[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions::$regionsdata
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Trying to get property of non-object
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions::$regionsdata
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Trying to get property of non-object
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions::$regionsdata
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 424: Trying to get property of non-object
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file [ROOT]/ext/unilang/languages/includes/lang_functions.php on line 403: Undefined property: unilang/languages/includes/lang_data::$country_names_en
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 5312: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3925)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 5312: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3925)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 5312: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3925)
Bulgaria and Macedonia - UniLang

Bulgaria and Macedonia

Moderator: gothwolf

Andrejj
Posts: 4
Joined: 2008-03-14, 11:48
Real Name: Johann
Gender: male
Location: Berlin
Country: IS Iceland (Ísland)

Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Andrejj » 2008-03-14, 20:58

Delete this post
Last edited by Andrejj on 2016-02-26, 14:58, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Timpul
Posts: 119
Joined: 2007-02-04, 11:49
Gender: male
Country: PL Poland (Polska)

Postby Timpul » 2008-03-15, 13:52

between these two peoples.

What do you mean? ;D:D:D:D

User avatar
Arcane
Posts: 183
Joined: 2007-02-20, 18:19
Gender: female
Country: DK Denmark (Danmark)

Postby Arcane » 2008-03-17, 19:52

Hi Andrejj, we discussed this topic here. You're free to ask if you have any specific questions :)

User avatar
0stsee
Posts: 2493
Joined: 2006-10-12, 23:27
Real Name: MarK
Gender: male
Country: DE Germany (Deutschland)

Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby 0stsee » 2008-03-18, 23:12

Andrejj wrote:Good day,

Yesterday my father told me, that bulgarian and macedonian languages are very similars. I immediately took two textes, compared them and saw, that it is true.

So, I would like to ask some information on any relations between these two peoples.

Thank you.

Hi!

I guess the relation between Bulgarian and Macedonian is similar to Indonesian and Malaysian, which could be considered dialects of one language if they hadn't developed in two different countries with quite different influences.
Ini tandatanganku.

User avatar
gothwolf
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2409
Joined: 2006-04-15, 6:33
Real Name: Християн Бонев
Gender: male
Location: София / Ямбол
Country: BG Bulgaria (България)
Contact:

Postby gothwolf » 2008-03-19, 20:18

Bulgarians usually say that Macedonian is a dialect form of Bulgarian.

lothy
Posts: 15
Joined: 2008-04-15, 13:12
Real Name: lothlorien
Gender: female
Location: Paris
Country: FR France (France)

Postby lothy » 2008-04-15, 13:35

me i found these languages very beautiful (especially macedonian)

where could i found links and ressources for learning it?

JamesS
Posts: 15
Joined: 2008-04-13, 18:56
Real Name: James Scanlan
Gender: male
Location: GB
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby JamesS » 2008-04-15, 14:01

I know I can understand bits of Macedonian through my (fractured) Bulgarian. And for some reason, I really love Macedonian music!
Someone I knew who used to teach in Bulgaria said that the issue of Bulgarian/Macedonian languages and identity is quite a sensitive issue, particularly in Bulgaria.

lothy
Posts: 15
Joined: 2008-04-15, 13:12
Real Name: lothlorien
Gender: female
Location: Paris
Country: FR France (France)

Postby lothy » 2008-04-16, 11:00

yea there is political issue about macedonia (thats mainly due of territorial claims) bulgaria is claiming macedonian r bulgarian and greek r saying they r greek..
i think they r distinct ppl.;but more similar to bulgars..about their folk, customs

for me the language sound very serb but ican be wron,g

about macedonian link there is this 1:

http://www.geocities.com/macedonian_lng/
Last edited by lothy on 2012-03-12, 0:35, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Arcane
Posts: 183
Joined: 2007-02-20, 18:19
Gender: female
Country: DK Denmark (Danmark)

Postby Arcane » 2008-04-16, 19:56

When I have time I should write something like a short story of the issue because it's pretty complicated and a lot of people ask about it. I have to warn you, however, that on the Balkans people still live in the past (to be precise, in the 19th century) and I don't know to what extent you'll be able to understand :)

I mention that 'cause even nowadays the level of understanding between the West and the East is on a pretty low level. That's why Karamanlis and Bush speak totally different languages and won't be able to understand each other no matter what happens.

Andrejj
Posts: 4
Joined: 2008-03-14, 11:48
Real Name: Johann
Gender: male
Location: Berlin
Country: IS Iceland (Ísland)

Postby Andrejj » 2008-04-17, 6:20

ok
Last edited by Andrejj on 2016-03-10, 10:07, edited 2 times in total.

