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IpseDixit - Português de Portugal - Page 4 - UniLang

IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Moderator: Luís

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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby Luís » 2014-12-21, 13:59

Yes and yes :)

When we speak we tend to replace the conditional with the imperfect (preferia instead of preferiria) and the simple future with the periphrastic form (vou comer instead of comerei)
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-21, 17:11

Thanks!

I'm reviewing the object pronouns and my book says that in EP if there is a direct object pronoun and an indirect object pronoun, they merge into one word, e.g:

-disse-lho muitas vezes
-dou-to

My book gives only these two examples, and now I wonder what other pronouns merge together, for example, does me+as = mas? Can you give me a complete list of all these mergers?

---

On a related note, is it only the verbs in the infinitive that lose the last letter when followed by o, a, os, as? Or all verbs that ends with R, S and Z?

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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby Luís » 2014-12-21, 17:45

1) me (mo, ma, mos, mas), te (to, ta, tos, tas), lhe (lho, lha, lhos, lhas)

2) All verb forms ending in -r-, -s or -z

faz + o = fá-lo
comemos + o = comemo-lo
abrir + o = abri-lo
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-26, 17:01

Outras perguntas:

8) A i pode ser pronunciada como [j]? Especialmente quando está antes outras vogais?

9) Sei o que quer dizer nem sequer, mais parece-me que a vezes eu tinha visto somente sequer ou somente nem em unas frases (e não me refiro à construção "nem... nem..."). É possivel ou estou confundido?

10) Como se pronuncia sce e sci?

11) Estive a ler um livro em português e encontrei esta frase: não demorará até que achem minha casa e ameacem minha mulher ― até que ameacem meu lho.

O que é que quer deizer lho aqui?

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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby osias » 2014-12-26, 19:36

Acho que faltou a sílaba "fi"
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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-26, 19:50

Faz sentido... não seria a pimeira palavra cortada do livro... :\ por sorte paguei-o somente 1,67 euros.

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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby osias » 2014-12-26, 20:52

Não consigo também lembrar de palavras em português que comecem com lh, a não ser lhama
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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby Youngfun » 2014-12-26, 21:04

Pode ser que seja abreviação de "filho"?

Em português europeu sce e sci se pronunciam /ʃs-/ no padrão, mas em Lisboa é reduzido em /ʃ-/.

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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-26, 22:14

Eu penso que, mais simplesmente, é um erro tipográfico, e há vários erros assim no livro. Provavelmente a edição é bastante sofrível, então acho que é melhor mudar livro, há O Alquimista que está a me esperar. :)

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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby osias » 2014-12-26, 23:49

IpseDixit wrote:9) Sei o que quer dizer nem sequer, mais parece-me que a vezes eu tinha visto somente sequer ou somente nem em unas frases (e não me refiro à construção "nem... nem..."). É possivel ou estou confundido?

Desculpe-me por eu não ser Português, mas meu palpite é que seja como no pt-br: é a mesma coisa, mas com mais ênfase, semelhante a usar "um outro" onde poderia ser usado "outro".
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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-27, 0:10

osias wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:9) Sei o que quer dizer nem sequer, mais parece-me que a vezes eu tinha visto somente sequer ou somente nem em unas frases (e não me refiro à construção "nem... nem..."). É possivel ou estou confundido?

Desculpe-me por eu não ser Português, mas meu palpite é que seja como no pt-br: é a mesma coisa, mas com mais ênfase, semelhante a usar "um outro" onde poderia ser usado "outro".


Bom, suponho que um brasileiro seja melhor que nada. :twisted: :P

Então, nem sequer é a forma enfática ao passo que nem e sequer são as formas normais e perfeitamente intercambiáveis?

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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby osias » 2014-12-27, 1:50

De cabeça não consigo pensar num contra exemplo.

Vou no google, aguarde um minutinho.¹


¹ - um minutinho tem exatamente o mesmo número de segundos que um minuto e um minutão, mas você já deve ter lido sobre os diminutivos hipócritas da língua portuguesa, né?

