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General Conlang Discussion - Page 25 - UniLang

General Conlang Discussion

This forum is for constructed languages, both those invented by UniLang members and those already existing.

Moderators: Ashucky, Dormouse559

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Iparxi_Zoi
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Iparxi_Zoi » 2015-01-02, 10:22

Irkan wrote:when you achieve europeanness without even noticing because you simply don't understand your language and you know about no other languages.


Well, I do agree with you on that.

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with a conlang acheiving "Europeanness" if it's IE based. I mean, if most IE languages naturally went in the same direction, why not a conlang? For me the point of having an IE conlang was for it to fit in with other IE natlangs. There are many things I like about European languages, for example: a periphrastic passive and extensive use of reflexive pronouns and the organization of Romance verbs (personally my favorite!).
Native/Mis lenguas maternas: español mexicano (Mexican Spanish) (es-MX) español (Spanish) (es) American English (en-US) English (en)
Advanced (I hope)/Espero que no se me olvide: français (French) (fr)
In love with/Me encantan: ελληνικά (Greek) (el) português (Portuguese) (pt)
Also intested in/También me interesarían: العربية (Arabic) (ar) italiano (Italian) (it) Türkçe (Turkish) (tr)

Koko
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Koko » 2015-01-16, 8:06

I'm thinking of making a portemanteau language: all (well, most) of the words are portmanteaux of words from various languages. For example, the word for sky would hypothetically be ciora ( (it) cielo +  (ja) zora).
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Iparxi_Zoi
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Iparxi_Zoi » 2015-01-16, 8:17

Koko wrote:I'm thinking of making a portemanteau language: all (well, most) of the words are portmanteaux of words from various languages. For example, the word for sky would hypothetically be ciora ( (it) cielo +  (ja) zora).


If that's your thing then go for it! I personally don't like portmanteau languages, but then again I like drawing a posteriori conlangs from one language family.
Native/Mis lenguas maternas: español mexicano (Mexican Spanish) (es-MX) español (Spanish) (es) American English (en-US) English (en)
Advanced (I hope)/Espero que no se me olvide: français (French) (fr)
In love with/Me encantan: ελληνικά (Greek) (el) português (Portuguese) (pt)
Also intested in/También me interesarían: العربية (Arabic) (ar) italiano (Italian) (it) Türkçe (Turkish) (tr)

Koko
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Koko » 2015-01-17, 1:57

It's just a thought. It's not very creative, but if I can make a language that sounds nice and is kinda unintelligible still, I guess I accomplished my goal.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Levike
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Levike » 2015-01-18, 2:16

Koko wrote:It's just a thought. It's not very creative, but if I can make a language that sounds nice and is kinda unintelligible still, I guess I accomplished my goal.
My question is: Why should a language be intelligible to sound nice?

To be honest, here on Unilang I only understand the Romlangs and a couple of Esperanto-copies.

Mentilliath's language sounds nice, even though I can only guess what words in it mean.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

Koko
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Koko » 2015-01-18, 3:36

I didn't mean that. I've tried a posteriori languages before and they didn't sound at all pretty. So if I can make a nice sounding unintelligible portmanteau language, I would've accomplished my goal. Here's the criteria I want for it if I were to go along with the idea: (it'll give a better explanation on what I meant)

- unintelligible
- aesthetically appeasing (both in sound and in writing)
- a phonology that suits the languages I base it on
- an orthography that suits it
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

Ahzoh
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Ahzoh » 2015-01-18, 19:07

by unintelligible, you mean MUTUALLY unintelligible to another language?
Considering that is the characteristic of most languages, I'd say that goal is a given.

If you want an aesthetically appealing writing system, make letters that include curves.
A native of  (en-CA)
Conlang: Image
Economic Left/Right: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.46

Koko
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Koko » 2015-01-18, 19:22

Mutually unintelligible with the languages I take from yes.

