "The Divine Comedy and the Psychology of Mountain Climbing," or a dissertation on Shakespeare's Histories might resort to "Prince Hal and the the Seeds of Jazz Music."

:P 8)

Guest

Re: Preferred English translation of Dante?

Postby Guest » 2005-01-14, 8:30

MyOpinion wrote:Whether or not you are fluent in Italian dialects, please suggest to me a most literal and inspired (matched in spirit) English translation of Dante's original work.

Take a look into "Dante Alighieri on the Web" at http://www.greatdante.net.

The "His Work" menu and the download area of the "Miscellaneous" menu both include links to online texts of Dante in the original Italian vernacular and in a few different languages. I cannot vouch for the translation quality, but the site is worth a gander.

Guest

Postby Guest » 2005-02-03, 21:47

ReadHarvest wrote:The range of translation quality you'll find just from comparing the first pages is striking.

INFERNO Line 1 in Dante original:
Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita

INFERNO Line 1 in different English translations:
In my middle of my lifetime
Midway in human life's allotted span,
Halfway through our trek in life
Midway the path of life that men pursue
Halfway along the path of this existence
In the middle of this mortal life
At midpoint of the journey of our life
Upon the journey of our life midway
When I had journeyed half of our life’s way
Midway in our life’s journey, I went astray
Halfway along the road we have to go
In the midst of my journey through this life of ours,

:?

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Postby parousia » 2005-02-05, 11:51

Hi MyOpinion,

I don't know Italian, but I've read John Ciardi's translation of The Divine Comedy and it reads quite nicely. Here are the first two opening tercets:

Midway in our life's journey, I went astray
from the straight road and woke to find myself
alone in a dark wood. How shall I say

what wood that was! I never saw so drear,
so rank, so arduous a wilderness!
Its very memory gives a shape to fear.


John Ciardi was a poet. Of course, the best thing to do would be to learn Italian. :) Barring that you could at least listen to it in the original for the music of the language. There used to be a website where you could listen to the whole work in Italian, but I believe it's now defunct.

Baftă!
parousia

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Postby ReadHarvest » 2007-09-26, 23:10

:) The New Yorker magazine dated September 3, 2007 (http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2007/09/03/070903crbo_books_acocella)contains a substantial essay about a new English translation in blank verse of Dante's Paradiso.

The new translation is by Robert and Jean Hollander. According to the New Yorker essay, the new version "sings" compared to other Dante translations.

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Postby Karavinka » 2007-11-17, 18:20

I would recommend the Mark Musa translation. It's a cheap penguin edition, very readable and it has a lot of helpful commentaries. I've read Longfellow version as well but I much prefer Musa one: you can't begin descending to the Hell without the commentaries to help you understand what he is talking about. Especially if you're reading it alone without a teacher.

I don't think reading Dante is particularly difficult, you just need a good edition with the commentaries and a Dante biography to read along. Knowing his biography is a very important key to understand the Comedy.

I don't really care about the musical quality of the translations, btw. You should understand the work so you can enjoy it.
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Postby Kyr » 2007-11-19, 14:57

I have Laurence Binyon translation in "terza rima" and Charles Singleton prose translation (with great commentaries).

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Dante in Chinese

Postby michaelcorleone » 2008-06-03, 8:47

I just only read a Chinese edition of Divine Comedy tanslated from English! It is horriable and no any beauty about language iteself except for knowing some story!

But I have no knowledge for the issue of Divien Comedy translated from Italian to English as I have hardly knowledge for Italian. If I can have a good English edition I should be so happy at all.

My question is, can any Italian pal advise your feeling for reading Italian Divine Comedy directly or if you think it is hard and why?

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Postby Zorba » 2008-06-03, 18:32

I'm not an expert by any means. A few years ago a friend bought me a copy of Ciaran Carson's translation of the Inferno, which had just been published (2002). Carson is a Northern Irish poet. It was very readable and quite contemporary, and in fairly loose verse. I remember that I understood more of it than I expected to. However, I suspect that it lost a lot of the gravitas and majesty of the original. Having said that, I seem to remember Carson saying that the original Dante was in fairly colloquial, dialectal Italian at the time it was written; he claimed he was trying to recapture this spirit.

