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Bulgaria and Macedonia - Page 4 - UniLang

Bulgaria and Macedonia

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kalata23
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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby kalata23 » 2011-01-16, 19:53

Guys, the topic is " Bulgaria and Macedonia " not " The Bulgarian dialects ". I mean to argue about dialects which is closer to official Bulgarian languange and etc makes no sense...
Offtopic: About the argue. Sofia is a mixure of dialects. Because a big percent of the Sofia's population are people from other cities or villages, so that's why on holidays in sofia is so silent.
Азь Буки Веди Глаголи Добро Есть Живети Дзело Земле Иже Како Люде Мыслите Наш Он Покой Ръци Слово Твърдо

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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby TeneReef » 2011-01-18, 4:44

Rumpetroll wrote:It's strange for me to see that people in the capital and the biggest city in the country don't speak the standard dialect.


Well, the same thing happens in Croatia, in Zagreb most people don't use the standard dialect (stokavski) informally but the local dialect (kajkavski) which is more similar to Slovenian.
That's why I think Bulgarian and Macedonian are like Croatian and Slovenian, dialectal Bulgarian sounds like Macedonian, and dialectal Croatian like Slovenian.

In Italy, Roman dialect is still different than the official Tuscan, in Berlin German they say ich liebe dir instead of ich liebe dich, in Spain they say the best Spanish is spoken in León (Salamanca) and not in Madrid, in Portuguese it's Setúbal and not Lisbon, and so on, in England it's Oxford and Cambridge and not London...And in Switzerland, Bernese Swiss couldn't be more distant from Hochdeutsch. ;)

Capital city has nothing to due with ''the most standard accent''
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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2011-01-18, 11:45

TeneReef wrote:
Rumpetroll wrote:It's strange for me to see that people in the capital and the biggest city in the country don't speak the standard dialect.


Well, the same thing happens in Croatia, in Zagreb most people don't use the standard dialect (stokavski) informally but the local dialect (kajkavski) which is more similar to Slovenian.


You keep saying that in Zagreb, they speak kajkavian. I'll have to take your word for it, but judging by what I've heard people in Zagreb do use kaj instead of što, yet I wouldn't say that that is the same kajkavian they speak in Zagorje, i.e. the kajkavian you could hear in Gruntovčani.

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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby gothwolf » 2011-01-18, 21:04

TeneReef wrote:Capital city has nothing to due with ''the most standard accent''


:yep:

Rumpetroll wrote:I'll have to take your word for it, but judging by what I've heard people in Zagreb do use kaj instead of što, yet I wouldn't say that that is the same kajkavian they speak in Zagorje, i.e. the kajkavian you could hear in Gruntovčani.


Now I get where the names of these dialects come from. Kaj-kavian (kaj - the word for "what" in Slovenian) and Što-kavski ("što" - the word for "what" in Croatian)

Anyway... We should stop discuss that kind of stuff in the "Bulgaria and Macedonia" thread.

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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Rémy LeBeau » 2011-02-05, 0:01

My faux-pas over in the BCS forum has gotten me interested in Macedonian. From what I've read in passing, Bulgarian basically gets rid of a lot of the cases and noun declensions present in other Slavic languages, but makes up for that by having a very complex verbal system. Is this trade-off between cases and the verbal system largely the same in standard Macedonian?

Next, how similar is Macedonian in vocabulary to Serbo-Croatian? Is it more similar in vocabulary to Serbo-Croatian or to Russian (as Bulgarian seems to be)?
ਧਰਤੀ 'ਤੇ ਲਹੂ ਵੱਸਿਆ । 
ਕ਼ਬਰਾਂ ਪਈਆਂ ਚੋਣ
 । ਪ੍ਰੀਤ ਦੀਆਂ ਸ਼ਹਿਜ਼ਾਦੀਆਂ 
। ਅੱਜ ਵਿੱਚ ਮਜ਼ਾਰਾਂ ਰੋਣ ।
dhartī 'tē lahū vassiā | qabarāṅ paīāṅ ćoṇ | prīt dīāṅ śahizādīāṅ | ajj vićć mazārāṅ roṇ |


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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Svet » 2011-02-05, 2:26

Macedonian functions in a lot of aspects like Bulgarian - it omits nouns, has gender and person-oriented verbs, its vocabulary is to its biggest part old Bulgarian, which means - it is neither close to the Serbo-Croatian, nor to the Russian one. It is obviously close to the Slavonic, as this was the old South-Slavic language, based on old Bulgarian. On the other hand, Macedonian uses a lot of Serbian words, just like German uses a lot of English words nowadays.
It is much softer, and generally causes nostalgia, when Bulgarians are listening to it, because a lot of the archaic words are still there. It's a beautiful... dialect. Very beautiful one.
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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2011-02-05, 8:39

Macedonian doesn't have much more tenses than Serbian. They just happen to still use some tenses that are fallen out of use in spoken Serbian, yet are still retained in the standard language. The vocabulary is very similar to Serbian, and yes, Macedonian sounds a bit archaic and dialectal to us too.


Svet wrote:Macedonian functions in a lot of aspects like Bulgarian - it omits nouns, has gender and person-oriented verbs, ....

What do you mean by this?

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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Svet » 2011-02-05, 11:32

For example "I found her" is usually translated as "наjдов jа", instead of "jас jа наjдов". In English you can say "found it", but there are cases in which the personal pronoun cannot be omitted, without depriving the sentence of sense, whereas in Macedonian this is possible.
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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2011-02-05, 11:51

Svet wrote:For example "I found her" is usually translated as "наjдов jа", instead of "jас jа наjдов". In English you can say "found it", but there are cases in which the personal pronoun cannot be omitted, without depriving the sentence of sense, whereas in Macedonian this is possible.

