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Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical) - UniLang

Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

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Your core beliefs (religious/life phil/spiritual/ethical)

Postby proycon » 2006-10-06, 8:03

What are your core beliefs? What beliefs form the core of your life's philosophy, your spirituality, morality or YOUR religion (I'm asking for a personalized account! Also, no political views please, unless they really form the core of your life's philosophy!). Try to form some kind of list, more-or-less in order of the importance to you. And be specific, so no things like "I believe in the bible", but instead "I believe in the ten commands as written in the Bible". Feel free to ask questions about the lists of others, but don't condemn or ridiculize anyone's view!

Note that you don't have to be religiously affiliated to participate.

Here's my list (Buddhist): I believe ...

- ... that practically everybody is suffering (dukkha, this includes anything from mild irritation to full fledged agony)
and that all of us strive towards happiness and non-suffering, but have a hard time doing so.
- ... that the causes of this suffering are attachment (upādana) and ignorance [regarding this] (avidya). The primary attachment and most persistant of all attachments being the attachment to a self/soul/ego, and to the continuitity of things/phenomena. Both of which are illusions (anatta & anicca)
- .... that there can be the cessation of suffering, through detachment from materials, views and self and by cultivating an unconditional compassion towards everyone, intending to help all relieve suffering.
- .... that all is inherently without essence (empty, sunyata) and that nothing has independent existance, but rather exists only in relation to other things/phenomena. Moreover, I believe there is no essence in the self (anatta, soullessness).
- .... that all is impermanent (anicca).
- .... that there is a potential within everyone to overcome his/her/all suffering.
- .... that there is no single "Truth" that can be captured in just a single conceptual framework, but rather that multiple roads can lead to the goal of a cessation of suffering [for all]. Moreover, I believe that absolutism regarding views is only detrimental to the cause of relieving (all) suffering. as this would constitute a great attachment.

Next one please :)
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Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2006-10-06, 8:15

I love lists, but I believe that you can't put belief in a list? :P

Well, here's my try:

-Everything is energy. God is pure energy, but because you can't know what is pure when everything is pure, He made the world for the energy to learn.
-In everyone/everything is some good, pure energy.
-The Bible is there to make things more clear for people, so that they know what to believe. Jesus is our example, he showed how to live and to believe.
-My favourite sentence when I was young: everything can be worse.
-If you believe/pray/say something will happen, it happens, unless someone else (or more persons) believes/prays/says it harder. It is not about what is right or wrong, people make things happen. If you fear hard enough, it can become true too. It is just the movement of the energy.
Interests: lots.
Motivation: little.

Corrections appreciated.

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Postby CoBB » 2006-10-06, 9:52

Why not? :P However, I can’t really order them by importance.

- There’s no absolute notion of good and bad.
- There is no real free will and no random events; everything is related and the relations are fixed, as there’s only one possible world (I regard any possible notion of ‘parallel worlds’ as a single system). However, because of our severely limited knowledge of reality, we can have a perfect illusion of free will.
- The world cannot be created. It just is.
- The world is fair, i.e. everything is subject to the same laws (physics). Unfortunately, this fairness doesn’t coincide with the human sense of justice, which desires rewards and punishments for what it perceives as good and bad.
- It doesn’t make sense to distinguish between living and non-living on the grand scale. There are just various structures with different properties.
- It is impossible to grok the world in its entirety, not just for humans but any self-conscious entity that can possibly exist.
- Every structure capable of suffering from and enjoying its existence is trying to work (through their illusory free will) towards experiencing the latter. However, the goals of individuals are often conflicting. For reasons explored by game theory, I don’t think this problem could be solved even by global knowledge of the world. On the other hand, considering the goals of others and cooperation is clearly beneficial, because it often prevents you from getting stuck in a local maximum, which is typically a short-term advantage.

Miért ne? :P Viszont nem igazán tudom fontosság szerint sorbaállítani őket.