I recently acquired a copy of Eliot Norton's translation from the beginning of the 20th Century. It's a prose translation. I haven't really looked at it yet though. I'd like to read Longfellow's too.

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Postby Karavinka » 2008-06-04, 17:54

@michaelcorleone

http://www.archive.org/details/divina_commedia_librivox

This is the recordings of La Divina Commedia in the original Italian. The musical quality of the language itself is beyond any translation.

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1000

And here's the Italian text to refer with.

It almost makes me want to learn Italian for the sake of this text alone. I found that Mark Musa translation I mentioned above to be fairly literal, and with a basic grasp with Italian grammar I can follow the original text, albeit some difficulties. (My reading knowledge of French certainly comes in aid as well.)

My only suggestion in regarding English translation is: stay away from prose translation. You need a verse translation to enjoy the rhetoric of the text. The following guide on Amazon should be helpful:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltgu ... rpsy_alt_1

Enjoy, and I hope you may find your way out of selva oscura. ;)
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Re: Preferred English translation of Dante?

Postby ducdebrabant » 2009-10-21, 17:04

The only translation I have found that's in actual terza rima is still the Dorothy Sayers translation posthumously completed (in the Paradiso) by Barbara Reynolds. I like it a lot, although I do seem to see a slight falloff in quality where Reynolds takes over. It may be that Sayers's (apparently unique) insistence on using Dante's meter and rhyme scheme have caused some problems with the meaning; I can't evaluate that. What I can say is real terza rima turns out to be a magic carpet -- it makes the poem flow in such a way that you fly through it. Most of the verse translators don't trouble themselves with rhyme at all -- only with meter. Pinsky makes an effort, but cheats. He uses the ABA rhyme scheme of the stanza, but he doesn't make the B of the first stanza the A of the second, and the B of the second the A of the third, etc. Sayers's properly rhymed stanzas really link up, and send you vaulting from stanza to stanza. I stand by my account of the reading experience, even though I'm sure some Italian readers and scholars here will now be glad to pick apart the Sayers translation on other grounds. Up to now it has been the standard Penguin translation, but they're replacing it, apparently, with an unrhymed one.

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Re: Preferred English translation of Dante?

Postby naruto123 » 2010-11-30, 22:13

This is it, Here I stand
I'm the light of the world
I'll feel grand
Got this love, I can feel
And I know, Yes for sure
It is real

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Re: Preferred English translation of Dante?

Postby Polyglot Database » 2011-05-18, 0:53

Anthony Esolen's translation is the one I used in college. I recommend it since it contains the original Italian on the left page with its English translation on the right. Esolen tried his best to retain the format of Dante's style, and he achieved this very well. Plus, there is an extensive appendix in each book of the Divine Comedy with explanations and related documents pertaining to the text.

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Re: Preferred English translation of Dante?

Postby Babooshkerin » 2011-11-26, 22:14

Dante's untranslatable. Really.
It is really hard to read it and understand it without any guidance even for an Italian native speaker.
Also, learning Italian for the sake of reading La Divina Commedia in its original language is just not the right solution. Spoken (as well as written) Italian nowadays is so different from that which was written at the time. And a perfect knowledge of Italian history in 1300 is required. And even then, you might miss some referrements. (Critics still hold debates about the meaning of some passages, so.)

My point is, it would take so much effort. If you have this really deep craving for Dante in the original, I would suggest to read more than just one translation of the Comedy and rely on the notes. And then, maybe, listen to a recording of it, not to miss the beauty of its metrics and rhymes.
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Re: Preferred English translation of Dante?

Postby johnleee » 2012-12-10, 7:37

I think that's just too open-ended a topic. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who's read hundreds of books and it's hard for me to single a few out without some kind of parameters. What kind of reading, serious or light? What length? What style? What other authors have you read that you've liked? Which ones would you never read again? All of that and more would inform my selection of titles to recommend to someone.

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Re: Preferred English translation of Dante?

Postby ling » 2012-12-11, 13:56

MyOpinion wrote:I've only read the Robert Pinsky translation, which mangles the original at least to the extent of requiring English rhyme. Whether or not you are fluent in Italian dialects, please suggest to me a most literal and inspired (matched in spirit) English translation of Dante's original work.

I would recommend Pinsky too, seeing that he's a friend of the family, so I've met him and I even played with his daughter when I was a little kid!
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