I might use that alphabet with which I use for Isyan :hmm: . It's got curves and I've always loved it. Though orthographies can be very pretty with few curves: the Hebrew abjad exempli gratias.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Патрислав Андреевич
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Патрислав Андреевич » 2015-01-18, 20:27

I hate how I think way too much about every word or grammatical paradigm I create, and change it multiple times because "it still isn't good enough." And then I scrap it anyway. Doesn't take me anywhere!
„Miej serce i patrzaj w serce!” — Adam Mickiewicz

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Iparxi_Zoi
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Iparxi_Zoi » 2015-01-19, 20:59

Патрислав Андреевич wrote:I hate how I think way too much about every word or grammatical paradigm I create, and change it multiple times because "it still isn't good enough." And then I scrap it anyway. Doesn't take me anywhere!


I have this problem all the time!! I think at one moment where going to have to not focus so much on what sounds good and just focus on functionality, and let everything else be a secondary outcome. After all, what doesn't sound good enough to us might sound excellent to somebody else!
Native/Mis lenguas maternas: español mexicano (Mexican Spanish) (es-MX) español (Spanish) (es) American English (en-US) English (en)
Advanced (I hope)/Espero que no se me olvide: français (French) (fr)
In love with/Me encantan: ελληνικά (Greek) (el) português (Portuguese) (pt)
Also intested in/También me interesarían: العربية (Arabic) (ar) italiano (Italian) (it) Türkçe (Turkish) (tr)

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Vlürch
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Vlürch » 2015-01-24, 3:42

Koko wrote:I'm thinking of making a portemanteau language: all (well, most) of the words are portmanteaux of words from various languages. For example, the word for sky would hypothetically be ciora ( (it) cielo +  (ja) zora).

Sounds like a fun idea.
Патрислав Андреевич wrote:I hate how I think way too much about every word or grammatical paradigm I create, and change it multiple times because "it still isn't good enough." And then I scrap it anyway. Doesn't take me anywhere!

Same... ugh.

As for the discussion on intelligibility, my opinion is that the less sense it makes, the better it is as an actual language. I mean, of course constructed languages will never be on "equal footing" with natural languages (if that's a good way to put it), but the more realistic a conlang is, the more interesting it has the potential to be. Not necessarily realistic in the sense that it's learnable or that it makes sense internally, but rather that it sounds real and could "fool" professional linguists into thinking it was some extinct language isolate or such if it was presented on its own without context. Maybe that's a bit weird way to look at it, but the point is that I feel like if a conlang grows beyond its creator's grasp, that's a good thing. Someone might "discover" connections to actual languages (whether pure coincidences or subconscious quirks) and it could go on to live a life of its own. :wink: This is why I consider glossolalia to be a valid pseudo-linguistic practice. That may be something of an oxymoron, but trust me when I say that I'm too much of a moron to care.

Maybe this would better fit a new thread, but I don't want to become known as an annoying douche who makes random threads on a whim (if I'm not already that), but here's an idea: how about speed conlanging? There's speed painting, speed writing, etc. so speedlanging should be pretty interesting... quickly coming up with gibberish that looks/sounds like it could make sense but doesn't, maybe along with half-arsed translations and some jumble to go along with it as a brief description. These could have the potential to con linguists, giving another meaning to conlanging, but I'm not sure if that's an entirely bad thing. Or, alternatively, making a conlang in a day and that being all, but I don't know if that'd result in anything even remotely interesting.

Quickly coming up with a conlang...