- Nincs abszolút jó és rossz.
- Nincs igazi szabad akarat és véletlen események; minden összefügg és a kapcsolatok adottak, mert csak egy lehetséges világ van (bármilyen lehetséges „párhuzamos világokat” egy rendszernek tekintek). Viszont a valóságról alkotott tudásunk hiányossága miatt rendelkezhetünk a szabad akarat tökéletes illúziójával.
- A világ nem teremthető. Egyszerűen csak van.
- A világ igazságos, azaz mindenre ugyanazok a törvények vonatkoznak (fizika). Sajnos ez az igazságosság nem esik egybe az emberi igazságérzettel, amely az általa jónak és rossznak vélt dolgokat jutalmazni és büntetni akarja.
- Nagy léptékben nincs értelme az élő és a nem élő között különbséget tenni. Csak különböző tulajdonságú rendszerek léteznek.
- Nem lehet a világot teljes egészében felfogni. Ez nem csak az emberekre, hanem minden lehetséges öntudattal rendelkező entitásra vonatkozik.
- Minden rendszer, amely képes szenvedni és élvezni a létezését, próbál az utóbbi élmény felé haladni (a képzeletbeli szabad akaratán keresztül). Viszont az egyének céljai gyakran ütik egymást. A játékelmélet által feltérképezett okok miatt nem hiszem, hogy ez a probléma megoldható lenne, még a világ teljes ismeretében sem. Másrészről mások céljainak figyelembe vétele és az együttműködés határozottan előnyös, mert gyakran segít elkerülni, hogy lokális maximumba ragadj, amely tipikusan rövid távú nyereség.
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Postby pastorant » 2006-10-06, 10:07

Jesus is more than an example of how to live. He claimed he was God and that without belief in Him we are all doomed to hell.
That's a pretty bold statement. Someone said he thought we were "energy"? Why do you think so? My God said he created each person individually, and knows them by name even when they don't know Him. I also believe that the God I speak of loves the world so much, he sacrificed himself to pay the penalty for sins we could not pay.
God says that if He did not reveal himself, nobody would know who he was. And then people would create their own philophies. We are all like lost sheep without a shephard. But the master shephard has written laws in stone so we live a life of joy. But we as sinners, REJECT the laws of God. We rebel against the simples rules of Jesus. So we make our own, and find it hard to follow those, but at least they're easier than Jesus's laws, right?
"Love him who hates you". He followed every single law to the letter. When he came to earth as an "avatar" so to speak, lived as man did, had the same temptations and yet lived perfectly, he bore our sins and took the punishment we deserve. If we don't accept his sacrifice, and choose to believe our own thing, we die in our sins :(
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Postby leppie » 2006-10-06, 10:18

pastorant wrote:If we don't accept his sacrifice, and choose to believe our own thing, we die in our sins :(


And so be it...
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Postby Varislintu » 2006-10-06, 11:18

pastorant wrote:We are all like lost sheep without a shephard.


I've never understood this analogy. I mean, before sheep were tamed, they got along just fine even without shephards ;).
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Postby Babelfish » 2006-10-06, 11:24

Here goes...
:!: Atheist, or at least agnostic. I don't know how to disprove the existence of an omnipotent & omniscient & omnipresent God, but neither do I see proof to His existence (isn't belief intended to be without proof? :wink: ). This world doesn't seem to me as if someone is actually managing it, let alone someone having justice in mind...
:!: Right and wrong do exist. But they can most probably be explained through the development of societies, or even evolution. Would you like to live in a society where everyone is allowed to kill, rape, physically hurt you? Would you like to live in one where everything you have is common property and might not be available to you personally when you want it? In one where some people have more rights than others for no good reason (meaning they're not you :P) etc. etc.
:!: Life on earth was created by evolution. Anyway, I think that even people who don't believe in that, would accept that evolution itself does exist and changes species, since it is so simple, automatic and inevitable.
:!: The universe was apparently created by a big explosion the source of which we don't know - yet. This is no great explanation, just a conclusion from evidence.
:!: There's no [evidence for] heaven, hell, afterlife of any kind. It is most disturbing to me to accept, but I guess that when we die, we simply are no more. Just like when we sleep or are unconscious in any other way - but forever. :?
:?: I've no idea how to explain self-consciousness, or free will. Oh well.

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Postby CoBB » 2006-10-06, 11:37

Varislintu wrote:I've never understood this analogy. I mean, before sheep were tamed, they got along just fine even without shephards ;).

Just as Harry Harrison wrote in The Streets of Ashkelon. ;)

Ahogy Harry Harrison is írta az Ashkelon utcáiban. ;)
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Postby Nero » 2006-10-06, 12:40

I pretty much agree with Pastorant as far as religion (though in practice I have a long way to go).

-Born Protestant, Methodist by denomination, 1990
-Didn't agree with Methodist teaching / doctrine, left that denomination during teenage years
-Searched in Baptist, Non-Denominational, Lutheran, and Presbyterian churches for years without finding the answer.
-Became Catholic as of April 2010, couldn't be happier.


