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Noapte bună or Bună noaptea ? ? ? - UniLang

Noapte bună or Bună noaptea ? ? ?

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Levike
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Noapte bună or Bună noaptea ? ? ?

Postby Levike » 2013-05-01, 21:06

Why do we say NOAPTE BUNĂ and not BUNĂ NOAPTEA ?
De ce spunem NOAPTE BUNĂ și nu BUNĂ NOAPTEA ?

- Bună dimineața
- Bună ziua
- Bună seara
- Bună noaptea and not really

Could someone please give me an answer why did this evolve this way?
Ar putea cineva te rog să-mi dea un răspuns?
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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radio.gnome
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Re: Noapte bună or Bună noaptea ? ? ?

Postby radio.gnome » 2013-05-02, 11:10

For the same reason in german it is said:
Am Morgen
Am Vormittag
Am Mittag
Am Nachmittag
Am Abend
In der Nacht

It just happened to evolve that way. Ok, that wasn't a very scientific response, but I just found the coincidence interesting.

Also it is possible to say 'ziua bună' or 'seara bună', even though these forms are less used. Dimineaţa bună can never be used.

AdiJapan
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Re: Noapte bună or Bună noaptea ? ? ?

Postby AdiJapan » 2013-05-04, 12:06

Levente.Maier wrote:Why do we say NOAPTE BUNĂ and not BUNĂ NOAPTEA ?
De ce spunem NOAPTE BUNĂ și nu BUNĂ NOAPTEA ?

- Bună dimineața
- Bună ziua
- Bună seara
- Bună noaptea and not really

Could someone please give me an answer why did this evolve this way?
Ar putea cineva te rog să-mi dea un răspuns?

Formulele acestea de salut au două origini diferite: unele sînt constatări despre prezent (de obicei de natură meteorologică), iar altele sînt urări pentru viitor.

Gîndiți-vă cum au apărut astfel de formule. De exemplu un om era la muncă pe cîmp, iar un cunoscut de-al lui venea și spunea: „Ce faci, Gheorghe, semeni grîul? E bună ziua pentru semănat!” Puțin cîte puțin formula „e bună ziua pentru X” s-a standardizat, s-a simplificat și a devenit un simplu salut, care mai păstrează din exprimarea originară doar corelația cu perioada din zi: dimineață, prînz, seară.

Pe de altă parte, după ce au terminat munca, Ion și Vasile se despart și își urează: „Să ai parte de o noapte bună!”. Iarăși, exprimarea s-a simplificat și standardizat, devenind un simplu salut.

Iar asta explică și topica: Cînd faci o constatare spui „e bună dimineața”, „e bună seara” etc. Iar cînd urezi ceva spui „o noapte bună”.

Formulele de salut care derivă din constatări se folosesc la începutul conversației, la întîlnire, de exemplu „bună ziua”. Cele care derivă din urări se folosesc la despărțire, de exemplu „o zi bună”.
[flag]ro[/flag] maternă  [flag]us[/flag] pretty well  [flag]fr[/flag] pas mal  [flag]ja[/flag] 順調

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pittmirg
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Re: Noapte bună or Bună noaptea ? ? ?

Postby pittmirg » 2013-05-10, 19:45

Just a side question:

„e bună ziua pentru X”


Why not „e buna zi pentru X”? I thought there was a rule specifying that it is the adjective which takes on the definite form if it precedes a noun. Or is it different in nominal predicates?

Btw, Polish is quite chaotic in its greetings with respect to the relative order and general construction:

Dzień dobry! lit. day good (used from the morning till the afternoon)
Dobry wieczór! lit. good evening
Dobranoc! lit. goodnight (this time written and pronounced as one word)
Vîntŭ îl hrănea, apa-l îmbrăca, focŭ îl păzea, dă pămînt ferea.
Și la moartea-i, cădea-va o stea

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Levike
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Re: Noapte bună or Bună noaptea ? ? ?

Postby Levike » 2013-05-11, 11:16

Greetings and other stuff that we constantly use tend to not follow some rules.

"E buna zi pentru X" would sound weird.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

AdiJapan
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Re: Noapte bună or Bună noaptea ? ? ?

Postby AdiJapan » 2013-05-11, 16:33

pittmirg wrote:Just a side question:

„e bună ziua pentru X”


Why not „e buna zi pentru X”? I thought there was a rule specifying that it is the adjective which takes on the definite form if it precedes a noun. Or is it different in nominal predicates?

That rule you mention applies only for noun groups where the adjective determines the noun. More precisely, the rule is that the first word in the noun group takes the definite article, no matter whether it is a noun or an adjective, or whether it is the head noun or not. So you have: frumosul castel, castelul frumos, primul autobuz, camera copiilor, cuțitul de pe masă, etc. The rule is so strong that in a noun group you almost cannot place on the first position a word that can't receive a definite article (such as a verb, adverb, preposition); you have to put these later in the group. For instance, you can't have a noun group such as strălucește soare instead of soarele care strălucește. Most of the time the head noun is the first noun in the group. Other word orders tend to be marked, for emphasis, in poetry, etc.

But in the case you quote the noun and the adjective do not form a noun group. The adjective is part of the predicate e bună, while ziua is the subject. So that rule for the definite article doesn't apply.
[flag]ro[/flag] maternă  [flag]us[/flag] pretty well  [flag]fr[/flag] pas mal  [flag]ja[/flag] 順調

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pittmirg
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Re: Noapte bună or Bună noaptea ? ? ?

Postby pittmirg » 2013-05-11, 20:18

Uh-huh, thanks for explaining. Because of the order I assumed it was an existential clause.
Vîntŭ îl hrănea, apa-l îmbrăca, focŭ îl păzea, dă pămînt ferea.
Și la moartea-i, cădea-va o stea


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