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Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno - UniLang

Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

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Koko
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Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby Koko » 2015-03-20, 6:26

I've gotten enamoured by this conlang I started this week almost as much as I've been by Isyan, so here's a thread on it. I plan to post a majority in Italian 8-) , for practice in realtà, but if there's objections, I guess I'll use it only in short posts alongside English.
Sono dimenticato innamorato di questa lingua artificiale che ho iniziato questa settimana quasi come sono stato dell'isiano, quindi ecco un thread su Celdovin. Intendo a postare una maggioranza nell'italiano 8-) , per esercizio in realtà, però se ci sono delle obiezioni, suppongo di solamente usarlo insieme l'inglese nelle risposte brevi.

Comunque, inizio!

L'alfabeta
Ji abieche

A [a, aː, ɑː] (it's not really decided as to when you pronounce it long, this is the case with all vowels)
B [b]
C (come in italiano e in rumeno e anche come [ç])
D [d]
E [e, ə]
F [f]
G (come in italiano e in rumeno)
H [h~x]
I [i, j]
J [ʒ]
L [l, ʎ]
M [m~ɱ]
N [n~ŋ, ɲ]
O [o, ɔ]
P [p]
Q [ħ]
R [r̠]
S [s, ʃ]
T [t]
U [u, ʌ]
V [v, b̪]
Z [(d)z, ʒ]

Le lettere terminali c, g, l, n, s, e z si cambiano [tʃ, dʒ, ʎ, ɲ, ʃ, ʒ] dopo la fonema /i/ (<i>). Per esempio, il nome della lingua è pronunciato /tʃeldoˈviɲ/ visto che è scritto <Celdovin>. La h (nel celdovigno "hacca") dopo queste lettere significa che tengono le loro pronunciazioni regolari. Per esempio, suilh (suitcase, bag, purse) si pronuncia /sui̯l/, invece di /suʎ/ che significa stella. (è il caso per tutte le lettere sopra)

In termine <ic> può anche essere pronunciato come /iç/ (sì, è fonemica). Guarda "dic" /diç/ (non), e poi "decia" /ˈdetʃa/ (niente, nessuno). (beh, non è un buon esempio, ma spero che lo capiate)

/s/ and /z/ before /j/ are palatized when unstressed. Eziu /ˈeʒju/ (site, location) VS /eˈzju/ (child)

Diphthongs

Every vowel (except i) + i [Vi̯]
Every vowel (except u and i) + u [Vu̯]
<eo> /ʌu̯/

I Numeri

(0-10)
sif, alc, gia, eor /ˈeor/, jeca, bundo /ˈbundɔ/, ziou /ʒjou̯/, ahc /axk/, qopti, chime, ibre

-cen is like the -teen in fourteen and is applicable to all numbers shown.

Grazie in anticipo per tutte le correzioni! Se gli italiani qui possono consigliarmi un nome migliore nelľitaliano per la lingua artificiale, non esitate a dirmelo ^^
Last edited by Koko on 2015-03-20, 22:11, edited 2 times in total.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby Koko » 2015-03-20, 9:05

(giving a shot at tables. Never used 'em before)

I Pronomi

Ecco i pronomi. Le forme obliche dei pronomi hanno prefissi eliduto.
---Iyouhesheweyouthey m.they f.they n.
nom.zegiueilziacoinvoinjusjasjous
DOzungenjenjanconvoniosiasjous
IOzigijijasiviililil


(do= direct object; io= indirect object)

The elided DO forms are respectively (the genders are disregarded): j', g', i', s', v', j'. The third person plural is the exact same as the first person singular.

Ex. Jan ebais.— I know her.
OR I'ebais.— I know her/him/it.
(ze isn't necessary)

"It" è espresso dai pronomi dimostrativi:
Haive /hɑv/ e ueinu /weə̯/. Non si usa i pronomi «eil» o «zia.»

I Nomi (e le loro declinazioni regolari)

(s. è singolare; pl è plurale)
caso e numeromaschile 1maschile 2femminile 1femminile 2neutro
nom.s.uCeae
obl.siCsiee
poss.s.uinileizainuin
voc.s.uninenanen
nom.plaisonoisonaiz
obl.pleseineseinaiz
poss.plaicoigoicoigoic
voc.plaisonoineinain


The vocative plural masculine 1 and feminine 2 have two forms: the ones given above, and -ain and -on respectively. Both variations are common, it's just that the forms in the table are slightly more common. These other ones are usually reserved for extra politeness or for greetings, whereas the ones in the table are just for commands and address.

Rather than call it genitive, I call it the possessive case in Celdovin. To call it the former gives the impression you can say "ib suiloig" for "of the stars." This is not the case[*]. The oblique should always be when the noun is not the subject of the sentence. Therefore, you say "ib suilon."

The possessive is used for both alienable and inalienable possession, but if it is a phrase like "Earth's orbit," you say "ji giomma ib urts" — the orbit of Earth.

Don't let the -s of urts fool you.  Ci sono certe preposizioni che vogliono il nominativo, ib essendone uno. Parlerò più avanti delle preposizioni, ma fino ad allora dovresti aspettare ;) .

Speaking of urts, in English loans the /θ/ often is assimilated to /ts/. Similarly, /ð/ is assimilated to /dz/, but sometimes just a plain /z/ (which is affricated anyway).

Now that you understand the cases better, now I can explain the pronouns! :partyhat: The "DO forms" are equivalent to the nominative case of nouns: you use subject pronouns only for the subject (but they're usually dropped anyway). The "IO forms" are equivalent to the oblique case of nouns.

Prepositions that indicate location usually take the nominative case (daz takes the nom, even though it means "for"). Likewise, prepositions indicating direction take the oblique. A few take both, but there are subtle differences.

Nas soffid— in/on the house
Nas soffids— into/onto the house


[*] bad linguistic pun :lol:
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby Mentilliath » 2015-03-20, 18:05

Looks like you got the tables working :D That update to the Halvian thread I posted was the first time I had successfully used tables.

I like the simple case system. What's the difference between Masculine 1&2 and Feminine 1&2? Are those just different declensions? Is this a purely a priori conlang?
Primary Conlang: Halvian
Additional conlangs: Galsaic (sister language of Halvian), and Ogygian (unrelated to the other two).

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Re: Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby linguoboy » 2015-03-20, 19:39

Koko wrote:C (come nell'italiano e il rumeno anche: [ç])
What varieties of Italian or Rumanian have [ç] represented by c? Is this some version of gorgia toscana I haven't heard of before? In Rumanian, I've only seen [ç] as an allophone of /f/ before /i/ in Muntenian dialects.
Koko wrote:N [n~ɲ~ŋ]
Typically, in phonetic transcription, tildes are used to separate allophones which are in free variation. Somehow I doubt that is the case here.
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Re: Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-03-20, 20:00

linguoboy wrote: Is this some version of gorgia toscana

I strongly doubt it. Wikipedia says [ç] can be found in some dialects of Southern Calabria (which is technically a language on its own, if I'm not wrong) but honestly I have no idea if they carry over this phoneme when they speak Italian and if so what letter it represents.

Maybe Koko got confused and actually meant [t͡ʃ]?

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Re: Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby Koko » 2015-03-20, 20:11

linguoboy wrote:
Koko wrote:C (come nell'italiano e il rumeno anche: [ç])
What varieties of Italian or Rumanian have [ç] represented by c? Is this some version of gorgia toscana I haven't heard of before? In Rumanian, I've only seen [ç] as an allophone of /f/ before /i/ in Muntenian dialects.

Sorry, I thought I put a semicolon :blush: . Thanks for pointing that out ^^ . [ç] is another phone represented by <c>.

Yeah, where I have the tildes I realize I should have instead put commas. In fact, in everycase under "L'alfabeta" the tilde needs to be changed except for h.

Mentilliath wrote:Looks like you got the tables working :D That update to the Halvian thread I posted was the first time I had successfully used tables.

Such a long process though. It took me like half an hour.

I like the simple case system. What's the difference between Masculine 1&2 and Feminine 1&2? Are those just different declensions? Is this a purely a priori conlang?

Thanks. The simplicity is a big step from Isyan. Wait till you see verbs :P . Even irregular verbs are hardly as bad as the Romance ones. As for the genders, those are indeed just different declensions. I didn't know what else to call them, so I just numbered them. Purely a priori 99% .