JamesS
Posts: 15
Joined: 2008-04-13, 18:56
Real Name: James Scanlan
Gender: male
Location: GB
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Postby JamesS » 2008-04-17, 10:03

Andrejj wrote:Actually while creating this topic, I was looking for some information about relationships between ordinary Macedonians and ordinary Bulgarians. (I knew about proximity of their languages.) For example, do these people love each other or quite the contrary? Thank you.


I'm no expert on the Balkans, but from what I've been told by people who have lived there, there is a certain level of dislike (maybe even stronger than that!) between Bulgaria and Macedonia. Interestingly enough, Bulgaria was among the first countries to recognise an independent Macedonia, but from then on, things have just deteriorated. A lot of it apparently stems from Macedonia 'ignoring' Bulgaria's role in their history. Again, I'm no expert, so I'm just passing on what I've been told. But it's something I would love to study in more detail.

User avatar
gothwolf
Language Forum Moderator
Posts: 2409
Joined: 2006-04-15, 6:33
Real Name: Християн Бонев
Gender: male
Location: София / Ямбол
Country: BG Bulgaria (България)
Contact:

Postby gothwolf » 2008-04-21, 18:51

Well, I think Macedonians do not like us (they don't like Serbians, Greeks and Albanians, too) because they have been conquered many times. Personally I don't mind them. In fact I'm pro the Macedonian language because any nation deserves to have own language and culture although they're a great mixture of three or four Balkan nations...

lothy
Posts: 15
Joined: 2008-04-15, 13:12
Real Name: lothlorien
Gender: female
Location: Paris
Country: FR France (France)

Postby lothy » 2008-04-24, 21:34

yes
Last edited by lothy on 2012-03-12, 0:37, edited 1 time in total.

lothy
Posts: 15
Joined: 2008-04-15, 13:12
Real Name: lothlorien
Gender: female
Location: Paris
Country: FR France (France)

Postby lothy » 2008-04-24, 22:38

macedonian are one of the most ancient ppl in these area and they r linked to ancient macedonian
although they're a great mixture of three or four Balkan nations..

"Certain scholars like Russian Alexander F. Rittih have stated that Macedonians did not intermix with any of the Turkic tribes that raided eastern Balkan regions such as Moesia Inferior, Wallachia and Dobrudja (modern Bulgaria and Romania) from the tenth century onwards. Because of the nature of their geographic location, Macedonians only mixed with the indegenous Balkaners that lived in the Region of Macedonia, and not later invaders. This view, held prominently in Macedonia, makes the ancestry of Macedonians unique compared to their eastern neighbours."

tech_noir
Posts: 3
Joined: 2010-03-07, 11:34
Country: BG Bulgaria (България)

Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby tech_noir » 2010-03-07, 11:58

Generally for a Bulgarian "Macedonian" sounds like Welsh for English, Catalan for Spanish or Bavarian for German (I guess).
This place used to be the heart of Bulgarian Empire in medieval times, etc.

Most of Bulgarians do recognize the country (as long its citizens wish), but don't the language and the identity. Generally the Balkans have a long and turbolent history. Braniwashing and social engineering (along with displacements and sorely genocides at a times) are quite traditional and is tricky for a foreigner to understand the processes and therefore situation.
There could be tension form the FYROManian side which is quite necessary in order to craft some identity (EU warns them to quit the "speech of hate" in the media each time). Currently it's a political outsider which managed to get into trouble with all of its neighbors as their version of history, identity, etc. don't match neighbors', macedonians are often getting insulted by things that sound to others natural as "the earth is spherical", etc.

From a Bulgarian side... no there is no real hate or something it would be like hating your kid for calling you "ba**ard" or something - you get angry but can not hate.

Ludwig Whitby
Posts: 3541
Joined: 2009-03-30, 13:44
Gender: male
Location: Belgrade
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2010-03-07, 12:28

The whole thing about Macedonia is complicated. The best solution was to 'create' a new ethnicity and a new country, the Macedonians, because if that hadn't been done, there would have probably been a lot more tension today (Maybe the Second Balkan war all over!)
And the language issue is even more complicated.
Western Bulgarian (Shop) dialect, Prizren-Timok (Torlak) dialect of Serbian and Macedonian are all very similar. You could call all of them Bulgarian dialects with good arguments to back it up, or even claim that they Serbian dialects, you would have some arguments for that too.
(We are notorious for making every people Serbs. :D Bosniaks = Muslim Serbs, Croats = Catholic Serbs, so Macedonians and Shops could be Bulgarized Serbs.*)

And I don't understand why Bulgarians don't accept the Macedonian language? Our government accepts Croatian and Bosnian as different languages even though all three standard languages are based on the same dialect!

