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Riia - UniLang

Riia

Moderator: hashi

nulle
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Location: Rīga
Country: LV Latvia (Latvija)

Riia

Postby nulle » 2012-08-15, 15:18

After a recent trip to Estonia (nice country, especially roads :D) I am just wondering...
Why the name of Rīga - capital of Latvia is written/pronounced like that - Riia ?
It looks weird, because Estonian apparently has 'g' letter/sound - like in 'Valga', for example.

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ainurakne
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Re: Riia

Postby ainurakne » 2012-08-15, 15:56

nulle wrote:Why the name of Rīga - capital of Latvia is written/pronounced like that - Riia ?
Actually, I have no idea.
But usually the longer a foreign name has been present in Estonian, the more it has changed (or the more it has been 'estonified'). I guess, at some point it was easier for someone to say it without g or someone just heard it differently and so it went.
Anyways, short illative form Riiga makes me think that at some point there may have been a g there in nominative or genitive case also.
nulle wrote:After a recent trip to Estonia (nice country, especially roads :D) I am just wondering...
Didn't you reach to Tallinn? :lol:
Or was it sarcasm? :para:
Eesti keel (et) native, English (en) I can manage, Suomi (fi) trying to learn, Pусский (ru)&Deutsch (de) unfortunately, slowly fading away

corcaighist
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Location: Tallinn, Estonia
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Re: Riia

Postby corcaighist » 2012-08-15, 20:29

No. He is actually be serious. I'm not long back from a road trip where we passed through Valga/Valka and on to Rūjiena/Ruhja and there ARE NO ROADS IN NORTHERN LATVIA. The only tarmac was in towns and villages, outside settlement it's all just dirt. It's....different.

I guess it's like ainurakene said. It's easier to say Riia than Riga. I could wonder why you guys say Vīlande for Viljandi. I saw that on a roadsign on my way back towards the Estonian border.

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ainurakne
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Re: Riia

Postby ainurakne » 2012-08-15, 22:46

OK, that I didn't know... :shock:
I guess it has been too long since I last visited Latvia. Although I remember a very nice highway which went from the border straight to Rīga. In my memories it's still better than anything I had seen in Estonia back then.
But I guess I probably didn't get anywhere too far from Rīga then. Or maybe I'm just so used to Estonian numerous dirt and gravel roads of 'smaller places' that I didn't even notice that. :roll:
Although now that I think about it, I don't remember seeing that kind roads very often anymore - I guess I'm still living in my childhood memories...
Eesti keel (et) native, English (en) I can manage, Suomi (fi) trying to learn, Pусский (ru)&Deutsch (de) unfortunately, slowly fading away

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Loiks
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Re: Riia

Postby Loiks » 2012-11-24, 14:02

Sry I didn't take this issue earlier but I think it's gradation (astmevaheldus). As you probably know all Estonian placenames are in genitive (Tallinn is the exception, but in 1930's there were proposals to rename it Tallinna). It's like you always add silent küla (village) or linn (town) to the actual name. So for Riia linn (city of Riga), the nominative would be *Riig (which doesn't exist), like Estonian word liig: liia. Btw in Finnish it's nom. Riika; gen. Riian (although the Finns are kind of forgetting it and you can hear also Riika: Riikan). Here's the explanation.

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ainurakne
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Re: Riia

Postby ainurakne » 2012-11-25, 0:18

Hmm, I haven't thought about it like that before, but it really does make sense.
I guess this partitive form Riiat actually isn't the correct partitive of this word then (liig-liia-liiga : Riig-Riia-Riiga).

Loiks wrote:So for Riia linn (city of Riga), the nominative would be *Riig (which doesn't exist), like Estonian word liig: liia. Btw in Finnish it's nom. Riika; gen. Riian (although the Finns are kind of forgetting it and you can hear also Riika: Riikan).
By the way, if you look at the word liig in liiga palju, liiga pikk, etc (in Finnish: liian paljon & liian pitkä) - then is it also a mutated form of genitive or does Estonian actually require it to be partitive in this context?
I, for example, never pronounce it overlong in this context (although partitive case would require it to be overlong (kolmandas vältes)).
Eesti keel (et) native, English (en) I can manage, Suomi (fi) trying to learn, Pусский (ru)&Deutsch (de) unfortunately, slowly fading away

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Loiks
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Re: Riia

Postby Loiks » 2012-12-25, 7:52

Again, I was away, but: in short illative: Riiga, the g appears again. Ma sõidan Riiga.

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Loiks
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Re: Riia

Postby Loiks » 2012-12-25, 8:07

So *Riig: Riia: Riiga, but those Estonian placenames in genitive have become names in their own: like Järve: Järve: Järvet and Riia: Riia: Riiat or Nõmme: Nõmme: Nõmmet. But illative: Järvele, Riiga and Nõmmele. (Järve and Nõmme take actually allative).


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