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Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä - Page 106 - UniLang

Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Lumilintu » 2013-02-01, 0:01

I have a question about something that occured to me in the Finnish chat this evening:

hyvä, ettet ymmärrä.
kummallista, että se on niin.

... Why do I have to use the nominative case in the first and the partitive in the second sentence?
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Varislintu » 2013-02-03, 17:13

Lumilintu wrote:I have a question about something that occured to me in the Finnish chat this evening:

hyvä, ettet ymmärrä.
kummallista, että se on niin.

... Why do I have to use the nominative case in the first and the partitive in the second sentence?


I think because in the first one, an invisible "asia" is being implied:

On hyvä (asia), ettet ymmärrä.

In the second one, there's no implied "asia", it's a normal general statement that thus takes the partitive.
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Naava » 2013-02-04, 12:34

Surevsaha wrote:I have started to learn Finnish recently. One of the first phrases in the book I'm using is: Harjoittelen keskustelua joka päivä.

Is 'joka päivä' just a nominative?

Yes, "joka" requires nominative: joka päivä, joka aamu, joka vuosi. If you want some cases, you could say "harjoittelen keskustelua päivittäin" which means the same but looks more difficult. :D
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Lumilintu » 2013-02-04, 14:36

Varislintu wrote:
Lumilintu wrote:I have a question about something that occured to me in the Finnish chat this evening:

hyvä, ettet ymmärrä.
kummallista, että se on niin.

... Why do I have to use the nominative case in the first and the partitive in the second sentence?


I think because in the first one, an invisible "asia" is being implied:

On hyvä (asia), ettet ymmärrä.

In the second one, there's no implied "asia", it's a normal general statement that thus takes the partitive.


Hmm. So the asia can only be implied when using hyvä? Or would something like "On kummallinen (asia), ettet ymmärrä" be possible as well?
What if I use hyvä(ä) in the second sentence, would it be "hyvää, että se on niin" or would I have to use the nominative again?
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Varislintu » 2013-02-05, 7:31

I looked into it, and found this page that mentions that hyvä is an exception to the partitive rule, along with parempi and paha:

http://people.uta.fi/~km56049/finnish/partreas.html
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Lumilintu » 2013-02-05, 15:41

That page was pretty useful, kiitos!
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby language learner » 2013-02-15, 18:51

How are nouns from numbers formed?

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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Swienegel » 2013-02-24, 16:14

... isn't a numeral a noun?
I am not so sure what you mean, but I hope it's this:

Talking about the numbers as digits („What is 3?“ - „It's a three.“) or for example when playing cards („When someone plays an eight, the next player has to take two new cards“) you use these forms:

Ykkönen
Kakkonen
Kolmonen
Nelonen
Viitonen
Kutonen/Kuutonen
Seitsikko (just learned from Wiktionary this word exists... normal is colloqial „seiska“)
Kahdeksikko (any normal person says „kasi“)
Yhdeksikkö („ysi“)

You can also take these words for compisitions.
Example from Wiktionary:
- Kokkonen juoksee viitosradalla. - Kokkonen runs on track number five.
- Something or someone can also be „viitonen“, like the player nr. 5 in a football team.
( There is also, e. g. A finnish tv-station called Nelonen.)


Fun fact I also just learned from Wikipedia:
Erään teorian mukaan sana "kahdeksan" muodostuu vartalosta "kaksi" ja loppuosasta "-eksan", joka tarkoittaa "ei ole".
Vanhemman teorian mukaan loppuosaksi on luettava "-deksan", jolloin taustalla olisi latinan kymmentä tarkoittava sana. Joka tapauksessa kahdeksan olisi johdettu merkityksestä "kaksi pois kymmenestä".


Hope this was helpful.
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Naava » 2013-02-24, 19:43

Swienegel wrote:Fun fact I also just learned from Wikipedia:
Erään teorian mukaan sana "kahdeksan" muodostuu vartalosta "kaksi" ja loppuosasta "-eksan", joka tarkoittaa "ei ole".
Vanhemman teorian mukaan loppuosaksi on luettava "-deksan", jolloin taustalla olisi latinan kymmentä tarkoittava sana. Joka tapauksessa kahdeksan olisi johdettu merkityksestä "kaksi pois kymmenestä".


Interesting! I've never thought about it before, but it makes sense. In the same way "yhdeksän" would be "yksi pois kymmenestä"! :O That would also explain why these numbers are much longer than others (yk-si, kak-si...vii-si, kuu-si). But where "seitsemän" came from?

By the way, you forgot "kymppi" from your list. :) And "viitonen" can be "vitonen", too.
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Kohlensäure » 2013-06-08, 8:35

I am happy, that I will spend my exchange year 2013/2014 in Finland and I hope to become a lot better in Finnish. I recently got to know my host family and they live in Turku. My question now is: How much Swedish will I learn in Turku? Do the schools teach Swedish and are there many Swedes on the streets? Since Swedish is not that difficult for me as a german person, it would be cool if I'll be able to practice that there too.

Sorry, this question is not about the finnish language but it's probably easier to answer for an Fin.

Hiilihapolta :)
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Swienegel » 2013-06-09, 13:23

You will probably not pick up much Swedish on the streets. Of course you hear it sometimes, but it won't be enough to learn Swedish only from listening, even for a German.

You will most definetely have the opportunity to choose Swedish at school. If you are an exchange student in Lukio (or are you a university student?? Then you can just attend a swedish course and courses at the Aabo Academy anyways) you can choose your courses quite freely. And I think that every Lukio in Finland offers Swedish courses. But they won't start from zero since the Finns in Finnish-language education already start with Swedish in primary school. But my experience is that you can probably just go to the Swedish courses that your co-years attend and you won't be way behind.
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Virankannos » 2013-06-09, 20:20

According to Tilastokeskus (Statistics Finland), the number of Swedish-speakers (ie. who have registered themselves as such in the population register) was about 10.000, 5 % of the population of Turku, in 2012. Based on that, I would't expect to hear that much Swedish on the streets. Street signs are in both Finnish and Swedish though.

