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Evolution versus Creationism - Page 17 - UniLang

Evolution versus Creationism

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Evolution versus Creationism

I believe in Evolution
81
81%
I believe in Creationism
5
5%
I believe in Itelligent Design
4
4%
I believe in Theistic Evolutionism
10
10%
 
Total votes: 100

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IpseDixit
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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-10-16, 8:46

Massimiliano B wrote: Because if there is a limit, there is also space for something different from the simple immanent - or "material" - world.

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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-10-16, 8:53

Even if there are no limits - that is even if science can explain every aspect of our life and any kind of mechanism of our universe - there is still some space left for a metaphysical interpretation of the world, since science tells us what happens and in which way it happens, while metaphysic or religious view try to tell us "why". That's a different kind of thinking.
Last edited by Massimiliano B on 2014-10-16, 9:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-10-16, 8:55

IpseDixit wrote:
Massimiliano B wrote: Because if there is a limit, there is also space for something different from the simple immanent - or "material" - world.


That is my sentence. The following is your interpretation of my words:

IpseDixit wrote:
"There are some limits therefore a trascendental dimension exists".



It is different from mine.


Am I not free to think about metaphysical or religious ways of interpreting the reality? Is there a unique and official worldview which I have to adopt?

I repeat that even if there are no limits - that is even if science can explain every aspect of our life and any kind of mechanism of our universe - there is still some space left for a metaphysical interpretation of the world, since science tells us what happens and in which way it happens, while metaphysic or religious view try to tell us "why". That's a different kind of thinking.
Last edited by Massimiliano B on 2014-10-16, 9:00, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-10-16, 9:08

Am I not free to say that you're making shit up?

Moreover you haven't explained your interpretation of your sentence.

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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-10-16, 9:19

voron wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Massimiliano B wrote:I want just to say that evolutionary theory has some limits. It says how moral sentiments have evolved, but also how immoral sentiments did evolve - in other words, how good inclinations and bad inclinations have arisen. But the reason why one prefers the 'good' inclinations and hates the 'bad' inclinations is out of the reach of the evolutionary theory.

Actually they're not. Just look at all the work which has been done reconciling evolutionary theory with the existence of altruism (which appears to exist not only in humans but in many animal species as well). When you keep in mind that evolution works over populations rather than individuals, then there are some quite rational explanations for why people behave in ways that we consider "moral".

How morality, altruism and other traits of human nature could have evolved in accordance with the evolutionary theory is the subject of evolutionary psychology.


Evolutionary psychology is not a science in the strict sense and it has generated substantial controversy and criticism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_ ... psychology



IpseDixit wrote:Am I not free to say that you're making shit up?


And am I not free to say that what you say (I'm making shit up) is just a claim without any explanation? It is not a scientific assertion. You have no evidence that I'm making shit up.

Moreover, I am not the only one who likes to find metaphysical or religious interpretations of the world.

IpseDixit wrote:Moreover you haven't explained your interpretation of your sentence.


My sentence means that I am free to spend my time trying to find "why" I am here, and not only "that" I am here.
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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-10-16, 9:39

Massimiliano B wrote:You have no evidence that I'm making shit up.


Of course I do, all that you've written in this thread so far is enough evidence.

Moreover, I am not the only one who likes to find metaphysical or religious interpretations of the world.


And this fact should give it more credibility in some way?

IMassimiliano B wrote:My sentence means that I am free to spend my time trying to find "why" I am here, and not only "that" I am here.


Oh, I see, so

Because if there is a limit, there is also space for something different from the simple immanent - or "material" - world.


actually means:

I am free to spend my time trying to find "why" I am here, and not only "that" I am here


Makes an awful lot of sense! Why haven't I thought of that?!

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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-10-16, 9:44

IpseDixit wrote:
Oh, I see, so

Because if there is a limit, there is also space for something different from the simple immanent - or "material" - world.


actually means:

I am free to spend my time trying to find "why" I am here, and not only "that" I am here


Makes an awful lot of sense! Why haven't I thought of that?!