EDIT: google não me contradisse muito, mas vamos esperar alguém aparecer e dizer que em Portugal a mudança fonética blá blá blá blá e agora se pronuncia com uma africada avelar oclusal.
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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby Youngfun » 2014-12-27, 4:10

Oops, não tinha visto a postagem do osias que dizia que faltava "fi" :P

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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-27, 11:45

osias wrote:De cabeça não consigo pensar num contra exemplo.

Vou no google, aguarde um minutinho.¹


¹ - um minutinho tem exatamente o mesmo número de segundos que um minuto e um minutão, mas você já deve ter lido sobre os diminutivos hipócritas da língua portuguesa, né?

EDIT: google não me contradisse muito, mas vamos esperar alguém aparecer e dizer que em Portugal a mudança fonética blá blá blá blá e agora se pronuncia com uma africada avelar oclusal.


Emmm e a resposta à minha pergunta onde está?

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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby osias » 2014-12-27, 12:35

IpseDixit wrote:
Emmm e a resposta à minha pergunta onde está?


Havia um "sim" implícito:
osias wrote:Sim. De cabeça não consigo pensar num contra exemplo.
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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-27, 16:37

Não entendo esta frase:

Vão até o morro conhecer o castelo e acham que o passado era melhor que o presente.

Não tenho problemas com a parte depois a e, mas não estou com certeza do que é que significa a primeira parte.

---

Outra pergunta:

12) O que é que significam as construções fazer com que, tratar de e mesmo que?

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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby osias » 2014-12-28, 1:32

IpseDixit wrote:Não entendo esta frase:

Vão até o morro conhecer o castelo e acham que o passado era melhor que o presente.

Não tenho problemas com a parte depois da letra e, mas não estou com certeza do que é que significa a primeira parte.


They go to the hill/min-mountain/small-elevation to know the castle and...
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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-28, 1:35

osias wrote:
IpseDixit wrote:Não entendo esta frase:

Vão até o morro conhecer o castelo e acham que o passado era melhor que o presente.

Não tenho problemas com a parte depois da letra e, mas não estou com certeza do que é que significa a primeira parte.


They go to the hill/min-mountain/small-elevation to know the castle and...


Porque não é para conhecer?

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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby Luís » 2014-12-28, 13:27

IpseDixit wrote:Outras perguntas:

8) A i pode ser pronunciada como [j]? Especialmente quando está antes outras vogais?

9) Sei o que quer dizer nem sequer, mais parece-me que a vezes eu tinha visto somente sequer ou somente nem em unas frases (e não me refiro à construção "nem... nem..."). É possivel ou estou confundido?

10) Como se pronuncia sce e sci?

11) Estive a ler um livro em português e encontrei esta frase: não demorará até que achem minha casa e ameacem minha mulher ― até que ameacem meu lho.

O que é que quer deizer lho aqui?


8) Sim, claro. E depois também, por exemplo nos ditongos ai, ei, oi, ui...
E atenção que os nomes das letras em português são masculinos.

9) Sim, é possível usar só "nem" no sentido de "not even", ou em conjunção com "sequer", ou caso já haja outra partícula negativa na frase, apenas "sequer"

10) A resposta do Youngfun está perfeita

11) Provavelmente um erro tipográfico, como toda a gente já comentou...

IpseDixit wrote:Não entendo esta frase:

Vão até o morro conhecer o castelo e acham que o passado era melhor que o presente.

Não tenho problemas com a parte depois a e, mas não estou com certeza do que é que significa a primeira parte.

---

Outra pergunta:

12) O que é que significam as construções fazer com que, tratar de e mesmo que?



O que o osias disse. Não é necessariamente preciso nenhuma proposição... vou para casa comer, vou para a escola aprender, vou para o morro conhecer o castelo...

fazer com que = to make something/someone (some action)
tratar de = take care of
mesmo que = even though
Quot linguas calles, tot homines vales

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IpseDixit
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Re: IpseDixit - Português de Portugal

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-12-29, 9:01

Obrigado Luís!

O que o osias disse. Não é necessariamente preciso nenhuma proposição... vou para casa comer, vou para a escola aprender, vou para o morro conhecer o castelo...


Isso funciona somente com os verbos de movimento?


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