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Language Course 1 - UniLang

Language Course 1

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geoff
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Postby geoff » 2003-05-23, 14:36

I am happy to finally see a Japanese page here. Japanese pronunciation is quite simple (leaving stress aside for now), but there are two minimal things one should know about pronunciation when reading the examples above.

One is about long vowels. Daniel wrote them like this, kōhī, so you should read them like "koohii". In transcription methods that copy the Japanese more exactly you see it as "kouhii", but it is pronounced as above.

Another issue is the sometimes almost silent "u". Some people sometimes write it as mimas(u), tabemas(u), gak(u)sei to indicate when it is not pronounced (well, it is, but you really have to concentrate to hear it), or when like a proper "u", such as in "inu". For beginners this certainly won't be obvious.

geoff

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Re: Japanese Place (Nihongo no Tokoro)

Postby Car » 2003-05-23, 14:37

Great! Just what I was waiting for!

1. You drink coffee.

Anata wa koohii o nomimasu.

2. The dog sees the cat.

Inu wa neko o mimasu.

3. The woman eats the cake.

Onna no hito wa keekii o tabemasu.

4. He buys the computer.

Kare wa konpyuuta o kaimasu.

5. The student reads the book.

Gakusei wa hon o yomimasu.

I doubled to vowel to show it's longer. What's the best way to do it? I've seen so many different ways...

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Postby pa-integral » 2003-05-23, 15:05

EXERCISE 1: Translate these sentences below into Japanese:

1. You drink coffee.
Anata wa kōhī o nomimasu.

2. The dog sees the cat.
Inu wa neko o mimasu.

3. The woman eats the cake.
Onna no hito wa kēkī o tabemasu.

4. He buys the computer.
Kare wa konpyūta o kaimasu.

5. The student reads the book.
Gakusei wa hon o yomimasu.


I studied Japanese for one year but I remember hardly anything! :wink:
Last edited by pa-integral on 2003-05-23, 15:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby E}{pugnator » 2003-05-23, 15:18

It's just too good to be true!! A Japanese Corner!

I've always been interested in Japanese, I just miss a Brazilian book I plan to buy when I have money...I already have Le Japonais sans peine, which is good. Meanwhile, I think we can have a nice time here at the forum...

I still haven't learned hiragana/katakana yet, and as I can see this thread is being run in romaji, this won't be a problem. I think we can concentarte in grammar then, I love Japanese grammar.

Well, that's it, I think I've wrote too much.

Expug
Learning Georgian, Mandarin Chinese, Russian and Papiamentu from scratch. Trying to brush up my Norwegian up to an advanced level.

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Re: Japanese Place (Nihongo no Tokoro)

Postby ekalin » 2003-05-23, 17:18

Daniel wrote:1. You drink coffee.

Anata wa kōhī o nomimasu.

Daniel wrote:2. The dog sees the cat.

Inu wa neko o mimasu.

Daniel wrote:3. The woman eats the cake.

Onna no hito wa kēkī o tabemasu.

Daniel wrote:4. He buys the computer.

Kare wa konpyūta o kaimasu.

Daniel wrote:5. The student reads the book.

Gakusei wa hon o yomimasu.

Japanese is a language I'd like to learn. Perhaps not exactly now, but that does not prevent me from doing these exercises, at least for the fun of it.
This gubblick contains many nosklarkish English flutzpahs, but the overall pluggandisp can be glorked from context. – David Moser

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Postby Psi-Lord » 2003-05-23, 17:35

Hurray! One more place to practice! :)

By the way, a link on romanisation for those who'd like to read more about it: http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/afaq/kana-roman.html.
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Postby Car » 2003-05-23, 20:41

Daniel wrote:If the 'u' comes after or stands between unvoiced consonants then it is hushed (not silent but rather hushed or whispered). Otherwise the 'u' must be heard as in:

So gak(u)sei BUT inu (because the 'n' is voiced).