I don't know.

Why do you say "awful"? Is it awful to freely think about why I am here?
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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-10-16, 9:48


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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-10-16, 10:55

It may have no sense to you.

I already know the meaning of "awful lot". I was playing with words :)
Last edited by Massimiliano B on 2014-10-16, 11:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-10-16, 11:25

linguoboy wrote:
Massimiliano B wrote:Evolutionary theory has been used in order to discredit any kind of religious worldview.

No, only those religious worldviews which claim that life was created and directed by some specific supernatural entity.

Massimiliano B wrote:Should not the evolutionary theory give an account of any kind of organism we see - including not only the physical structure, but even of the higher capacities of human intellect?

This is exactly the question which gave rise to memetics.

Massimiliano B wrote:If the answer is "no, it should not", there's then some space for different explications, which can even include religious or metaphysical ones.

Sure--but there's a huge difference between saying "there's room for metaphysical explanations" and there's room for my specific metaphysical interpretation. Evolution provides no evidence at all for the Christian worldview, and it disproves particular Christian worldviews which rely on interpreting literally the creation stories given in Genesis.


There is still a place for those Christian worldviews which don't rely on interpreting literally the creation stories give in Genesis and for other religious and metaphysical vorldviews.
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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby Saim » 2014-10-16, 11:31

Massimiliano B wrote:Am I not free to think about metaphysical or religious ways of interpreting the reality?


 (en) Of course you are, who's tried to stop you? By the same token, we're absolutely free to think those ways of interpreting reality are rubbish.

 (it) Chiaro che sì, chi ha provato di fermarti? Dello stesso modo, noi siamo absolutamente liberi di pensare che questi modi d'interpretare la realtà sono ciancia.
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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-10-16, 11:57

Have I ever said you cannot think that those ways of interpreting reality are rubbish?

However, I do not think evolution is rubbish.
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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby Massimiliano B » 2014-10-16, 12:23

Saim wrote:
Massimiliano B wrote:Am I not free to think about metaphysical or religious ways of interpreting the reality?


 (en)]it[/ag] Chiaro Certo che puoi, chi ha provato di a fermarti? Dello Allo stesso modo, noi siamo absolutamente assolutamente liberi di pensare che questi modi d'interpretare la realtà sono ciancia [better: ciance]
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Re: Evolution versus Creationism

Postby hreru » 2014-10-16, 13:26

Massimiliano B wrote:Am I not free to think about metaphysical or religious ways of interpreting the reality? Is there a unique and official worldview which I have to adopt?

I repeat that even if there are no limits - that is even if science can explain every aspect of our life and any kind of mechanism of our universe - there is still some space left for a metaphysical interpretation of the world, since science tells us what happens and in which way it happens, while metaphysic or religious view try to tell us "why". That's a different kind of thinking.

So this is why you keep on highlighting the fact that evolutionary theory is limited? To defend your worldview?, I don’t think anyone’s taking it away from you. :nope: You know, I think it’s obvious it’s limited, both by the topic it describes and by the scientific approach. And I somehow think it’s clear to people who talk to you here – I haven’t mentioned anyone protesting. So I couldn’t have grasped why to tell it over and over. :)

But it seems to me as if you and the others talked about some different evolutionary theories. :P

The theory itself is a part of biology, not philosophy/religion/politics. Its goal is to explain biodiversity as an outcome of natural mechanisms; not to deny God’s existence. It’s not any atheistic pseudoreligion.

How the theory is then interpreted and incorporated into anyone’s worldview as it serves their purposes is a different issue. That’s where the philosophy and so on (perhaps even some atheistic pseudoreligion :) ) comes in, and I think that’s what you talk about when you say „evolutionary theory“? So perhaps that’s the reson you insisted on the limits? But if so, you're mixing two different things together...


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