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What religion are you? - Page 55 - UniLang

What religion are you?

This forum is the place to have more serious discussions about politics and religion, and your opinions thereof. Be courteous!

Moderators: Car, Luís, Johanna, Aurinĭa, Yserenhart, kibo, Global Moderators

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By default, you are automatically registered to post in this forum. However, users cannot post in the politics forum during the first week after registration. Users can also not make their very first post in the politics forum.

Religion?

Catholicism
22
12%
Protestantism
16
9%
Eastern Orthodox
10
5%
Judaism
5
3%
Sunni Islam
4
2%
Shiite Islam
1
1%
European Neo-Pagan
7
4%
Tribal Religion
1
1%
Hindu
3
2%
Buddhist
8
4%
Shinto
0
No votes
Atheism
62
34%
Agnostic
21
11%
Other (specify)
24
13%
Mormon
1
1%
Scientologist
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 185

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hreru
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Re: What religion are you?

Postby hreru » 2014-11-29, 19:06

IpseDixit wrote: What's hard to understand about that?

It's difficult to ask when "what's the connection?" was not good enough. :hmm: Hmm. How did Jesus die for our sins, where's the link between the crucifixion and our sins?; I can't see any in the story. Are the sins somehow reason for his death, how? What is meant by atoning?, were all the old sins eliminated or reduced in some way by his death? Or is it not only the sins commited untill then but even those which were yet to come are included?

I'd be glad if someone explained to me how it's meant. :)

IpseDixit wrote:Most of those things are market-related.

Well yes, everything is market-related if you decide to look at things from trade perspective. But why should you?

Ludwig Whitby wrote:Much better examples of other substitute-religions are simply other ideologies.
That would have been better as an example but even in this case I can't see any reason to consider them substitutes for religion (other then that religion preceded them).

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IpseDixit
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Re: What religion are you?

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-11-29, 19:56

It's difficult to ask when "what's the connection?" was not good enough. :hmm: Hmm. How did Jesus die for our sins, where's the link between the crucifixion and our sins?; I can't see any in the story. Are the sins somehow reason for his death, how? What is meant by atoning?, were all the old sins eliminated or reduced in some way by his death? Or is it not only the sins commited untill then but even those which were yet to come are included?

I'd be glad if someone explained to me how it's meant. :)


But you do understand the idea then, what is not clear to you is the reason, but the idea is clear. What I mean is that in my opinion "Everything" is too evanescent an idea. I can picture a man being crucified in my mind, but I cannot truly conceive "Everything" in my mind.

Well yes, everything is market-related if you decide to look at things from trade perspective. But why should you?


What I'm trying to say is that we are losing the ability to look at things through a different filter from that of the market. That's what I meant by hegemonic forma mentis.
Last edited by IpseDixit on 2014-11-30, 1:14, edited 1 time in total.

kevin
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Re: What religion are you?

Postby kevin » 2014-11-30, 0:33

hreru wrote:It's difficult to ask when "what's the connection?" was not good enough. :hmm: Hmm. How did Jesus die for our sins, where's the link between the crucifixion and our sins?; I can't see any in the story. Are the sins somehow reason for his death, how? What is meant by atoning?, were all the old sins eliminated or reduced in some way by his death? Or is it not only the sins commited untill then but even those which were yet to come are included?

I'd be glad if someone explained to me how it's meant. :)

Maybe this page (or one of the links there) is a bit more elaborate and helps you to understand how it's meant. It's certainly more complete than what I could write up ad hoc.

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Re: What religion are you?

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2014-11-30, 13:27

I got to know some more about pantheism. This is how I understood Spinoza:

Substance is everything that can exist on it's own. Substances have essential and accidental attributes. There can't be two substanses with the same essense. God is a substance with an infinite amount of essential attributes. Everything that exists is thus an attribute of God and nothing other than God can exist.

The attribute of extension is everything real that exist, concrete things that you can perceive with your senses. From it we get natural laws. The other important attribute is that of thought, out of which we get logic. Things and thoughts that we encounter in our everyday lives are simply modes of expression of these attributes, variations so to speak.

This really is a religion of science or a synthesis of religion and science. The only way to reach and understand God is through science, but at the same time we're well aware that we can never fully comprehend God, as we have a finite understanding and God has an infinite number of attributes and modes of existance. This seems to incorporate both the striving to understand God and harboring the mystical feeling of awe in front of an all-powerful, all-encompassing, unfathomable and infinite being.

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Hoogstwaarschijnlijk
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Re: What religion are you?

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2014-11-30, 16:39

Varislintu wrote:
Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:Last week I went to a (remonstrant/doopsgezinde/vrij hervormde) church because there was a 'pink service'. It was nice. It was the first protestant worship service I have been to and I think it suits me more than catholics. It's more text-focused, I like that.
Sometimes I wonder if I should become remonstrants.


