[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions::$regionsdata
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Trying to get property of non-object
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions::$regionsdata
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Trying to get property of non-object
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions::$regionsdata
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Trying to get property of non-object
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions::$regionsdata
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Trying to get property of non-object
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions::$regionsdata
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Trying to get property of non-object
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 5312: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3925)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 5312: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3925)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 5312: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3925)
друг - UniLang

друг

User avatar
asgarnian123
Posts: 24
Joined: 2011-12-27, 12:18
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)

друг

Postby asgarnian123 » 2012-05-25, 23:08

Lately I've been learning the declension of Ukrainian nouns, and so far I understand most of it, but I can't figure out why the plural of друг is друзі. It seems like a hard-stem second declension noun to me, so I would've expected it to be други. Is it just irregular?
Native: [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]en-US[/flag] Decent: [flag]no-nb[/flag] [flag]la[/flag] Beginner: [flag]no-nn[/flag] [flag]fo[/flag] [flag]sv[/flag]
Überneuling: [flag]cy[/flag] [flag]it[/flag] [flag]pt-PT[/flag] [flag]da[/flag] [flag]nl[/flag] [flag]de[/flag] [flag]is[/flag]
Dabbling: [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]fi[/flag] [flag]ar-arb[/flag] [flag]ka[/flag] [flag]ca[/flag] [flag]ga[/flag] [flag]es-ES[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]gd[/flag] [flag]yi[/flag] [flag]non[/flag]
Future (?): [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]sk[/flag] [flag]sq[/flag] [flag]ar-EG[/flag] [flag]el[/flag] [flag]he[/flag] [flag]kk[/flag] [flag]kl[/flag] [flag]mk[/flag] [flag]zu[/flag] [flag]art-sjn[/flag] [flag]mi[/flag] [flag]en_old[/flag] [flag]mt[/flag] [flag]os[/flag] [flag]hi[/flag] [flag]sw[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]uk[/flag] [flag]vi[/flag] [flag]ur[/flag] [flag]kw[/flag] [flag]zh.Hans[/flag] [flag]cs[/flag] [flag]ain[/flag] [flag]nv[/flag] [flag]eo[/flag] [flag]eu[/flag] [flag]fa[/flag] [flag]ko[/flag] [flag]haw[/flag] [flag]lv[/flag] [flag]hu[/flag] [flag]nah[/flag] [flag]ro[/flag] [flag]wuu.Hans[/flag] [flag]art-qya[/flag] [flag]sa[/flag] [flag]lt[/flag] [flag]yua[/flag] [flag]cop[/flag] [flag]smi-sme[/flag] [flag]et[/flag] [flag]gv[/flag] [flag]br[/flag] [flag]frr[/flag] [flag]fy[/flag] [flag]nds[/flag]

User avatar
TheStrayCat
Posts: 1614
Joined: 2010-12-23, 11:49
Real Name: Max
Gender: male
Location: Evanston/Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: друг

Postby TheStrayCat » 2012-05-26, 10:21

Hello!

Yes, it is a kind of exception. Earlier, the actual form друзі, according to this reference was regarded as archaic, and in classical Ukrainian literature dated around the XIX century there are examples of using the form други:

"Други й недруги, гнівнії та сердиті, і нас, і намір наш, і діло те кленуть" - Ivan Franko, late XIX century. However, here it may also be attributed to the harmony with the antonym недруги, which retained its regular form.
"Ви будете мені пильнувати якийсь час хати — не як ренкодайні, ані як державці,— бо моя субстанція не в земельних добрах, — але як довірені мої други" - Yu. Rudnytsky.
"Не робіть нічого, брати мої, други мої милі, поки я з вами не побачусь" - T. Shevchenko, XIX century.

Afterwards it evidently was replaced by the irregular plural. In modern Ukrainian the word други is considered outdated and not orthografically correct.

This change also reflected on its usage with numerals. 2, 3 and 4, which are usually followed by a plural nominative noun form, can conjugate only as collective numerals: двоє/троє/четверо друзів, but not *два друзі or *два друга.

User avatar
asgarnian123
Posts: 24
Joined: 2011-12-27, 12:18
Gender: male
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: друг

Postby asgarnian123 » 2012-05-26, 15:09

Thank you! Good to know it's just irregular, I was afraid I'd have to learn another palatalization or something. I've just remembered one more thing I need help with, though.

What are the rules for у and і at the beginning of a word becoming в and й? I thought it was whenever the previous word ends with a vowel, but in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights there are phrases like "вільними і рівними у своїй" which I would've expected to be "вільними й рівними в своїй".
Native: [flag]fr[/flag] [flag]en-US[/flag] Decent: [flag]no-nb[/flag] [flag]la[/flag] Beginner: [flag]no-nn[/flag] [flag]fo[/flag] [flag]sv[/flag]
Überneuling: [flag]cy[/flag] [flag]it[/flag] [flag]pt-PT[/flag] [flag]da[/flag] [flag]nl[/flag] [flag]de[/flag] [flag]is[/flag]
Dabbling: [flag]ja[/flag] [flag]fi[/flag] [flag]ar-arb[/flag] [flag]ka[/flag] [flag]ca[/flag] [flag]ga[/flag] [flag]es-ES[/flag] [flag]pl[/flag] [flag]gd[/flag] [flag]yi[/flag] [flag]non[/flag]
Future (?): [flag]ru[/flag] [flag]sk[/flag] [flag]sq[/flag] [flag]ar-EG[/flag] [flag]el[/flag] [flag]he[/flag] [flag]kk[/flag] [flag]kl[/flag] [flag]mk[/flag] [flag]zu[/flag] [flag]art-sjn[/flag] [flag]mi[/flag] [flag]en_old[/flag] [flag]mt[/flag] [flag]os[/flag] [flag]hi[/flag] [flag]sw[/flag] [flag]tr[/flag] [flag]uk[/flag] [flag]vi[/flag] [flag]ur[/flag] [flag]kw[/flag] [flag]zh.Hans[/flag] [flag]cs[/flag] [flag]ain[/flag] [flag]nv[/flag] [flag]eo[/flag] [flag]eu[/flag] [flag]fa[/flag] [flag]ko[/flag] [flag]haw[/flag] [flag]lv[/flag] [flag]hu[/flag] [flag]nah[/flag] [flag]ro[/flag] [flag]wuu.Hans[/flag] [flag]art-qya[/flag] [flag]sa[/flag] [flag]lt[/flag] [flag]yua[/flag] [flag]cop[/flag] [flag]smi-sme[/flag] [flag]et[/flag] [flag]gv[/flag] [flag]br[/flag] [flag]frr[/flag] [flag]fy[/flag] [flag]nds[/flag]

