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Question about vowels - UniLang

Question about vowels

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hauteville
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Question about vowels

Postby hauteville » 2010-07-12, 11:54

Ahoj! Ja ještě nemluvim moc český ale mam pitaně :)
I've just started learning Czech, because I'm going to Prague next month and after finishing the first lesson in "Teach Yourself Czech" I found two things difficult to me. The first is of course letter "ř", but I believe that the correct pronounciation will be a matter of practice. But the second thing makes me curious. I've found that there are long and short vowels in Czech language. Although this is quite helpful when I'm reading in Czech, I have some problems when I'm writing it - I know only that the last vowel in adjective (in Nominativ) should always be long. I wonder if Czechs make sometimes spelling mistakes in such cases. Is this similar situation as in Polish with "u" and "ó" (where Poles make often mistakes) or is it easier because you can discern short and long vowels easily?
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bibax
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Re: Question about vowels

Postby bibax » 2010-07-18, 21:20

Já ještě nemluvím moc dobře česky, ale mám otázku.

... I wonder if Czechs make sometimes spelling mistakes in such cases. Is this similar situation as in Polish with "u" and "ó" (where Poles make often mistakes) or is it easier because you can discern short and long vowels easily?

We do not make such spelling mistakes as we distinguish the short and long vowels very precisely in our speech. The only opportunity to make such a mistake is when the common (colloquial) pronunciation differs from the orthoepic one. The Polish ó and u are pronounced the same way therefore the Polish children do not have any clue in pronunciation. But we also have such pairs like ú/ů, i/y, í/ý, s/z, t/d, h/ch, š/ž, etc.

I know only that the last vowel in adjective (in nominative) should always be long.

Not correct. There are short (indefinite, nominal) and long (definite, complex) forms of adjectives. For example:

unavený, unavená, unavené, pl. unavení, unavené, unavená (long forms) = tired;
unaven, unavena, unaveno, pl. unaveni, unaveny, unavena (short forms) = tired;

The long forms are used as attributes.

unavené dítě = a tired child = zmęczone dziecię;

The short forms are used usually in the predicate.

Jsem unaven. = I'm so tired, I haven't slept a wink. :wink: = Jestem zmęczony.

(BTW in Czech zmučený means tortured)

Zatím. Pracy cześć!

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silmeth
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Re: Question about vowels

Postby silmeth » 2010-07-27, 12:44

Jeśli Ci to pomoże, w czeskim jest jeszcze kilka innych miejsc, oprócz długich form przymiotników, gdzie zawsze (lub prawie zawsze) gramatycznie pojawia się długa samogłoska (chociaż dogaduję się z Czechami i ponoć piszę lepiej od niejednego Czecha, to z długimi samogłoskami też mam cholerne problemy... ;-)).

Następujące końcówki w odmianie czasowników: -ím (np. prosím), -íme (prosíme), -á (dělá, dává), -ám (dělám, davám), etc. (więc też -áš, -áte... nastąpiło ściągnięcie z prasłowiańskiego -aje, stąd długa samogłoska), w trzeciej osobie liczby mnogiej zawsze jest długie -í albo -ou (tak możesz rozróżnić między on/ona/ono kryji (l. poj.) vs. oni/ony/ona kryjí (l. mn.)).

Celownik i miejscownik deklinacji żeńskiej w liczbie mnogiej: ženám, ženách, písním, písních (wyjątkiem są żeńskie zakończone twardą spółgłoską (zamiast -a lub -e): kostem, kostech).

W rzeczownikach odsłownych występuje końcówka -í (a nie, jak w polskim -ie/-ě), gdyż w czeskim w większości przypadków -e po miękkiej spółgłosce przeszło w -i. Stąd odpowiednikiem polskiego słowa pytanie (ale w znaczeniu "wykonywanie czynności zadawania pytania", gdyż pytanie to otázka) brzmi ptání (pytać to po czesku ptát (se)).
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Jestli ti to pomože, v češtině jsou ještě taková místa, kromě dlouhých přidavných jmén, kde vždycky (nebo skoro vždycky) objevují se dlouhé samohlásky (mimo toho, že mohu hovořit s Čechy, a někteří mluví, že pišu lépe než nějaký Čech, tež mám blbé problémy s dílkou samohlásek... ;-)).

Ty koncovky v časování sloves: -ím (např. prosím), -íme (prosíme), -á (dělá, dává), -ám (dělám, davám), etc. (taky tež -áš, -áte... praslovanské -aje se zkrátilo, proto je zde dlouhá samohláska), v 3. pl. je vždycky -í nebo -ou (věda to, můžeš uvidět rozdíl mezi on/ona/ono kryji (sg.) vs. oni/ony/ona kryjí (pl.)).

Třetí a šestý pad ženského skloňování v plural: ženám, ženách, písním, písních (vyjímkami jsou ženská slova, která se končí na tvrdou souhlásku (místo -a nebo -e): kostem, kostech.

V připadě podstatného jména slovesného je koncovka -í (a ne, jak v polštině, -ie/-ě), protože v českém -e po měkké souhlásce se měnilo v -i. Taky ekvivalent polského slova pytanie (ale jen znamenající "činnost kladení otázky", protože pytanie/otázka je otázka) zní ptání (pytać to v češtině ptát (se)).
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If it's helpful, in Czech there are some other situations, except long forms of adjectives, where always (or almost always) the "gramatical" long vowel occurs (Although I can talk to Czechs a little and some pf them state that I write better than some Czechs, I have damn problems with vowel length too... ;-)).

These endings in verb conjugation: -ím (eg. prosím), -íme (prosíme), -á (dělá, dává), -ám (dělám, davám), etc. (thus also -áš, -áte... proto-slavonic -aje shortened, this is why long vowel is here), in 3rd. pl. is always -í or -ou (knowing this you can see the difference between on/ona/ono kryji (sg.) vs. oni/ony/ona kryjí (pl.)).

Dative and Locative of feminine declension in plural: ženám, ženách, písním, písních (feminine words that ends with hard consonant (instead of -a or -e) are exceptions: kostem, kostech.

In gerundium forms there is ending -í (and not, as in Polish, -ie/-ě), because in Czech -e after soft consonant became -i. Thus equivalent of Polish word pytanie (but in the meaning of "action of asking a question", 'cause question is otázka) sounds ptání (to ask is ptát (se) in Czech).


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