Is remonstrant basically the Dutch word for protestant?

No, it's a separate church, protestant is mostly PKN (protestant church of the Netherlands; gereformeerd or hervormd) here, but remonstrants are way less strict. They were the first to marry homosexual couples for instance, and you can decide for yourself how to interpret the Bible and how you view God.

Oh, and the correct Wikipedia-article:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remonstrants
Interests: lots.
Motivation: little.

Corrections appreciated.

Dr. House
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Re: What religion are you?

Postby Dr. House » 2014-11-30, 21:28

Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:
Varislintu wrote:
Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:Last week I went to a (remonstrant/doopsgezinde/vrij hervormde) church because there was a 'pink service'. It was nice. It was the first protestant worship service I have been to and I think it suits me more than catholics. It's more text-focused, I like that.
Sometimes I wonder if I should become remonstrants.


Is remonstrant basically the Dutch word for protestant?

No, it's a separate church, protestant is mostly PKN (protestant church of the Netherlands; gereformeerd or hervormd) here, but remonstrants are way less strict. They were the first to marry homosexual couples for instance, and you can decide for yourself how to interpret the Bible and how you view God.

Oh, and the correct Wikipedia-article:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remonstrants


But can't you decide for yourself how to interpret God without being part of some religious group? It's like: "Let's go there, they have cookies!!" or "I wanna be an XYZ, because I'll be entitled to marry up to four women." Becoming a Muslim would actually give me an access to the cultures pertaining predominately to Islam. Sure I'd utter a few of the alhamdulillah's, but the real reason to accept Islam was my interest in these cultures and their people. So I understand one's quest for the truth and knowledge and also the need to be a part of a group, but I just feel that those two things should be separate.

So no I don't believe in God and so I guess that I won't ever be able to fully connect to the Iraqi or Afghan people. To be at their level.

I'm just curious. Do you want to be a Remonstrant, because you're a lesbian or because you're Dutch?
Language experimenter

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Hoogstwaarschijnlijk
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Re: What religion are you?

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2014-12-01, 19:08

Dr. House wrote:
Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:
Varislintu wrote:
Hoogstwaarschijnlijk wrote:Last week I went to a (remonstrant/doopsgezinde/vrij hervormde) church because there was a 'pink service'. It was nice. It was the first protestant worship service I have been to and I think it suits me more than catholics. It's more text-focused, I like that.
Sometimes I wonder if I should become remonstrants.


Is remonstrant basically the Dutch word for protestant?

No, it's a separate church, protestant is mostly PKN (protestant church of the Netherlands; gereformeerd or hervormd) here, but remonstrants are way less strict. They were the first to marry homosexual couples for instance, and you can decide for yourself how to interpret the Bible and how you view God.

Oh, and the correct Wikipedia-article:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remonstrants


But can't you decide for yourself how to interpret God without being part of some religious group? It's like: "Let's go there, they have cookies!!" or "I wanna be an XYZ, because I'll be entitled to marry up to four women." Becoming a Muslim would actually give me an access to the cultures pertaining predominately to Islam. Sure I'd utter a few of the alhamdulillah's, but the real reason to accept Islam was my interest in these cultures and their people. So I understand one's quest for the truth and knowledge and also the need to be a part of a group, but I just feel that those two things should be separate.

So no I don't believe in God and so I guess that I won't ever be able to fully connect to the Iraqi or Afghan people. To be at their level.

I'm just curious. Do you want to be a Remonstrant, because you're a lesbian or because you're Dutch?


You write: "But can't you decide for yourself how to interpret God without being part of some religious group? " and that's exactly the question I'm struggling with. I didn't say I was going to be remonstrants, I just said I sometimes wonder if I should/would. I feel like I never really belonged to any group and as I know the remonstrants would accept me to be part of their group I sometimes think that would be nice.

I don't really understand your last question. The reason I would want to be remonstrants, is that I would like to be part of a group that share the same view on religion as I have.
Interests: lots.
Motivation: little.

Corrections appreciated.

Dr. House
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Re: What religion are you?

Postby Dr. House » 2014-12-02, 11:19

I see. Well I asked the last question, because usually people choose a religion (those who have this option) based on what they like in them. That's why I was curious whether you liked the fact that these Remonstrants are open to gay-marriage or because of their proximity. It's nonsense for me to join the NOI as an example, because I'm white (thus not welcome there) and don't live in the United States.
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Hoogstwaarschijnlijk
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Re: What religion are you?

Postby Hoogstwaarschijnlijk » 2014-12-02, 18:41

Dr. House wrote:I see. Well I asked the last question, because usually people choose a religion (those who have this option) based on what they like in them. That's why I was curious whether you liked the fact that these Remonstrants are open to gay-marriage or because of their proximity. It's nonsense for me to join the NOI as an example, because I'm white (thus not welcome there) and don't live in the United States.