Plural prefix: ál-
Possessive suffix: -ne (added to possessor)
Adjective suffix: -us
Negative suffix: -lód

1st person pronoun: ca
2nd pp: ja
3rd pp: qa

to be - at, atu, ag, agu, ad, adu (1st sin, 1st plu, 2nd sin, 2nd plu, 3rd sin, 3rd plu)
to be able to - uku

Verb conjugation:
Present: -ítar
Imperfect: -étar
Future: -útar

one - géns
two - nárs
three - lébs

and - elc

language - kaurwál
horse - gemmi
horn - kúl
unicorn - génkúlgemmi

Álcane kaurwál ad génkúlgemmus elc álja ukulódétar elc ukulódútar.
Our language is unicorny and you haven't learned it and you couldn't learn it.
:lol:

Ahzoh
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Ahzoh » 2015-01-24, 16:24

Ẕaẏ qar ʾaqʾed ʾitim... ʾib ḵōb...
A native of  (en-CA)
Conlang: Image
Economic Left/Right: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.46

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Irkan
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Irkan » 2015-01-30, 12:44

People, I am really curious about a particular kind of construction: noun + preposition + noun. An easy example would be the person under me. I usually have trouble with this in my conlangs. In my latest project, I had been thinking of genitive being the only case allowed to connect nouns to other nouns, so this kind of structure would become something like my person or the person of me. So the walkaround (I don't know if I got this word right) would be using relative clauses, since I have no prepositions, so the phrase would be the person that is under me (which is morphologically very similar to the first proposed structure: person under-rel me).

Do you guys tackle this structure in some kind of special way?

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Levike
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Levike » 2015-01-30, 17:23

I don't have anything special, but this is how it works:

íntler méne tur ---------- person under me ( lit: person me under)
íntler tótor méne tur --- person being under me ( lit: person being me under )
íntler ég méne tur ------ person that's under me ( lit: person that (is) me under )

But I don't see why this would require something special. :?
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Dormouse559 » 2015-01-30, 18:50

"I saw the woman from down the street" can mean very different things depending on whether you interpret "from down the street" as adverbial or adjectival. English and a lot of European languages don't explicitly make that distinction, but there's no reason for another language not to.
N'hésite pas à corriger mes erreurs.

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Irkan
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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Irkan » 2015-01-30, 20:50

Dormouse559 wrote:"I saw the woman from down the street" can mean very different things depending on whether you interpret "from down the street" as adverbial or adjectival. English and a lot of European languages don't explicitly make that distinction, but there's no reason for another language not to.

This example is wonderful to work with! Thank you :)

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Mentilliath » 2015-01-31, 3:07

Dormouse559 wrote:"I saw the woman from down the street" can mean very different things depending on whether you interpret "from down the street" as adverbial or adjectival. English and a lot of European languages don't explicitly make that distinction, but there's no reason for another language not to.


Do you have an example of a language making the distinction? I'm just curious because I can't seem to think of one off hand.
Primary Conlang: Halvian
Additional conlangs: Galsaic (sister language of Halvian), and Ogygian (unrelated to the other two).

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby hashi » 2015-01-31, 9:16

If any of you have working conlangs and want to participate in an event called CoWriMo (like NaNoWriMo, but for conlangs), we're running this over at ConWorkShop for the month of February.

It's hopefully a really good way to build your language and get some use out of it :) You don't have to join us on ConWorkShop, but if you want, you can participate on Tumblr as well using #cowrimo_2015 as a tag.

Saya kyan :)
Thanks guys :)

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby Irkan » 2015-01-31, 9:33

Mentilliath wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote:"I saw the woman from down the street" can mean very different things depending on whether you interpret "from down the street" as adverbial or adjectival. English and a lot of European languages don't explicitly make that distinction, but there's no reason for another language not to.


Do you have an example of a language making the distinction? I'm just curious because I can't seem to think of one off hand.

Spanish does:

-Vi a la mujer [des de la punta de la calle]
-Vi [a la mujer de la punta de la calle]

PS: @hashi, I think non-registered people won't be able to see the CoWriMo instructions thread:
Image

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Re: General Conlang Discussion

Postby hashi » 2015-01-31, 9:59

The clan page gives an overview of what it's about, and if they want to go deeper into it, they can join, or participate in their own way ;)


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