Yes, Macedonian is a pro-drop language, same as all other Slavic languages, and all other Balkanic languages. Same as most human languages as a matter of fact.

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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Rémy LeBeau » 2011-02-05, 11:57

Rumpetroll wrote:Macedonian doesn't have much more tenses than Serbian. They just happen to still use some tenses that are fallen out of use in spoken Serbian, yet are still retained in the standard language. The vocabulary is very similar to Serbian, and yes, Macedonian sounds a bit archaic and dialectal to us too.


Svet wrote:Macedonian functions in a lot of aspects like Bulgarian - it omits nouns, has gender and person-oriented verbs, ....

What do you mean by this?


What about the number of noun declensions and cases in Macedonian as compared to Serbo-Croatian? More? Less? Roughly the same?
ਧਰਤੀ 'ਤੇ ਲਹੂ ਵੱਸਿਆ । 
ਕ਼ਬਰਾਂ ਪਈਆਂ ਚੋਣ
 । ਪ੍ਰੀਤ ਦੀਆਂ ਸ਼ਹਿਜ਼ਾਦੀਆਂ 
। ਅੱਜ ਵਿੱਚ ਮਜ਼ਾਰਾਂ ਰੋਣ ।
dhartī 'tē lahū vassiā | qabarāṅ paīāṅ ćoṇ | prīt dīāṅ śahizādīāṅ | ajj vićć mazārāṅ roṇ |


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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2011-02-05, 12:23

Less. Macedonian nouns have only nominative and vocative with an occasional accusative case, while pronouns also have the dative case. Pluralization is pretty regular. Adjective and adverb comparation is completely regular in Macedonian, unlike Serbian where it is a big pain in the ass. The stress is fixed and vowels don't have distinctive length or pitch accent, again unlike Serbian. All in all, Macedonian has a simpler and less irregular grammar.

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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Svet » 2011-02-05, 12:35

Also nouns don't really change in the different cases, it is basically the pronouns that actually indicate the case. Funny enough, in Macedonian you usually use the object in its noun and pronoun form within the same sentence.
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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby kalata23 » 2011-02-08, 17:06

Everything is Macedonian...... =_='
There was a Bulgarian tv show where asked some Macedonians who is Tzar Samoil. And they said that he is Macedonian tzar.
Азь Буки Веди Глаголи Добро Есть Живети Дзело Земле Иже Како Люде Мыслите Наш Он Покой Ръци Слово Твърдо

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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2011-02-08, 17:15

kalata23 wrote:Everything is Macedonian...... =_='
There was a Bulgarian tv show where asked some Macedonians who is Tzar Samoil. And they said that he is Macedonian tzar.

What the hell are you talking about? Nobody here said that everything is Macedonian. You should stop being so prejudicious.

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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby kalata23 » 2011-02-08, 22:49

I say, most Macedonians pretend for everything to be their own.
Азь Буки Веди Глаголи Добро Есть Живети Дзело Земле Иже Како Люде Мыслите Наш Он Покой Ръци Слово Твърдо

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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Svet » 2011-02-08, 22:51

Samuil was Macedonian, just as I am Sofian and you're Starozagorian, it is the different understanding of the term "Macedonian" that leads to problems. Oh, by the way, Samuil was also half-Armenian (he must've been HOT!). :mrgreen:
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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby kalata23 » 2011-02-08, 23:04

Svet wrote:Samuil was Macedonian, just as I am Sofian and you're Starozagorian, it is the different understanding of the term "Macedonian" that leads to problems. Oh, by the way, Samuil was also half-Armenian (he must've been HOT!). :mrgreen:

Where did you read that?
Азь Буки Веди Глаголи Добро Есть Живети Дзело Земле Иже Како Люде Мыслите Наш Он Покой Ръци Слово Твърдо

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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Svet » 2011-02-08, 23:13

His mother's name was Hripsime (translated as Ripsimia into Bulgarian) - daughter of King Ashot II Bagratuni. She named all of her fours sons with biblical names - a tradition in Armenia (something that is not so often done in our lands) - David, Moses, Aaron and Samuel. One of Samuel's daughters was given an Armenian name as well - after her grandmother, and another one of his daughters - I think it was Theodora, was wed with an Armenian as well. So, one of our greatest kings is half-Armenian, another one - Gavriel-Radomir a quarter. But then again, we have had a lot of half-Greek monarchs, half-Armenian is tons better. And it is also hotter.
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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby Ludwig Whitby » 2011-02-08, 23:25

kalata23 wrote:I say, most Macedonians pretend for everything to be their own.

Once again, you're being prejudicious. Most Arabs are terrorists, most Serbs and Croats are genocidal bastards, and Germans Nazis. Most Russians are communists etc...

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Re: Bulgaria and Macedonia

Postby kalata23 » 2011-02-09, 6:29

Svet wrote:His mother's name was Hripsime (translated as Ripsimia into Bulgarian) - daughter of King Ashot II Bagratuni. She named all of her fours sons with biblical names - a tradition in Armenia (something that is not so often done in our lands) - David, Moses, Aaron and Samuel. One of Samuel's daughters was given an Armenian name as well - after her grandmother, and another one of his daughters - I think it was Theodora, was wed with an Armenian as well. So, one of our greatest kings is half-Armenian, another one - Gavriel-Radomir a quarter. But then again, we have had a lot of half-Greek monarchs, half-Armenian is tons better. And it is also hotter.

I didn't understand what makes prove that he's Macedonian.
Oh, and there is no word like terrorist. It's all imagination.
Азь Буки Веди Глаголи Добро Есть Живети Дзело Земле Иже Како Люде Мыслите Наш Он Покой Ръци Слово Твърдо


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