But when speaking formally, the 'u' in the verbs ending in -masu must be spoken.

Oh, by the way, I've decided to use only romaji (that is, Japanese written in Roman script). But if you are interested in learning the hiragana and katakana (also known as the kana syllabary), I can create another thread concentrating on the kana syllabary. Let me know!


Thanks for explaining the thing with the "u", I wondered when one pronounces it and when one doesn't.
I'm interested in the kana syllabary, too.

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Postby Car » 2003-05-24, 16:33

1. I don't drink beer.

Watashi wa biiru o nomimasen.

2. The man does not write the letter.

Otoko no hito wa tegami o kakimasen.

3. The student isn't watching the TV.

Gakusei wa terebi o mimasen.

4. The woman doesn't eat the cake.

Onna no hito wa keekii o tabemasen.

5. The cat doesn't see the dog.

Neko wa inu o mimasen.

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Postby Car » 2003-05-24, 16:38

1. Anata wa seibishi desu.

You are a mechanic.

2. Watashi wa kagakusha de wa arimasen.

I am not a scientist.

3. Haha wa sensei desu.

My mother is a ???

4. Kare wa isha ja arimasen.

He is not a doctor.

5. Watashi no tomodachi wa nōmin desu.

My friend is a farmer.

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Postby pa-integral » 2003-05-27, 11:26

[EXERCISE 2]

1. I don't drink beer.
Watashi wa bīru o nomimasen.

2. The man does not write the letter.
Otoko no hito wa tegami o kakimasen.

3. The student isn't watching the TV.
Gakusei wa terebi o mimasen.

4. The woman doesn't eat the cake.
Otoko no hito wa kēkī o tabemasen.

5. The cat doesn't see the dog.
Neko wa inu o mimasen.

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Postby pa-integral » 2003-05-27, 11:29

[EXERCISE 3]


1. Anata wa seibishi desu.
You are a mechanic.

2. Watashi wa kagakusha de wa arimasen.
I am not a scientist.

3. Haha wa sensei desu.
My mother is a teacher.

4. Kare wa isha ja arimasen.
He is not a doctor.

5. Watashi no tomodachi wa nōmin desu.
My friend is a farmer.

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Postby Car » 2003-05-28, 9:31

1. Nōmin wa Porutogaru kara desu.

The farmer is from Portugal.

2. Kagakusha wa Burazirujin de wa arimasen.

The scientist is not Brazilian.

3. Seibishi wa Chūgokugo o hanashimasu.

The mechanic speaks Chinese.

4. Kore* kōhī wa Indo kara desu ka?

Is this coffee from India?

5. Gakusei no terebi wa Nihon kara de wa arimasen ka?

Is the student's computer not from Japan?

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Postby pa-integral » 2003-05-30, 16:47

EXERCISE 4: Translate into English:

1. Nōmin wa Porutogaru kara desu.
The farmer is from Portugal.

2. Kagakusha wa Burazirujin de wa arimasen.
The cientist is not Brazilian.

3. Seibishi wa Chūgokugo o hanashimasu.
The mechanic speaks Chinese.

4. Kore* kōhī wa Indo kara desu ka?
Is this cofee from India?

5. Gakusei no terebi wa Nihon kara de wa arimasen ka?
Isn't the student's television from Japan?

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Postby ekalin » 2003-05-31, 20:09

Daniel wrote:EXERCISE 2: Translate into Japanese:

1. I don't drink beer.

Watashi wa bīru o nomimasen.

Daniel wrote:2. The man does not write the letter.

Otoko no hito wa tegami o kakimasen.

Daniel wrote:3. The student isn't watching the TV.

Gakusei wa terebi o mimasen.

Daniel wrote:4. The woman doesn't eat the cake.

Onna no hito kēkī o tabemasen

Daniel wrote:5. The cat doesn't see the dog.

Neko wa inu o mimasen.


