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Ditronó - UniLang

Ditronó

This forum is for constructed languages, both those invented by UniLang members and those already existing.

Moderators: Ashucky, Dormouse559

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Levike
Posts: 3496
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Real Name: Levente
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Location: Marosvásárhely
Country: RO Romania (România)

Ditronó

Postby Levike » 2014-03-10, 18:55

Name of the language:
Ditronó = inspired from the Transylvanian Hungarian village Ditró.

Inspiration:
Grammar = European and Finno-Ugric
Vocabulary = Inspired from things, brands, names that remind me of that word

Phonology:
ConsonantsVowels
p - /p/ , b - /b/
t - /t/ , d - /d/
k - /k/ , g - /ɡ/
f - /f/ , v - /v/
s - /s/ , z - /z/
j - /j/ , h - /h/
l - /l/ , r - /r/
m - /m/ , n - /n/
ts - /ts/
a - /ɒ/ , á - /a:/
e - /ɛ/ , é - /e:/
i - /i/ , í - /i:/
o - /o/ , ó - /o:/
u - /u/, ú - /u:/


Script:
Image

Declination of nouns:
NominativeAccusativeDativeGenitiveVocative
Masculineururstiurmúurmaurhé
Feminineififstiifmúifmaifhé
Neutreererstiermúermaerhé
Inanimateóóstiomúomaóhé


Indefinite article:

Declination of adjectives:
Basicmorethe mostlessthe least
Masculineus / sulegsulélegsubegsubébegs
Feminineis / silegsilélegsibegsibébegs
Neutrees / sélegselélegsebegsebébegs
Inanimateos / solegsolélegsobegsobébegs

ParticipleGerundSupine
Masculineúvaimaúvá
Feminineiveimaivé
Neutreeveimaevé
Inanimateovaimaóvá


Declination of adverbs:
Basic
1stoms
2ndóvs
3rdóts


Demonstrative pronouns:
THISNounAdjectiveTHATNounAdjective
MasculineTeblurblúsMas.Teturtús
FeminineTeblifblisFem.*Tefiftis
NeutreTéblerblesNeut.*Téfertes
InanimateTeblóblósInani.Tetótós

*Irregularity [t->f]

Quantifiers:
noneoneanyfewsomemanyevery
óritiélaíntibélaúri


Declination of pronouns:
NominativeAccusativeDativePrepositionalGenitiveVocative
1stímemestímemúménememamehé
2ndívevestívemúvénevemavehé
3rdítefestítemúténetematehé


Interrogative pronouns:
whatwhohow manywherewhenwhy
hó / legó hóintler hóhastó hótavró hórolkó hóhómu / legomú hó


Conjugation of verbs:
Atemporal*Present*Past*FuturePresentPastFuture
1st-om-om tór-om bás-om les-om teas-om beas-om leas
2nd-óv-óv tór-óv bás-óv les-óv teas-óv beas-óv leas
3rd-ót-ót tór-ót bás-ót les-ót teas-ót beas-ót leas

*Actions with result or with expected success.

Verb moods & modal verbs:
Indicative (optional)ConjunctiveConditionalImperativePresumptive
1stdaajavajahír
2nddaajavajahír
3rddaajavajahír


ModalsCanWant
1sttudomrom
2ndtudóvróv
3rdtudótrót


ReflexiveBeforeAfter
1stóta- ... -om-om óta
2ndóta- ... -óv-óv óta
3rdóta- ... -ót-ót óta


Plurals:
SingularPlural
Animate Nounsurg/if/erurt/ift/ert
Inanimate Nounsóút
Pronounseet
Verbsom/óv/ótomet/óvet/ótet


Numbers:
CardinalOrdinal
0órióritopós
1lótopós
2tébetébetopós
3ágliáglitopós
4dálidálitopós
5éviévitopós
6vávavávatopós
7zétezétetopós
8hesihesitopós
9tesitesitopós
10lórilóritopós


