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Come pronunci X? - UniLang

Come pronunci X?

Moderator: IpseDixit

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IpseDixit
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Come pronunci X?

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-08-15, 22:19

Sulla scia del thread aperto da Youngfun ho deciso d'aprire questo thread qui :)

Ho già alcune domande. Come pronunciate voi:

1) crogiolo
2) nocciolo
3) godere
4) peggiora
5) centro
6) scervellare
7) coppia

Per quanto riguarda me:

1) ['krɔʤolo], bè in realtà con la gorgia toscana lo si pronuncia ['krɔʒolo]
2) ['nɔʧ:olo]
3) [go'dere] anche se qui in Toscana è abbastanza diffusa anche la variante ['gɔdere]
4) [pe'ʤ:ora], molti toscani però dicono ['pɛʤ:ora]
5) ['ʧɛntro]
6) [ʃerve'l:are]
7) ['kɔp:ja]

Se non vi va di usare l'IPA usate gli accentini ;)

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Levivah » 2014-08-16, 21:24

IpseDixit wrote:
1) crogiolo
2) nocciolo


Meno male che esiste l'IPA... i primi due continuavo a leggerli come [kro'dʒɔlo] e [no'tʃ:ɔlo]

Comunque:
1) crogiolo ['kʁɔdʒolo]
2) nocciolo ['nɔtʃ:olo]
3) godere [go'deʁe]
4) peggiora [pe'dʒ:oʁa]
5) centro ['tʃentʁo]
6) scervellare [stʃeʁvel:aʁe]
7) coppia ['kɔp:ja]
Last edited by Levivah on 2014-08-17, 10:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Youngfun » 2014-08-17, 9:57

La mia pronuncia non dovrebbe discostarsi molto da quella di IpseDixit.

1) [kɾo'ʤɔlo], beh in realtà con l'accento romano [kro'ʤ:ɔlo]
2) ['nɔʧ:olo]
3) [go'deɾe]
4) [pe'ʤ:oɾa]
5) ['ʧentɾo] - non sono sicuro se la n sia alveolare o velare...
6) [ʃerve'l:aɾe]
7) ['kɔp:ja]

Ho marcato tutte le mie /r/ come monovibranti [ɾ]. In realtà ho la r leggermente moscia e non sono sicuro di come la pronuncio. Forse come una monovibrante...

Per quanto riguarda crogiolo, questa parola la conosco nella forma crogiuolo e l'ho sempre pronunciata con l'accento sulla seconda sillaba, quindi [kro'ʤwɔlo].

Levivah wrote:5) centro ['centʁo]

Intendevi ['tʃentʁo]? :wink:

6) scervellare [stʃeʁvel:aʁe]

Dove è l'accento? Trovo questa tua pronuncia "più logica". :D

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Levivah » 2014-08-17, 10:20

Youngfun wrote: Per quanto riguarda crogiolo, questa parola la conosco nella forma crogiuolo e l'ho sempre pronunciata con l'accento sulla seconda sillaba, quindi [kro'ʤwɔlo].


Idem, crògiolo qua l'ho inteso come prima persona di crogiolarsi.

Intendevi ['tʃentʁo]? :wink:

Ooopsie :oops: Sistemato :D

6) scervellare [stʃeʁve'l:aʁe]

Dove è l'accento? Trovo questa tua pronuncia "più logica". :D[/quote]

Sulla a. Non l'avevo mai sentito pronunciato con [ʃ].
A nyelv az egyetlen, amit rosszul is érdemes tudni.

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-08-17, 22:03

Neanche io son sicuro di che enne sia quella di centro...

Comunque ragazzi, da ora in poi scriviamo solo e soltanto la nostra pronuncia effettiva.

Anche per me l'accento di scervellare è sulla a, ho sbagliato a scrivere, ora correggo

E comunque con crogiolo intendevo l'oggetto. Si può scrivere anche senza u.

Davvero pronunci la e di centro chiusa, youngfun? Pensavo fosse roba da polentoni, no da romani :-)

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Levivah » 2014-08-18, 13:49

IpseDixit wrote:Neanche io son sicuro di che enne sia quella di centro...


La mia decisamente non è velare... al massimo postalveolare.

E comunque con crogiolo intendevo l'oggetto.


Allora io dico [kʁo'dʒɔlo].
A nyelv az egyetlen, amit rosszul is érdemes tudni.

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Itikar » 2014-08-18, 22:53

Dunque vediamo:
1)[kɾo'dʒɔ:lo], invece "io crogiolo" ['krɔ:dʒolo]
2)['nɔʧʧolo], l'albero invece [noʧ'ʧɔ:lo]
3)[go'de:ɾe]
4)[pedʒ'dʒo:ɾa]
5)['ʧɛn:tɾo] in mezzo ad altri settentrionali anche ['ʧen:tɾo]
6)[sʧeɾvel'la:ɾe]
7)['kɔppja] ma di rado anche ['koppja]
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto!
All corrections are welcome and appreciated.

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-08-20, 16:09

Altre parole:

8) mero
9) resa
10) lena
11) netto
12) zelo
13) mesto
14) maestro

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Itikar » 2014-08-20, 16:34

8)['mɛ:ɾo]
9)['re:sa] tra settentrionali ['re:za]
10)['lɛ:na] tra settentrionali ['le:na]
11)['netto]
12)['dzɛ:lo] tra settentrionali ['dze:lo]
13)['mesto] sia l'aggettivo, sia il verbo "io mesto"
14)[ma'ɛstɾo]
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto!
All corrections are welcome and appreciated.

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-08-20, 17:26

Scusa ma [re:za] non è in teoria la pronuncia standard?

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Itikar » 2014-08-20, 18:28

Allora anche [le:na] se per quello è la pronuncia piú normativa. :)
Ho indicato per prime le forme che uso spontaneamente e ho messo dopo quelle che uso saltuariamente o in contesti particolari, a prescindere dalla loro correttezza.
Tuttavia ['re:za] è standard solo nella pronuncia mediatica, la pronuncia tradizionale è ['re:sa].
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto!
All corrections are welcome and appreciated.

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby IpseDixit » 2014-08-20, 21:14

Io ignoravo completamente un simbolo a parte per la monovibrante :whistle: , mi sa che dovrò affinare le mie trascrizioni..

---

E come pronunciate il suffisso 15) -zione?

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Itikar » 2014-08-20, 22:21

IpseDixit wrote:E come pronunciate il suffisso 15) -zione?
[tsjo:ne]
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto!
All corrections are welcome and appreciated.

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Youngfun » 2014-08-21, 11:23

IpseDixit wrote:Davvero pronunci la e di centro chiusa, youngfun? Pensavo fosse roba da polentoni, no da romani :-)

Sì. :) Una delle tante differenze tra Roma e Firenze. Mi pare di aver letto da qualche parte che la e chiusa è prevalente in Italia Centrale esclusa la Toscana.
________________

8)['mɛ:ɾo]
9)['re:za] ma spontaneamente anche ['ɾesa]*
10)['lɛ:na] vocale incerta, vocale aperta
11)['netto]
12)['dzɛ:lo]
13)['mɛsto]
14)[ma'estɾo]

*la mia r vibra no solo debolmente, forse è una monovibrante anche in sillaba accentata. Mi sono accorto di pronunciare la maggioranza delle s sonore, ma nel parlato spontaneo qualche s diventa sorda.

IpseDixit wrote:E come pronunciate il suffisso 15) -zione?

[-ts:jone] sempre raddoppiato

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Itikar » 2014-08-21, 13:53

Youngfun wrote:[-ts:jone] sempre raddoppiato
Anche in "finzione" e "minzione"? O_o
Fletto i muscoli e sono nel vuoto!
All corrections are welcome and appreciated.

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Levivah » 2014-08-22, 13:39

8) mero ['me:ʁo]
9) resa ['ʁe:za]
10) lena ['le:na]
11) netto ['nɛt:o]
12) zelo ['dze:lo]
13) mesto ['mɛsto]
14) maestro [ma'ɛstʁo]
15) -zione ['tsjo:ne]

Mi ha sempre affascinato la differenza tra pronuncia "ariosa" (cioè della provincia/delle valli) e quella cittadina/di pianura nel piacentino. Mio padre, che è di collina, direbbe ['net:o], ['mes:o] ['met:ili] e [kava'l:et:o]. Io e mia madre, che siamo entrambe cresciute in pianura, abbiamo tutte le -e aperte.
A nyelv az egyetlen, amit rosszul is érdemes tudni.

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Youngfun
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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Youngfun » 2014-08-22, 15:00

Itikar wrote:
Youngfun wrote:[-ts:jone] sempre raddoppiato
Anche in "finzione" e "minzione"? O_o

Mi ero dimenticato che può capitare anche dopo consonante. :lol:

Levivah wrote:['net:o], ['mes:o] ['met:ili] e [kava'l:et:o]

Tutte con la e chiusa anche per me.

Solo io dico maestro con la e chiusa? :shock:

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Koko » 2014-09-06, 4:29

Youngfun wrote:Solo io dico maestro con la e chiusa? :shock:

No, la pronuncio come te! Non so perché, ma tante le mie "e" son [e] a meno che sono scritte è (ovviamente /'ɛ/). Per esempio, solo (dalla lista) netto e forse mesto pronuncerei con una e aperta.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby abc_conlang_123 » 2014-09-12, 13:54

Con pronuncia bolognese io dico :
1) kroˈdʒɔːlo
2) ˈnɔttʃolo
3) goˈdeːre
4) peˈddʒoːra
5) ˈtʃeːŋtro
6) s̺tʃerveˈlaːre
7) ˈkɔppja
7) ˈmeːro
9) ˈreːz̺a
10) ˈleːna
11) ˈnetto
12) ˈðeːlo
13) ˈmɛs̺s̺to
14) maˈɛs̺s̺tro
15) ˈθθjoːne

Si notino la n velare davanti a qualsiasi consonante, le s apicali, le tipicissime fricative dentali ed il fenomeno "vocale breve + sillaba chiusa o doppie, vocale lunga + scempie" ; solo in "scervellare" si nota il frequente indebolimento delle doppie preaccentuali.
Native :  (it)  (egl) Fluent :  (en) A2 :  (es)  (la) Curious about :  (fi)  (ja)

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Youngfun
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Re: Come pronunci X?

Postby Youngfun » 2014-09-12, 16:01

abc_conlang_123 wrote:"vocale breve + sillaba chiusa o doppie, vocale lunga + scempie"

Che io sappia, questo fenomeno si riscontra anche in italiano standard...


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