Daniel wrote:EXERCISE 3: Translate into English:

1. Anata wa seibishi desu.

You are a mechanic.

Daniel wrote:2. Watashi wa kagakusha de wa arimasen.

I'm not a scientist.

Daniel wrote:3. Haha wa sensei desu.

My mother is a teacher.

Daniel wrote:4. Kare wa isha ja arimasen.

He is not a doctor.

Daniel wrote:5. Watashi no tomodachi wa nōmin desu.

My friend is a farmer.


Daniel wrote:EXERCISE 4: Translate into English:

1. Nōmin wa Porutogaru kara desu.

The farmer is from Portugal.

Daniel wrote:2. Kagakusha wa Burazirujin de wa arimasen.

The scientist is not Brasilian.

Daniel wrote:3. Seibishi wa Chūgokugo o hanashimasu.

The mechanic talks Chinese.

Daniel wrote:4. Kore* kōhī wa Indo kara desu ka?

Is this coffe from India?

Daniel wrote:5. Gakusei no terebi wa Nihon kara de wa arimasen ka?

Isn't the student's TV from Japan?


Daniel wrote:EXERCISE 5: Translate into English:

1. Onna no hito wa resutoran de sushi o tabemasen.

The woman eats sushi in the restaurant.

Daniel wrote:2. Watashi wa daigaku de oshiemasu.

I teach at the university.

Daniel wrote:3. Haha wa beddo de nemasu.

My mother sleeps in the bed.

Daniel wrote:4. Watashi no tomodachi wa gakkō de eiga o mimasu.

My friend sees a film in the school.

Daniel wrote:5. Anata wa eigakan de nemasen. Zasshi o yomimasu.

You don't sleep in the cinema.You read maganize.


Daniel wrote: EXERCISE 6: Read the text and answer the questions below:

Gakusei wa kyō daigaku ni ikimasen. Tomodachi to eiga o mitai desu. Shukudai o shimasu. Sorekara tomodachi o mimasu. Eigakan ni issho ni ikimasu. Ashita daigaku ni ikimasu.

1. Does the student go to the university?

Gakusei wa daikagu ni ikimasen.

Daniel wrote:2. What does he want to do?

Eiga o mitai desu.

Daniel wrote:3. What does he do before seeing a friend?

Sorekara o shimasu.

Daniel wrote:4. Where are they going together?

Eigakan ni issho ni ikimasu.

Daniel wrote:5. What are they doing tomorrow?

Daikagu ni ashita ikimasu.
This gubblick contains many nosklarkish English flutzpahs, but the overall pluggandisp can be glorked from context. – David Moser

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Postby Car » 2003-06-01, 19:36

1. Onna no hito wa resutoran de sushi o tabemasen.

A woman eats sushi in a restaurant.

2. Watashi wa daigaku de oshiemasu.

I teach at a university.

3. Haha wa beddo de nemasu.

My mother sleeps in her bed.

4. Watashi no tomodachi wa gakkō de eiga o mimasu.

My friend sees a film at school.

5. Anata wa eigakan de nemasen. Zasshi o yomimasu.

You don't sleep at the cinema. Read a magazine.



1. Does the student go to the university?

Gakusei wa daigaku ni ikimasen. / The student doesn't got to the university.

2. What does he want to do?

Kare wa eiga o mitai desu. / He wants to see a film.

3. What does he do before seeing a friend?

Shukudai o shimasu. / He does homework.

4. Where are they going together?

Eigakan ni issho ni ikimasu./ They go together to the cinema.

5. What are they doing tomorrow?

Ashita daigaku ni ikimasu./ Tomorrow they go to the university.