I have more to write about this but I'm at school and I can't access any non-educational websites, so I can't write more quotes etc. Maybe later I will.
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Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2006-10-06, 14:20

pastorant wrote:Jesus is more than an example of how to live. He claimed he was God and that without belief in Him we are all doomed to hell.
That's a pretty bold statement. Someone said he thought we were "energy"? Why do you think so? My God said he created each person individually, and knows them by name even when they don't know Him. I also believe that the God I speak of loves the world so much, he sacrificed himself to pay the penalty for sins we could not pay.
God says that if He did not reveal himself, nobody would know who he was. And then people would create their own philophies. We are all like lost sheep without a shephard. But the master shephard has written laws in stone so we live a life of joy. But we as sinners, REJECT the laws of God. We rebel against the simples rules of Jesus. So we make our own, and find it hard to follow those, but at least they're easier than Jesus's laws, right?
"Love him who hates you". He followed every single law to the letter. When he came to earth as an "avatar" so to speak, lived as man did, had the same temptations and yet lived perfectly, he bore our sins and took the punishment we deserve. If we don't accept his sacrifice, and choose to believe our own thing, we die in our sins :(
I can't really explain in English why I think everything is energy, but is how I see it. God is pure energy and Jesus was too, kind of, so yes, Jesus is also God. But the thing is, you consider God more like a person, someone/-thing that can know names and I don't. I can't believe such thing, I can't imagine that a personlike God is in heaven or something. I can handle energy though :wink:

I made bold the line I don't get, which means that I just don't know what it means, what it says.

What are Jesus' roles then? The things you said, I all agree with them, except for the last sentence. I don't believe in sins, I guess. Something can be considered as good or wrong, that's all. Earth exists so people can do that.
Interests: lots.
Motivation: little.

Corrections appreciated.

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Postby pastorant » 2006-10-06, 14:52

Vogelvrij wrote:God says that if He did not reveal himself, nobody would know who he was.


If God did not tell us about himself, we would not know about him. We would make up religions (which we have done) to satisfy us. Do you understand a little better?

The point is, we CAN'T understand God at all, that's why he has to explain it to us. We can't just guess.
Can you explain the internet to a cat? You can't even explain yourself to a cat! A cat would never imagine us. Humans trying to explain God is like 2 computers saying they were created from random parts ;)

Of course you can understand energy. But God the creator of the universe is beyond our direct comprehension, so he came to our level and used terms we can understand. He is like both a mother and a father. He SHOWED us love. He gave us predictions of the future and he performed miracles, then we crucified him because he said "unless you believe in me, you'll go to hell". I understand why they were angry then, just as people are angry now.
Jesus gives us love and mercy, buy he also said he will cause anger, fighting and division in families and nations. Pretty true, huh? That's because people don't WANT to have to answer to anybody. They want to do what they want with accountability. I have kids. That is DEFINITELY true ;)
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Postby proycon » 2006-10-06, 14:54

Nero wrote:I have more to write about this but I'm at school and I can't access any non-educational websites, so I can't write more quotes etc


Hey! UniLang is very educational! :)
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Postby proycon » 2006-10-06, 14:56

Vogelvrij, do you have a clearer notion of what this 'energy' is? Or is it a rather vague concept even for you yourself?
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Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2006-10-06, 14:58

pastorant wrote:
Vogelvrij wrote:God says that if He did not reveal himself, nobody would know who he was.


If God did not tell us about himself, we would not know about him. We would make up religions (which we have done) to satisfy us. Do you understand a little better?

The point is, we CAN'T understand God at all, that's why he has to explain it to us. We can't just guess.
Can you explain the internet to a cat? You can't even explain yourself to a cat! A cat would never imagine us. Humans trying to explain God is like 2 computers saying they were created from random parts ;)

Of course you can understand energy. But God the creator of the universe is beyond our direct comprehension, so he came to our level and used terms we can understand. He is like both a mother and a father. He SHOWED us love. He gave us predictions of the future and he performed miracles, then we crucified him because he said "unless you believe in me, you'll go to hell". I understand why they were angry then, just as people are angry now.
Jesus gives us love and mercy, buy he also said he will cause anger, fighting and division in families and nations. Pretty true, huh? That's because people don't WANT to have to answer to anybody. They want to do what they want with accountability. I have kids. That is DEFINITELY true ;)
Yes, I understand it know, thank you.

It is weird, I know you belief very different things, I mean, you are a real christian and I am... well, not a very conventional christian, but all the things you say here, I really agree with them :)


@proycon: really vague, actually. If you want to see it less vague, you can read the bible. It is a bit the same anyway, only is the bible more comprehensivly, I think.
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Postby Zjoris » 2006-10-06, 15:11

Men (and women) are animals. Animals live in the here and now, and beyond that they do not consider anything much. They adapt to the circumstances to the best of their abilities.