Finns start learning Swedish in primary school when they're roughly 12-13 years of age, and learn it for 3-4 years. If you continue to Lukio (upper secondary school, Gymnasium), you will go on learning Swedish there. It is compulsory for all Finnish citizens whose mother tongue is Finnish, so each Lukio has to offer Swedish courses. All universities do, as well.

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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Massimiliano B » 2013-06-09, 22:23

Can anybody tell me whether this is correct?

Kiinnostunut musiikista poika soittaa pianoa.

I think it's not correct.

Thank you in advance!
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Varislintu » 2013-06-10, 6:16

Kohlensäure wrote:I am happy, that I will spend my exchange year 2013/2014 in Finland and I hope to become a lot better in Finnish. I recently got to know my host family and they live in Turku. My question now is: How much Swedish will I learn in Turku? Do the schools teach Swedish and are there many Swedes on the streets? Since Swedish is not that difficult for me as a german person, it would be cool if I'll be able to practice that there too.

Sorry, this question is not about the finnish language but it's probably easier to answer for an Fin.

Hiilihapolta :)


You would have to seek the Swedish speakers out, and take part in their Swedish speaking activities. Most of us know Finnish, so in a mixed group Finnish is what we use -- you might not even know we speak Swedish, too. So yeah, your exposure would depend on how active you are in seeking it out. :)
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Virankannos » 2013-06-10, 8:38

Massimiliano B wrote:Can anybody tell me whether this is correct?

Kiinnostunut musiikista poika soittaa pianoa.

I think it's not correct.

Thank you in advance!
Otherwise impeccable, but we'll just have to tweak the word order a bit:

Musiikista kiinnostunut poika soittaa pianoa.

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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Seppo » 2013-10-31, 7:17

Löysin viimeinkin esimerkin sanan "oltavaksi" käyttämisestä:

"Sun on saatava huoneesi mukavammaksi oltavaksi, jos sä haluat että mä käyn täällä vielä."

Minusta se kuulostaa vähän oudolta. Mitä mieltä syntyperäiset suomalaiset ovat?
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Varislintu » 2013-10-31, 8:46

Sepp wrote:Löysin viimeinkin esimerkin sanan "oltavaksi" käyttämisestä:

"Sun on saatava huoneesi mukavammaksi oltavaksi, jos sä haluat että mä käyn täällä vielä."

Minusta se kuulostaa vähän oudolta. Mitä mieltä syntyperäiset suomalaiset ovat?


Valitettavasti tuo kuulostaa väärältä. "Oltavaksi" on tuossa ylimääräinen sana, sitä ei tarvittaisi. Ajattelitkohan fraasia "mukavamman oloiseksi" kun muodostit tuon? Koska se toimisi tuossa hyvin. :)
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Seppo » 2013-10-31, 12:31

Varislintu wrote:Valitettavasti tuo kuulostaa väärältä. "Oltavaksi" on tuossa ylimääräinen sana, sitä ei tarvittaisi. Ajattelitkohan fraasia "mukavamman oloiseksi" kun muodostit tuon? Koska se toimisi tuossa hyvin. :)

Ei se ole minun muodostamani lause. Eräs suomalaista alkuperää oleva toverini keksi sen.
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Varislintu » 2013-10-31, 12:55

Sepp wrote:
Varislintu wrote:Valitettavasti tuo kuulostaa väärältä. "Oltavaksi" on tuossa ylimääräinen sana, sitä ei tarvittaisi. Ajattelitkohan fraasia "mukavamman oloiseksi" kun muodostit tuon? Koska se toimisi tuossa hyvin. :)

Ei se ole minun muodostamani lause. Eräs suomalaista alkuperää oleva toverini keksi sen.


Niinkö? :o Hmm, luin sen monta kertaa päässäni uudestaan, mutta minusta se on kyllä auttamattomasti väärin -- se ei edes tunnu minusta murteelta tai puhekieleltä. Jotenkin minulla on tunne, että toverillasi oli entuudestaan päässään fraasi "mukavamman oloiseksi", ja siksi "mukavammaksi oltavaksi" kuulosti hänestä pintapuolisesti oikealta. :hmm:

On olemassa myös toinen samankaltainen fraasi: mukavat oltavat. Komparatiivi olisi 'mukavammat oltavat'. Sekin ehkä sekoittui mukaan ja harhautti hänen kielikorvaansa.
Last edited by Varislintu on 2013-11-06, 8:19, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Korjasin kirjoitusvirheen.
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Re: Questions about Finnish / Kysymyksiä suomen kielestä

Postby Virankannos » 2013-11-05, 22:07

Tuo lause ei kuulosta minunkaan korviini hyvältä. Siinä ovat jotenkin menneet erilaiset rakenteet sekaisin, ja tulos on hankala. Googlailin vähän ja löysin seuraavat esimerkit, joihin muoto oltavaksi mielestäni sopii:
    Maksimiaika, joka vedessä enintään suositellaan oltavaksi, on puolitoista tuntia.
    [T]unnilla suositellaan oltavaksi joko paljain jaloin tai lajin omissa, liukuestepohjaisissa sukissa.
    On se kumma,suomessa
    [sic] kyllä vaaditaan oltavaksi MAASSA MAAN TAVALLA - -.
    Onko tämä loma nyt vain tuomittu yksin oltavaksi.


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