But that's kind of an obvious thing, isn't it? Of course I like the fact that remonstrants don't think I'm going to burn in hell. But more in general I like that fact that they are a tolerating religion.
Interests: lots.
Motivation: little.

Corrections appreciated.

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hreru
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Re: What religion are you?

Postby hreru » 2015-02-06, 11:57

IpseDixit wrote:But you do understand the idea then, what is not clear to you is the reason, but the idea is clear. What I mean is that in my opinion "Everything" is too evanescent an idea. I can picture a man being crucified in my mind, but I cannot truly conceive "Everything" in my mind.


(Now that all the pre-Christmas shopping and January sell-offs are over, I might go back to the topic. :mrgreen: ) No, I don’t understand the idea. Just like you, I can very well imagine a man being crucified, but that's as much as I can do. It's only a symbol, and I'm sure a symbol might be invented for "everything", too. What I don't understand is why the death was so important and how it changed anything and how the faith in the dead guy can help you any. If it was Jesus' life that was in question I would understand he was a role model for a proper life. But the death?, everyone dies. When I thought about it years ago I came to the conclusion it has to do something with the Trinity – that Jesus was the "Son" part of God, so it’s like God Himself (partially) tried to live a perfectly human life with all the pain and doubts and death. Out of love for the humankind he experienced it all from a mere mortal's perspective. That would really be something and I would see the sacrifice there, a sacrifice God has done for the people - He who is immortal and omniscient put these qualities aside for a while to live one human humble life.

I followed the link by kevin and it didn't tell me anything about this issue except "it had to be this way and no other way, better don't ask". The only explanation they offered was that the sin had to be payed with blood, and it was Jesus blood that finally payed it up. God sent Jesus to the Earth as a perfect sacrifice ... so it was actually God who sacrificed Jesus to Himself? And (at least according to this web which I don't like much I must say) my own little explanation must be completely wrong because God obviously doesn't need any new experience, maybe such a suggestion would be blasphemy, even. :)

What I mean by all that is that, to me, your examples of clear and precise ideas (Jesus is the Son of God dead on the Cross in order to atone for our sins; He is the truth and the way to follow in order to be awarded with eternal life) are almost incomprehesible to me while pantheism, without any detailed explanation and necessity to look for some more information, seems naturally acceptable. In other words, "everything" is fine to me. A clear and precise idea, let’s say. :P (But I’d still welcome an explanation of your example ideas, anyway.)


IpseDixit wrote:What I'm trying to say is that we are losing the ability to look at things through a different filter from that of the market. That's what I meant by hegemonic forma mentis.
I understood that. I just disagree. 8-)

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Re: What religion are you?

Postby Vlürch » 2015-02-06, 13:56

I'm not sure. I guess I'm some sort of pan-Abrahamic kathenotheist or something weird like that, even though I don't really care about religion at all most of the time. I mean, I believe in the Abrahamic God (whatever you wanna call Him) but I don't worship Him or any other gods that there are or may be. I occasionally pray to the Abrahamic God and othertimes to Satan, which I've heard sounds a bit odd to most people. It works for me, though, because like that saying goes, there can't be light without dark or dark without light. But yeah, I believe there are other gods and that they're equal to some people and that it's all a matter of perspective... obviously Satan is evil and is by no means a "god" by the usual definition, but he's a bit like a necessary evil rather than an evil for the sake of evil if that makes sense. That's how I see it, anyway.

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Re: What religion are you?

Postby Varislintu » 2015-02-06, 18:00

hreru wrote:What I don't understand is why the death was so important and how it changed anything and how the faith in the dead guy can help you any. If it was Jesus' life that was in question I would understand he was a role model for a proper life. But the death?, everyone dies. When I thought about it years ago I came to the conclusion it has to do something with the Trinity – that Jesus was the "Son" part of God, so it’s like God Himself (partially) tried to live a perfectly human life with all the pain and doubts and death. Out of love for the humankind he experienced it all from a mere mortal's perspective. That would really be something and I would see the sacrifice there, a sacrifice God has done for the people - He who is immortal and omniscient put these qualities aside for a while to live one human humble life.

I followed the link by kevin and it didn't tell me anything about this issue except "it had to be this way and no other way, better don't ask". The only explanation they offered was that the sin had to be payed with blood, and it was Jesus blood that finally payed it up. God sent Jesus to the Earth as a perfect sacrifice ... so it was actually God who sacrificed Jesus to Himself?


Yeah. Honestly, the details of the Jesus story make sense sort of in the way the TV-series Lost made sense. In other words, not much, because the Lost-makers didn't think it through ahead of time, but just started weaving together a Really Meaningful Story, not able to avoid painting themselves into plot corners. If Lost had become a religion, imagine people rationalising the events of it hundreds of years after all script writers are dead. :para: :lol: :cry: :P
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