And on another notion, Macedonia has a cultural significance to Serbs as well, with Skopje being the place of the coronation of our first Emperor. It was also his capital.

*That claim isn't to be taken literally. :D

User avatar
IvoCarog
Posts: 63
Joined: 2010-02-22, 20:53
Gender: male
Country: GB United Kingdom (United Kingdom)

Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby IvoCarog » 2010-03-07, 12:32

tech_noir wrote:Generally for a Bulgarian "Macedonian" sounds like Welsh for English, Catalan for Spanish or Bavarian for German (I guess).


just a note - Welsh and English are completely different languages, the first is a Celtic language and the second is a Germanic one...so the relationship is not the same to that between Bulgarian and Macedonian, apart from that I agree with your post...

Rumpetroll wrote:And I don't understand why Bulgarians don't accept the Macedonian language? Our government accepts Croatian and Bosnian as different languages even though all three standard languages are based on the same dialect!


Well...I guess it has to do with the fact that Croatians and Bosnians are and have always been (although I'm not very sure about the Bosnians) a different people. Whereas the Macedonians, not very long ago (historically speaking) were predominantly Bulgarian and now, all of a sudden, they claim that they've been a separate people for hundreds (and thousands) of years. So, I guess, from Bulgarian point of view recognising Macedonian as a separate language, would be like recognising them as a separate people as well...not to mention that in situations like this one (I mean the language one) it is always difficult to say who's right and who's wrong - take for example the language spoken in Germany and Austria, is it the same language (German) or can we talk about 2 different languages?!
native: Image
fluent: Image
well enough: Image
learning/used to learn: Image Image Image Image Image Image

tech_noir
Posts: 3
Joined: 2010-03-07, 11:34
Country: BG Bulgaria (България)

Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby tech_noir » 2010-03-07, 13:24

IvoCarog wrote:
tech_noir wrote:Generally for a Bulgarian "Macedonian" sounds like Welsh for English, Catalan for Spanish or Bavarian for German (I guess).


just a note - Welsh and English are completely different languages, the first is a Celtic language and the second is a Germanic one...so the relationship is not the same to that between Bulgarian and Macedonian, apart from that I agree with your post...

Sorry, my fault.
Maybe Greece-Cyprus would be a good example too (for ethnography, language and culture at least).

Croatians also claim they speak Croatian like may other people think that it's more like a dialect of serbo-croatian.

A century ago the ethnography of the region looked like this http://www.promacedonia.org/gall/maps/index.html and "macedonians" had been referenced as "people living in the macedonian geographical area" (name comes from the roman province). In 1945 however the communist had some plan for creating a massive slavic speaking federation to dominate the Balkans (made it just to what we knew as Yougoslavia). As the different folks had old issues between each other, they tried to dissolve their identities first by splitting them into smaller and easier to melt ones. Partly successful with creating Macedonia, failed with Dobruja and Tracia.

What's insulting the other Balkan countries is that they chose to craft some "ancient identity" and link somehow the name of the country with the ancient Macedons instead of just declaring "OK, we'd like to be on our own". As there is no actual link they have to patchwork "borrowing" from here and there (yes, this actually runs on mainstream TV). For example Samuel is being presented as a medieval Macedonian King (being declared by himself and documents of that time as a Bulgarian by mistake), who fought and tragically lost from Basil "the Macedon" - Bulgarslayer. Respectively Bulgarians are nasty thiefs.

Ludwig Whitby
Posts: 3541
Joined: 2009-03-30, 13:44
Gender: male
Location: Belgrade
Country: RS Serbia (Србија)

Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2010-03-07, 14:43

Yes, you have a point.
I have also read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonism#Macedonism their 'Contemporary ideas'.
It is clearly pseudo-history, and I doubt that there are a lot of Macedonians who believe it.

User avatar
paruha
Posts: 944
Joined: 2003-12-31, 11:38
Gender: female
Location: Стара Загора
Country: BG Bulgaria (България)

Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby paruha » 2010-03-08, 19:53

Rumpetroll wrote:And I don't understand why Bulgarians don't accept the Macedonian language? Our government accepts Croatian and Bosnian as different languages even though all three standard languages are based on the same dialect!

Government and people are sort of different things. :)
Our government also accepts it.
Защо да харчим пари, които нямаме, за да купим неща, които не са ни нужни, така че да впечатлим хора, които не харесваме?

I don't even remember what standard deviation is.
BezierCurve: It's some important part of sadistics, I believe.


Return to “Bulgarian (Български)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron