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HUNGARIAN EXAM SUPPORT! :) - UniLang

HUNGARIAN EXAM SUPPORT! :)

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rachel90
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HUNGARIAN EXAM SUPPORT! :)

Postby rachel90 » 2012-12-29, 17:17

Sziasztok! :)

I haven't been active on Unilang for waaay too long, so I've decided to start posting again. :mrgreen:

I chose Hungarian as optional exam (level A2) at university and I have to study it all by myself since I'm about to graduate and can't go back to my university to follow the course (I passed the A1 course last year scoring 30/30).

The book we use isn't that great, I mean, it's good but it's all in Hungarian and they don't explain grammar rules, they just give examples. So it occurs that I may be confused about some grammar issues. That's why I've created this post. I'd like to post here all my doubts and questions and hope native speakers would like to help me. :D

So, my first question is about the imperative.
What I understand from the book is that there are two ways of building the 2nd person singular form of the imperative, which are -j and -d, While the 2nd person plural form is always -játok/-jetek.
My question is: when do I use -j and when -d?
I'll copy here the examples that my book reports:
Paolo magyarul tanul. > Paolo, tanulj magyarul!
Ő most a nyelvtant tanulja. > Tanuld meg a nyelvtant!
Bekapcsolom a rádiót. > Kapcsold be a rádiót. ; Kapcsoljátok be a rádiót!

Is it because of the two conjugations? In that case, shouldn't the 2nd person plural also change?

Sorry for the long post. :oops:
Köszönöm szépen! :mrgreen:
Pimeässä metsässä voit kuulla lauluni...

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Fluently spoken: English, French, Dutch, German
Basic knowledge of: Hungarian

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gothwolf
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Re: HUNGARIAN EXAM SUPPORT! :)

Postby gothwolf » 2013-01-02, 15:05

It seems like in your head there is a big mess. Of course the two conjugations have different endings. I'll try to make everything more clear.

indefinite conjugation
2p. sg. : -j(ál) / -j(él)*
2p. pl. : -jatok / -jetek

definite conjugation
2p. sg. : -(ja)d / -(je)d*
2p. pl. : -játok / -jétek

*The letters in the brackets can be omitted, for example:
indefinite: kérj (or: kérjél), kapcsolj be (kapcsoljál be)
definite: kérd azt (or: kérjed) azt, kapcsold be (kapcsoljad be).

I think the short forms are more common.

But you should be careful because the imperative marker -j- is often assimilated:
1. In verb stems ending in a sibilant (s, sz, z, dz), the subjunctive -j assimilates to the sibilant: keres + -j- → keress(él) / keres(se)d, keressetek / keressétek
2. In verb stems ending in -st or -szt, the stem-final -t is lost and the subjunctive -j- assimilates to the sibilant: ébreszt + -j- → ébressz(él) / ébresszed ~ ébreszd, ébresszetek / ébresszétek
3. In verb stems ending in a long vowel + t or a consonant + t (except as defined in the previous paragraph), the subjunctive -j- becomes -s- : tanít+ -j- → taníts(ál) / taníts(a)d , tanítsatok / tanítsátok
4. 4 In verb stems ending in a short vowel + t, both the stem-final -t and the subjunctive -j- become s: mutat + -j- → mutass(ál) / mutas(sa)d, mutassatok / mutassátok.

Világos? :P

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rachel90
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Re: HUNGARIAN EXAM SUPPORT! :)

Postby rachel90 » 2013-01-03, 22:45

gothwolf wrote:Világos? :P


Igen, most világos, köszönöm! :D

Yeah, I'd need a more detailed grammar and someone to pratice with... But well, at least I hope I'll be able to clear all my doubts here! :)

I'm a little confused about the use of the imperative in other persons than the 2nd one though... I will report this short dialogue as an example:
-Éva, gyere, menjünk moziba!
-Jó! Menjünk! De jöjjön Ági is! Ági, gyere te is!
-Én is menjek? De én most vacsorát főzök. Menjetek csak ti!
-Ó, gyertek már, lányok! Mindjárt nyolc ora...

I understand this dialogue, I'm just a little confused about how I should translate "De jöjjön Ági is!" and "Én is menjek?" here... Would it be like "But Ági must/should come, too" and "Do I have to/should I come?" ?

I also have a question on another topic but I'll save it for the next post... :whistle:
Pimeässä metsässä voit kuulla lauluni...

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gothwolf
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Re: HUNGARIAN EXAM SUPPORT! :)

Postby gothwolf » 2013-01-04, 22:19

I'll quote a short passage from Hungarian: an Essential Grammar

The subjunctive is used in questions in the first person singular and plural, to express ‘should I/we . . .?’ or ‘shall I/we . . .?’ In this usage, the coverb is not removed from the verb.
Megmondjam nekik az igazat? - Should I tell them the truth?
Táncoljunk? - Shall we dance?
The subjunctive is also used in indirect questions; the meaning is similar to the previous usage, expressing ‘should/shall one . . .?’
Megkérdezték, hogy felírják-e az új szavakat. - They asked whether they should write down the new words.
In subordinate clauses:
1. If the desire or will of the subject of the main clause is pressed upon the subject of the subordinate clause, the subordinate clause will contain the subjunctive verb. The verb in the main clause may be one of will: akar ‘want’, kér ‘request’, ‘ask’, javasol ‘suggest’, ajánl ‘recommend’; or it may be any verb of communication through which a wish is conveyed: mond ‘say’, ír ‘write’, üzen ‘send the message’, etc.
Azt írták, hogy jöjjek haza. - They wrote me that I should come home.
2. The subjunctive is used to express ‘in order to’ or ‘so that’; this is often combined with a main clause introduced by azért ‘for that reason’.
Sokkal többet kell gyakorolnom, hogy igazán jól tudjak zongorázni. - I have to practice much more in order to play the piano really well.
Arra törekszik, hogy új állást kapjon. - He’s trying to get a new job.
3. Subordinate clauses following impersonal main clauses are also in the subjunctive.
Szükséges, hogy előre telefonáljak? - Is it necessary that I call in advance?
4. The subjunctive is used in subordinate clauses where the main clause expresses a lack, absence or inability (to fulfill a goal).
Nincs kivel kártyázzak. - I have nobody to play cards with.

In your case:
Menjünk! - Let's go! Shall we go?
De jöjjön Ági is! - Let Ági also come (I insist that Ági come too)
Én is menjek? - Should I also come?

If you have more questions, feel free to ask! :)


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