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Russian - IpseDixit - UniLang

Russian - IpseDixit

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IpseDixit
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Russian - IpseDixit

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-10-01, 10:59

Hello everybody. I'm going to start a Russian course in a week, but I have decided to study the Cyrillic alphabet before the course begins, so here's my first question:

I've noticed that the О can be pronounced either as o or a, are there any rules for that or will it have to be mere memorization?

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby voron » 2013-10-01, 11:10

This phenomenon is called "Vowel reduction" and in a simplified fashion it can be explained as follows:
1) о is pronounced as "а" in unstressed syllables
2) е is pronounced as "и" in unstressed syllables

This is a good first approximation but there are more details to it, you might want to read up on wikipedia or elsewhere:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel_reduction_in_Russian

The term 'reduction' comes from the fact that the Russian vowel inventory consisting of 5 sounds (а, о, у, и, е) is reduced to 3 sounds in unstressed syllables (а, у, и).

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-10-01, 11:21

voron wrote:This phenomenon is called "Vowel reduction" and in a simplified fashion it can be explained as follows:
1) о is pronounced as "а" in unstressed syllables
2) е is pronounced as "и" in unstressed syllables

This is a good first approximation but there are more details to it, you might want to read up on wikipedia or elsewhere:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel_reduction_in_Russian

The term 'reduction' comes from the fact that the Russian vowel inventory consisting of 5 sounds (а, о, у, и, е) is reduced to 3 sounds in unstressed syllables (а, у, и).


Thanks :D glad to read that, I guess that should make things a bit more simple :)

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby Itikar » 2013-10-01, 16:36

Good luck/buona fortuna/успехов for your good decision. :D
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto!
All corrections are welcome and appreciated.

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-10-01, 19:50

Itikar wrote:Good luck/buona fortuna/успехов for your good decision. :D


Thanks Ity :D can't wait to begin.

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby Halfdan » 2013-10-02, 3:34

voron wrote:2) е is pronounced as "и" in unstressed syllables


Is it just me, or is я pronounced as и in unstressed syllables as well?

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby voron » 2013-10-02, 11:51

Is it just me, or is я pronounced as и in unstressed syllables as well?

Correct!
Except that in word endings it is still a regular 'я'. For example in the word 'время':
http://www.forvo.com/word/%D0%B2%D1%80% ... %D1%8F/#ru

However if you ever happen to be in Belarus you won't hear 'я' pronounced as 'и'. We pronounce it as a regular 'я' in all positions. For example in the word 'язык':
http://www.forvo.com/word/%D1%8F%D0%B7%D1%8B%D0%BA/#ru
Notice how both speakers from Russia say [jizɨk] and both speakers from Belarus say [jazɨk].

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-10-10, 11:04

Ok, the day before yesterday I had my first Russian lesson, and today I have the second one.

The prof. was quite clear in explaining Russian phonetics, though I have a doubt about this vowel pair:

ай

We were reading some Russian names and came across Чайковский. The prof said we must pronounce it Čekovskij, the e being very short, maybe more of a schwa than a real e; but I'm not very sure I got it right, and I haven't understood whether it is a general rule or an exception.

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby Björn » 2013-10-10, 20:31

Good luck. :D
sv (sv)en (en) :D , ru (ru) :dunno:

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-10-10, 20:49

Björn wrote:Good luck. :D


Don't scare me xD

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby voron » 2013-10-11, 10:34

IpseDixit wrote:ай

This is yet another addition to those two 'rules of thumb' about the vowel reduction that I gave earlier in this thread. Let me put them all together:

1) 'о' is pronounced as 'а' in unstressed syllables
2) 'е' is pronounced as 'и' in unstressed syllables
i. 'я' is pronounced as 'и' in pretonic (=preceeding the stress) syllables
ii. 'а' is pronounced as 'и' in pretonic syllables after ж,ц,ч,ш,щ

In case of Чайковский, the rule ii. applies and the pronunciation becomes Čijkofski. That is, "ай" does not become a schwa, it becomes a diphtong 'ij'.

Rules i. and ii. are 'optional' in the sense that they are not observed by all Russian speakers. You will still sound native if you don't apply them (though maybe not a Moscow native :)).