User avatar
TheStrayCat
Posts: 1614
Joined: 2010-12-23, 11:49
Real Name: Max
Gender: male
Location: Evanston/Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: друг

Postby TheStrayCat » 2012-05-26, 20:24

asgarnian123 wrote:Thank you! Good to know it's just irregular, I was afraid I'd have to learn another palatalization or something. I've just remembered one more thing I need help with, though.

What are the rules for у and і at the beginning of a word becoming в and й? I thought it was whenever the previous word ends with a vowel, but in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights there are phrases like "вільними і рівними у своїй" which I would've expected to be "вільними й рівними в своїй".


The orthography reference has chapters about the use of І-Й and У-В: http://www.madslinger.com/mova/pravopys ... html#toc21, § 11-12. As I was taught at school, generally it's correct to replace one letter with the other so as to avoid groups of several vowels and consonants in a row, and a two-consonant cluster is preferred over two vowels. The cited reference says that regardless of the ending of the previous word before word-initial в, ф, and before clusters льв, св, тв, хв and so on it's appropriate to use у. Therefore the last preposition is used correctly. As for the first thing, the rules really prefer й, but I'm more inclined to put та instead, as it would eliminate both issues. The translation itself was unofficial (according to http://zakon3.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/995_015) and done in 1948, which wasn't the best period for the development of Ukrainian, so there's no surprise about minor mistakes.

Also, do not expect natives to observe these regulations carefully, because the complete rule is difficult to remember as it is, whereas notions of harmony are objective only to a certain extent.

User avatar
Oleksij
Posts: 4757
Joined: 2005-06-28, 16:46
Real Name: Олексій Мірошниченко
Gender: male
Location: Thessaloniki
Country: GR Greece (Ελλάς)
Contact:

Re: друг

Postby Oleksij » 2012-05-27, 22:23

TheStrayCat wrote:Also, do not expect natives to observe these regulations carefully, because the complete rule is difficult to remember as it is, whereas notions of harmony are objective only to a certain extent.

That has always been my personal issue with the vowel harmonisation rules - I believe the use of і/й and у/в should be left entirely to the discretion of the speaker. Of course, in practice, they are.
Moja ulica murem podzielona - świeci neonami prawa strona, lewa strona cała wygaszona, zza zasłony obserwuję obie strony.
My Youtube Channel
Last.fm

User avatar
RCA
Posts: 518
Joined: 2006-11-08, 16:35
Gender: male
Location: Харків (Kharkiv)
Country: UA Ukraine (Україна)

Re: друг

Postby RCA » 2012-05-29, 10:54

Those aren't rules but rather guidelines, which one is only recommended to follow.
'A vita è 'n'affacciata 'e fenesta.

Sekisei
Posts: 51
Joined: 2012-08-26, 23:51
Real Name: Andrii
Gender: male
Location: Kyiv
Country: UA Ukraine (Україна)
Contact:

Re: друг

Postby Sekisei » 2012-08-27, 0:12

Yes, it is irregular.

FeelMyHeat
Posts: 4
Joined: 2014-03-31, 19:02
Real Name: Ihor
Gender: male
Location: Kyiv
Country: UA Ukraine (Україна)

Re: друг

Postby FeelMyHeat » 2014-03-31, 19:26

lol, guys, it's not irregular. Thare are several rules in ukrainian language of substitution some sounds. Here г-ж-з rule. Look here: друГ-друЖити-друЗі (friend-be friends-friends)
Last edited by FeelMyHeat on 2014-03-31, 20:18, edited 1 time in total.

FeelMyHeat
Posts: 4
Joined: 2014-03-31, 19:02
Real Name: Ihor
Gender: male
Location: Kyiv
Country: UA Ukraine (Україна)

Re: друг

Postby FeelMyHeat » 2014-03-31, 19:27

lol, guys, it's not irregular. Thare are several rules in ukrainian language of substitution some sounds. Here г-ж-з rule. Look here: друГ-друЖити-друЗі (friend-be friends-friends)

User avatar
TheStrayCat
Posts: 1614
Joined: 2010-12-23, 11:49
Real Name: Max
Gender: male
Location: Evanston/Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)
Contact:

Re: друг

Postby TheStrayCat » 2014-03-31, 20:08

The alternation (чергування) is regular, but the plural form isn't. Most of г-final nouns (ворог, потяг, батіг, стяг...) form their plurals by simply adding -и to the end. In this sense друг is irregular.


Return to “Ukrainian (Українська)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron