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Earth vs. Erdve (EN, LT) - UniLang

Earth vs. Erdve (EN, LT)

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Lietuvis
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Earth vs. Erdve (EN, LT)

Postby Lietuvis » 2013-02-26, 15:24

Does anyone know whether the English word "Earth" has some ties with the Lithuanian word "Erdve" (space), or even with "Ertme" (cavity).
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Eginhard
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Re: Earth vs. Erdve (EN, LT)

Postby Eginhard » 2013-02-27, 19:15

Apparently yes.
According to O. Hoffmann (in German: http://www.bookprep.com/read/uc1.b4068728#sPage=102) "erdvė" is related to other Lithuanian words like "retas" or "ardyti/irti" which all stem from a Indoeuropean root "er" and also "ere" (to separate). From there we get Proto-Germanic "erþō" (http://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Appendix:Proto-Germanic/erþō) and thus also English "earth" or German "Erde".
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Lietuvis
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Re: Earth vs. Erdve (EN, LT)

Postby Lietuvis » 2013-02-27, 22:59

Very interesting. Also AR- and even -ART (Lith.) and perhaps even ARTI (close, near) although I may be exaggerating.

ARIA = they are tilling
ARIMAS = tilled soil
ARTOJAS = tiller (so is the root AR or ART?)
ARTI = to till, to plough
ARKLAS = a plough
ARTI = close, nearby (although doubtful on this one)
URVAS = a cave (probably unrelated to EARTH)
ARDAU = I disassemble (believable)
IRSTA = falls apart (hard to believe this one is related to EARTH)
RETAS = rare (hard to believe this one is related to EARTH)

Where online can I read about comparable linguistics between Lithuanian and the other IE languages?

Sorry, I am not a professional and not a linguist, just curious. :-)
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nesos
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Re: Earth vs. Erdve (EN, LT)

Postby nesos » 2013-02-28, 8:08

ARTOJAS = tiller (so is the root AR or ART?) - -toj- is a suffix, like in moky-tojas, kovo-tojas etc

ARDAU = I disassemble (believable)
IRSTA = falls apart (hard to believe this one is related to EARTH) - why not? A shift of vowel is rather common in Lithuanian roots:
ardyti/irti, dangus/dengti/dingti, lenkti/linkti, lyti/lieti/laistyti

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Eginhard
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Re: Earth vs. Erdve (EN, LT)

Postby Eginhard » 2013-03-01, 10:00

Yes, ARDAU and RETAS (more obvious with the meaning "thin/sparse") are of that origin as well. It's easier not to think of them being related to EARTH, but all originating from the root meaning SEPARATE with the PIE root being ER-. In the first link he talks about how this meaning shift could have occured: From "separation" to more concrete "surrounding/enclosure/separating space (e.g. between settlements)" to "earth".

He mentions the root AR- as in ARTI (to plough, also Latin ARARE) as well, but says in this case the vowel change from ER- to AR- is rather unlikely, but not impossible.

I don't know of any online resources about this topic, I found this essay, which coincidentally discusses exactly your question, referenced in a Lithuanian Etymological Dictionary (in German).
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nesos
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Re: Earth vs. Erdve (EN, LT)

Postby nesos » 2013-03-01, 12:28

Eginhard wrote:Yes, ARDAU and RETAS (more obvious with the meaning "thin/sparse") are of that origin as well. It's easier not to think of them being related to EARTH, but all originating from the root meaning SEPARATE with the PIE root being ER-. In the first link he talks about how this meaning shift could have occured: From "separation" to more concrete "surrounding/enclosure/separating space (e.g. between settlements)" to "earth".

He mentions the root AR- as in ARTI (to plough, also Latin ARARE) as well, but says in this case the vowel change from ER- to AR- is rather unlikely, but not impossible.

I don't know of any online resources about this topic, I found this essay, which coincidentally discusses exactly your question, referenced in a Lithuanian Etymological Dictionary (in German).

So ardyti is related to earth, while arti isn't? IMO ardyti is causative form of arti and there are one vowel change already present: arti/irti.

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Eginhard
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Re: Earth vs. Erdve (EN, LT)

Postby Eginhard » 2013-03-02, 0:35

Yeah, from today's meaning that seems a bit strange and the words look indeed very similar. But they apparently come from two different PIE roots with different meanings:

1. to plough (PIE: *h₂érye-, Latin: arō, Old Church Slavonic: орати) which became ARTI (and also ORAS)
2. to separate (PIE: *er, Proto-Germanic: erþō) which became ARDYTI, but also had a meaning shift towards ERDVE/EARTH
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