Humans have gained a distinct understanding of time and death, which makes suffering almost constantly present, because knowing you will eventually suffer again, and finally die, is an unsettling thought. The entire notion of any kind of life after death is (in my view) nothing more than the inability of man to come to terms with this realization of his own finity (death). Trying to live according to a code of good and bad could be a way to keep the illusion going that eventually, you will not truly die, but live on (in heaven, reincarnated in this world, or wherever).

Another explanation of ethical behavior (good and bad) is that it's simply an extension of the will to survive, which is present in all animals alike. The primal instinct of the individual to survive lies in feeding, fleeing when in danger, and trying to reproduce. In an extended form, survival (of the species) is more likely if individuals function as a group. Therefore, social behaviour (feeding the group, protecting the group, warning the group for danger, helping the group reproduce) is instinctively perceived as "good".

I do not believe in a supernatural being who created the universe, let alone put us in charge.

I believe that the notions of good and bad are merely linguistic phenomena and in fact are very relative concepts, depending on the here and now of any given situation (which is why it is so easy to manipulate people with these words). Good for animals are things that are good for survival. Likewise, things that are perceived as good for and by humans, are usually things that will (in their perception) help them survive.

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Postby proycon » 2006-10-06, 15:34

I do like Pastorant's "we can't understand God"-view and even agree with it, I'd rephrase it as "ultimate reality can't be caught in a conceptual framework, as it will always ADD something onto it", in this way the view is highly compatible with Buddhist philosophy as well.

But I find it hard to reconciliate this view Pastorant has with the fact that he and his faction do claim to know the complete "Word of God", even in an exclusivist way (in other words: only they are right and know the truth and everybody else is wrong). While Pastorant admitted to not being able to conceptualize God, he does claim to be fully able to conceptualize his exact 'commandments' for mankind.

In Christian Theology a lot of emphasis is of course put on the Bible, which itself is a great object of faith, but how are Christians so convinced the Bible is perfect or even accurate? In Islamic theology, the Quran is said to be the exact words of God, as received by Muhammed through Gabriel. And that not a single letter is mistaken. I wonder how Fundamentalist Christians view the accuracy of Bible, as i believe they do acknowledge that it has been the work of countless different men? In order to claim to know the word of God, which in all Christian sects draws from the bible, you have to be sure this bible does actually contain the word of God, and has not been influenced by other historic man-made objectives. How do such Christians perceive the synods who around 400AD composed the Bible, I can't help but notice that they must place an immense faith in them for having selected the correct gospels, despite these synods not belonging to their sect but to the Roman Catholic Church! Many of whose teachings are now opposed by protestant/reformed christians! I was hoping Pastorant could offer his view on this immense faith placed in the Bible, in the light of its history of composition.
(Not surprisingly, this issue is also often used/abused by Muslims to prove the Quran is more reliable and accurate than the bible...)

And how do Fundamentalist Christians regard all those countless 'apocryphal' gospels that did not make it into the new testament? (Gospel of Judas, Thomas, Mary Magdalene... and countless more).



Btw Pastorant, I haven't seen your list yet :)

More lists people! More lists! :)
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Postby pastorant » 2006-10-06, 15:51

I'll try to answer the questions as I remember them. Believe it or not, I was a Satan worshipper in my teen years. I used to burn churches. I had an intense hatred for the church. To make a long story short, I basically had a "Damascus Road" experience. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_to_Damascus )
I finished college, got my PhD in Linguistics, THEN I went to seminary and became an ordained minister.
While the catholic church put together the canon, God promised us he would keep His word. While professing christians deny most of the Cathoic theology, most of the catholic theology was devised during St. Thomas Aquinas's era. After the Nicean council. The canon was chosen not by vote, but by most of the apostles during the 1st century. All the letters of Paul were past around and even Peter accepted them as scripture. Nothing after the last apostes death was accepted into the canon. Most of the Gnostic gospels were forgeries and were not even needed. They all went against pre-revealed doctrine or had historical errors. The Apocrypha accepted by the Catholics was never even accepted by the Jews, but were included in separate scrolls for their "historic interest". They were never included as scripture, not are they quoted in the New Testament.

Here's my list:
1.

I BELIEVE...The Scriptures are Inspired by God and declare His design and plan for mankind.
2.

I BELIEVE...There is only One True God–revealed in three persons...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (commonly known as the Trinity).
3.