I'll admit there's one word I was inspired by Greek: niec— corpse. (From nekros)[*]


[*]fun fact: when Celdovin first started, I intended it to be a Latin-based conlang, and one idea was to have a few words from Greek that underwent similar changes from Latin in the borrowing. So "niec" was kept because I like it :lol: EDIT: actually, "suil" is like niec, as it was going to be the word for Sun, but in the change from Latin-Celdovin to Celdovin, I changed it simply to star (coz that's so different)
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-03-20, 20:25

Koko wrote:
linguoboy wrote:
Koko wrote:C (come nell'italiano e il rumeno anche: [ç])
What varieties of Italian or Rumanian have [ç] represented by c? Is this some version of gorgia toscana I haven't heard of before? In Rumanian, I've only seen [ç] as an allophone of /f/ before /i/ in Muntenian dialects.

Sorry, I thought I put a semicolon :blush: . Thanks for pointing that out ^^ . [ç] is another phone represented by <c>.

Do you mean that C can be pronounced as it is in Italian/Romanian and as [ç]?

If so, I would've said come in italiano e in rumeno e anche come [ç].
Last edited by IpseDixit on 2015-03-20, 20:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby Koko » 2015-03-20, 20:37

Yep. For example, you wouldn't say /ditʃ/ for not, but /diç/.

For words that end with /ç/, this pronunciation remains when they are prefixed onto other words.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby linguoboy » 2015-03-20, 20:42

Koko wrote:Yep. For example, you wouldn't say /ditʃ/ for not, but /diç/.

For words that end with /ç/, this pronunciation remains when they are prefixed onto other words.
Is this really phonemic though? Do you have any minimal pairs?
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Re: Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby IpseDixit » 2015-03-20, 20:48

Grazie in anticipo per tutte le correzioni! Se gli italiani qui possono consigliarmi un nome migliore in italiano per questa lingua artificiale, non esitate a dirmelo ^^


A me Celdovigno suona bene, potresti anche prendere in considerazione Celdovino o Celdovingio.

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Re: Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby Koko » 2015-03-20, 20:59

A few ;) Trust me, I've thought this conlang through.

"Prehoic" we ask /ˈprehoç/
"Prehoic" a request /ˈprehotʃ/

"Dicum" (exclusive) or /ˈdiçʌm/
"Dicum" nobody /ˈdikʌm/

Grazie Ipse. Ne penserò. "Celdovigno" mi sta piacendo…
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby Koko » 2015-03-20, 22:14

Ho corretto la prima posta (the tildes to commas). Also, I forgot that "e" can also be /ə/.

Anche, a chiarire, "haive" significa "questo" ed anche è neutro. Quindi, "uien" è "quello" e maschile. Mentre ueinu cambia il suo genero per quel che si riferisce, haive non lo fa.

P.e: Ueina (riferendo a un ritratto "dennia") na coif.— That's old.
Ueine (riferendo a pesce "obge") luibit.— That's cooking.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby Koko » 2015-03-21, 3:05

Le Coniugazioni Dei Verbi

Il verbo "natie" è irregolare, e così coniuga nel tempo presente:
personasingolareplurale
primanaisnaic
secondanatunat(ou)re
terzana(t)nain


Come vedete, il seconda persona plurale si dice in un modo di due: natoure o natre. Un fatto: "natoure" somiglia alla coniugazione regolare dei verbi che termine in "tie."

A cui arriviamo: (sostituisci -tie con la termine)

personasingolareplurale
primaisteic
secondatutoure
terzat(t)in


Non è spesso che si ode la forma della terza persona detta senza la t.

Alcuni Esempî:

Naish nat o suil. [ˈnai̯s nat̠ o ˈsuʎ]— The Sun is a star.
Gion ain luibit jiqalgi. [ˈdʒon̠ aɲ ˈlui̯bit ʒiˈħaldʒi]— Jon si sta cucinando della cena.
Zi tuccois nas roine. [zi ˈtʌkkoʃ nas ˈroi̯ne]— I often talk to myself.

Posterò l'altra coniugazione (terminando in "ra") più avanti. A presto!
Last edited by Koko on 2015-03-21, 8:31, edited 1 time in total.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

Koko
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Joined: 2013-11-29, 6:50
Real Name: Jon Stockman
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Re: Celdovin ~ Il Celdovigno

Postby Koko » 2015-03-21, 6:05

Mentilliath wrote:Looks like you got the tables working :D That update to the Halvian thread I posted was the first time I had successfully used tables.

For some reason, they looked really complex, but after figuring out that I did my first table properly, they're rather as simple as combining like terms ^^ .

.Now I need to figure out that list function
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^


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