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Postby pa-integral » 2003-06-04, 18:50

EXERCISE 5: Translate into English:

1. Onna no hito wa resutoran de sushi o tabemasen.
The woman doesn't eat sushi at the restaurant.

2. Watashi wa daigaku de oshiemasu.
I teach at the university.

3. Haha wa beddo de nemasu.
Mum sleeps in bed.

4. Watashi no tomodachi wa gakkō de eiga o mimasu.
My friend watches a film at school.

5. Anata wa eigakan de nemasen. Zasshi o yomimasu.
You don't sleep at the cinema. (You) read the magazine.

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Pronunciation

Postby ekalin » 2003-06-05, 12:21

I think you should say something about pronunciation. Anyway, I think I've found information about almost everything. Just a few sounds still left me in doubt:

The sounds of the "z" and "d" families ("s" and "t" with the two little strokes), when combined with "i" and "u". More specifically, these four sounds: じ, ず, ぢ, づ.

Apparently both "zi" and "di" are pronounced the same way (and often written "ji"); similarly "zu" for "du" (often written also as "zu").

But exactly how should these be pronounced? With an English "z" and "j"? Or is the "j" like in French (or English measure)?
This gubblick contains many nosklarkish English flutzpahs, but the overall pluggandisp can be glorked from context. – David Moser

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Postby Psi-Lord » 2003-06-06, 3:25

In the meantime, if someone wants to have a look at something, I believe he can enjoy reading the information at http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/~ts/japanese/index.html on the subject. Just follow the links to Phoneme and Morae, then move on to the links grouped under Standard Hiragana and Double Hiragana.

P.S.: Dan, I hope you don't mind my jumping in to share the link. :) You're doing a very good job yourself here, by the way.
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Guest

Postby Guest » 2003-06-07, 4:37

Actually, "seibishi ha chuugokugo wo hanashimasu" is incorrect.

I don't remember whether or not "hanasu" is a transitive verb in Japanese, but I do know that you don't want to have the language somebody is using as the direct object of the verb (that's what WO does).

It should be "seibishi ha chuugokugo de hanashimasu".

Also, I think it's important to tell learners that in Japanese pronouns are usually left out, and it's especially rare to hear words such as "kare" and "kanojo".

Also, I personally feel that words should be taught by their Japanese units, not by their English units (ie, instead of "woman" for "onna no hito", it should be "onna" for female, "no" for of, and "hito" for person. also a reminder that "onna" is enough to refer to a girl, as otoko is for a guy)

And one last correction: "you're welcome" should be "douitashimashite"

Oh... also... Brasil is supposed to be "burajiru". (imported this way because 'zi' sounds aren't availible in Japanese)

And... J should be as in english...

also... the EI in EIGO should be pronounced as a long E...

And I'm not sure about you, but I personally believe that people will have a much easier time later when they're learning to write Japanese if they know helpful things like wo=o (in many songs it's sung that way, and plenty of people still say it that way in speech), and ha=wa. Also that instead of O with a macron, it should be specified OO or OU (there's a difference, such as ookii, and ougen or ou)

Guest

Postby Guest » 2003-06-12, 18:29

Well, if you say you speak a language you use "o" after the language you speak but if you say you are speaking IN a language you use "de":

Nihongo [b]o
hanashimasu. - I speak Japanese.
Nihongo de hanashimasu. - I speak in Japanese.

I am intending to discuss further purposes of de in later lessons.[/b]

Point taken. You just made me realise that what I used to say (×語話すことができる人なれば...) sounds really awkward, while what I have been saying more recently (×語話すことができる人なれば...) is a lot less awkward.

I understand the use of Japanese spelling but I have adopted the rōmaji Hepburn system which is said to be better suited for learners. The one that is officially used in Japan is called the rōmaji Kunrei system which is what you have just written (ha instead of wa, etc).

Hmm... point taken... but still... at least oo versus ou, and maybe ei versus ee, but other than that, it's easy to learn once you learn to write Japanese (o as a particle is wo, wa as a particle is ha unless it's at the end of a sentence, etc)

However, thanks for pointing your opinions out for me. I really appreciate that a lot and I value your opinions just as important. By the way, I am very :oops: about the spelling of "dōitashimashite".

---

Daniel[/quote]


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