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby jonc275 » 2013-11-10, 23:15

voron wrote:1) 'о' is pronounced as 'а' in unstressed syllables
2) 'е' is pronounced as 'и' in unstressed syllables
i. 'я' is pronounced as 'и' in pretonic (=preceeding the stress) syllables
ii. 'а' is pronounced as 'и' in pretonic syllables after ж,ц,ч,ш,щ

Rules i. and ii. are 'optional' in the sense that they are not observed by all Russian speakers. You will still sound native if you don't apply them (though maybe not a Moscow native :)).


Interesting you brought up the point about i. I almost always pronounce the я clearly, or at least semi-clearly. This is mainly because I often have trouble with second conjugation verbs sounding too similar (любит vs любят, приходит vs приходят) if the standard reduction is pronounced, so to give myself a little distinction, I pronounce the я clearly. Second, in Ukrainian, vowels are not significantly reduced (ялинка - jalynka with the я pronounced clearly) and I have a habit of carrying that rule into my Russian... I know, it's a bad habit :D And in fact, I never knew about rule ii. It just never really occurred to me.
native:  (us) | daily use & actively learning: B1  (ru) A2  (uk)
know but don't really use: A2  (es) A1-A2  (ro)  (mo) <A1  (ja)
interested  (cs) (most)  (it)  (sr)  (hr)  (sk)  (fr)  (kk)

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby Itikar » 2013-11-23, 13:13

Ipse, l'altro giorno ho scoperto che la casa editrice Aracne mette gentilmente a disposizione un libro gratuito sui casi appositamente studiato per studenti italiani. Mi sembra peraltro di qualità discreta. Dacci un'occhiata quando ti va. :)
http://www.aracneeditrice.it/pdf/9788854839250.pdf
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto!
All corrections are welcome and appreciated.

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby mōdgethanc » 2013-11-23, 19:23

voron wrote:1) 'о' is pronounced as 'а' in unstressed syllables
2) 'е' is pronounced as 'и' in unstressed syllables
i. 'я' is pronounced as 'и' in pretonic (=preceeding the stress) syllables
ii. 'а' is pronounced as 'и' in pretonic syllables after ж,ц,ч,ш,щ

Rules i. and ii. are 'optional' in the sense that they are not observed by all Russian speakers. You will still sound native if you don't apply them (though maybe not a Moscow native :)).
So I can say /jaˈzɨk/? Крутой!

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby voron » 2013-11-24, 1:47

mōdgethanc wrote:So I can say /jaˈzɨk/? Крутой!

Of course you can; I say /jaˈzɨk/ :) And yes, whenever I come to Russia people ask me based on how I speak "Are you from Belarus?" But it doesn't make me less a native.

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby IpseDixit » 2013-11-25, 14:44

Itikar wrote:Ipse, l'altro giorno ho scoperto che la casa editrice Aracne mette gentilmente a disposizione un libro gratuito sui casi appositamente studiato per studenti italiani. Mi sembra peraltro di qualità discreta. Dacci un'occhiata quando ti va. :)
http://www.aracneeditrice.it/pdf/9788854839250.pdf


Sembra molto interessante. Grazie per la condivisione. Gli darò un'occhiata seria quando riprenderò in mano questa lingua, ovverosia in primavera, al momento con gli esami da preparare il massimo che posso studiare è qualche lingua romanza :) .

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-05-28, 11:04

Hello everybody, can someone translate these phrases said by (or about, I don't know) Евгений Замятин, please:

Футуристы умерли. Футуристов больше нет: есть презентисты

Единственное оружие, достойное человека — завтрашнего человека — это слово

Умирает человек. Гордый homo erectus становится на четвереньки, обрастает клыками и шерстью, в человеке — побеждает зверь

Время крикнуть: человек человеку — брат!

Я боюсь, что у русской литературы одно только будущее: её прошлое

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby Golv » 2014-05-28, 12:31

My attempt:

- Futurists are dead. There aren't futurists any more - only "present-ists".

- The only weapon worthy of Man - the man of tomorrow - is the Word.

- Man dies. The proud Homo erectus is getting down on his fours and growing fur and fangs. Inside Man - the beast wins.

- It is time to shout: homo homini frater est! (paraphrase on the Latin phrase)

- I am afraid Russian literature has only one future: its past.

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-05-28, 13:06

спасибо / תודה :)

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Re: Russian - IpseDixit

Postby Golv » 2014-05-28, 14:20

аль ло давар. :)


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