I BELIEVE...In the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. As God's son Jesus was both human and divine.
4.

I BELIEVE...though originally good, Man Willingly Fell to Sin–ushering evil and death, both physical and spiritual, into the world.
5.

I BELIEVE...Every Person Can Have Restored Fellowship with God Through 'Salvation' (accepting Christ's offer of forgiveness for sin).
6.

I BELIEVE...and practice two ordinances—(1) Water Baptism by Immersion after repenting of one's sins and receiving Christ's gift of salvation, and (2) Holy Communion (the Lord's Supper) only as a symbolic remembrance of Christ's suffering and death for our salvation.
7.

I BELIEVE...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Special Experience Following Salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and effective service, just as it did in New Testament times.
8.

I BELIEVE... The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is ‘Speaking in Tongues,’ as experienced on the Day of Pentecost and referenced throughout Acts and the Epistles.
9.

I BELIEVE...Sanctification Initially Occurs at Salvation and is not only a declaration that a believer is holy, but also a progressive lifelong process of separating from evil as believers continually draw closer to God and become more Christlike.
10.

I BELIEVE...The Church has a Mission to seek and save all who are lost in sin. We believe 'the Church' is the Body of Christ and consists of the people who, throughout time, have accepted God's offer of redemption (regardless of religious denomination) through the sacrificial death of His son Jesus Christ.
11.

I BELIEVE...A Divinely Called and Scripturally Ordained Leadership Ministry Serves the Church. The Bible teaches that each of us under leadership must commit ourselves to reach others for Christ, to worship Him with other believers, and to build up or edify the body of believers–the Church.
12.

I BELIEVE...Divine Healing of the Sick is a Privilege for Christians Today and is provided for in Christ's atonement (His sacrificial death on the cross for our sins).
13.

I BELIEVE...in The Blessed Hope—When Jesus Raptures His Church Prior to His Return to Earth (the second coming). At this future moment in time all believers who have died will rise from their graves and will meet the Lord in the air, and Christians who are alive will be caught up with them, to be with the Lord forever.
14.

I BELIEVE...in The Millennial Reign of Christ when Jesus returns with His saints at His second coming and begins His benevolent rule over earth for 1,000 years. This millennial reign will bring the salvation of national Israel and the establishment of universal peace.
15.

I BELIEVE...A Final Judgment Will Take Place for those who have rejected Christ. They will be judged for their sin and consigned to eternal punishment in a punishing lake of fire.
16.

I BELIEVE...and look forward to the perfect New Heavens and a New Earth that Christ is preparing for all people, of all time, who have accepted Him. We will live and dwell with Him there forever following His millennial reign on Earth. 'And so shall we forever be with the Lord!'
PastorAnt

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yigaquu osaniyu adanvto adadoligi nigohilvi nasquv utloyasdi nihi

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Postby proycon » 2006-10-06, 16:39

That is indeed a list, very good :) Let it be an encouragement to other people to also post theirs! :)
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Postby Saaropean » 2006-10-06, 17:23

Let me try to state my beliefs:

- Humans rule the world because they happen to have both the brains and the anatomy to develop technologies. But the difference towards other animals (in brains and anatomy) is only gradual.
- The psyche is nothing metaphysical. It is the result of chemical and physical processes in the brain (and other parts of the body).
- Death is the end of life. Period.
- People believe in gods because they are psychologically weak and/or ignorant.
- People are what their genes (incl. instincts) and their experience (incl. education, culture, and current events) make them.
- Free will is a simple explanation for processes too complex to calculate.
- People should have equal opportunities, regardless of whatever features they might have (sex, race, age, looks, sexual orientation etc.)
- Different cultures create a different sense of how a person should behave (towards others). Peaceful coexistence of different cultures is not easy to achieve. It would be good if more people worked towards it.

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Postby CoBB » 2006-10-06, 17:55

pastorant wrote:Here's my list:

Which is not only your list, as I see thanks to our friend, Google. ;)

My point is that this is what I will never be able to comprehend, namely the act of fully accepting an external view without critical scrutiny and shaping it through my own personality. How did this happen in your case? For instance, how long did it take?

Ami nem csak a te listád, ahogy barátunknak, Google-nek köszönhetően látom. ;)

A lényeg, hogy ezt soha nem fogom megérteni, mármint egy külső nézet kritikus hozzáállás nélküli elfogadását, hogy a személyiségemen keresztül semmit sem változik. Hogy történt ez a te esetedben? Például mennyi ideig tartott?
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