Conjunctions:
andorbutifbecauseso/thenthat
megévelúdhólterástóterásí


Prepositions:
fromininto
bólbeabes
fromatto
tólteates
fromononto
rólreares
from besidebesideto beside
nebólnebnebés
from betweenbetweento between
tifróltifratirfás
from aboveaboveto above
himólhimahimás
from belowbelowto below
turóltúrturás
from aroundaroundto around
pólolpólpólás
from throughthroughto through
visólvísvísás

withéva
withoutfór
in favour oftva
againstóstil
beforeínte
afterúrma
untildes
aboutduma
because oftrez
like /astíl
timesdóri


Sentences:
DitronianEnglish
AgaYes
ÍviNo
HéstiHi/Bye
Legóho kartsó vema?What's your name?
Levi kartsó memaMy name is Levi
Lótébehút vemu?How old are you?
Tébeóri memúI am 20 years old.
Tavróhó bea ampróv?Where do you live?
Varsó bea ampromI live in Warsaw
Íve hó?How are you?
LikomsI am well
Íme romPlease
Istótlom iviI don't understand
Bablom ditronóstiI speak Ditronian
Vesti katromI love you
KikrútThank you
Gló évaYou're welcome


Vocabulary:


Comments/advices are welcomed!
Last edited by Levike on 2015-03-20, 21:29, edited 857 times in total.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

User avatar
Levike
Posts: 3496
Joined: 2013-04-22, 19:26
Real Name: Levente
Gender: male
Location: Marosvásárhely
Country: RO Romania (România)

Re: Beliso ditrono

Postby Levike » 2014-03-10, 20:17

Could you give any advice for the past/future conjugation endings?
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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linguoboy
Posts: 14699
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Beliso ditrono

Postby linguoboy » 2014-03-10, 20:27

Levente wrote:Could you give any advice for the past/future conjugation endings?

Why have endings? Rumanian, Hungarian, and English all use analytical constructions to express future time, and both Rumanian and English have periphrastic perfects.

So what informed your decision not to inflect verbs for number?
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
Levike
Posts: 3496
Joined: 2013-04-22, 19:26
Real Name: Levente
Gender: male
Location: Marosvásárhely
Country: RO Romania (România)

Re: Beliso ditrono

Postby Levike » 2014-03-10, 20:33

linguoboy wrote:Why have endings? Rumanian, Hungarian, and English all use analytical constructions to express future time, don't they?
Yes, they do, but I want a compact language.
The less words it has the better, that's why it also doesn't have an article.
So what informed your decision not to inflect verbs for number?
I decided not to have plurals at all for anything, because that would just complicate the situation.
Plus, if I had verbs for plural that would mean that I also have to invent plural pronouns.
Which I sadly don't have.
The truth is that German and Romanian made me hate plurals.

But maybe I'll change my mind, who knows.
Last edited by Levike on 2014-03-10, 20:43, edited 1 time in total.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 14699
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Beliso ditrono

Postby linguoboy » 2014-03-10, 20:42

Levente wrote:
linguoboy wrote:Why have endings? Rumanian, Hungarian, and English all use analytical constructions to express future time, don't they?
Yes, they do, but I want a compact language.

Periphrasis and compactness aren't mutually exclusive. Which is more compact, Hungarian or Chinese?

Why is it important that your language be "compact" anyway? What are you planning to do with it?

Levente wrote:
So what informed your decision not to inflect verbs for number?
I decided not to have plurals at all for anything, because that would just complicate the situation.
Plus, if I had verbs for plural that would mean that I also have to invent plural pronouns.
Which I sadly don't have.

You're going to need some means of expressing number, whether it's an inflection or some other means. Chinese, Korean, and Japanese don't inflect verbs for number (or person either), but all three have means of "pluralising" pronouns. (Korean is especially interesting in that it has a plural particle which is essentially free floating. 들 can appear almost anywhere in a sentence to indicate that the notion of plurality is involved.)
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
Levike
Posts: 3496
Joined: 2013-04-22, 19:26
Real Name: Levente
Gender: male
Location: Marosvásárhely
Country: RO Romania (România)

Re: Ditrono

Postby Levike » 2014-03-10, 20:51

The compactness is just for aesthetic reasons.

I didn't make a decision on the plural yet,
but most probably I'll just put a number before the nouns:

ben embur = a man
den embur = two men
fen embur = three men
gen embur = four men
hen embur = five men
en embur = men

For plurals I put en before the noun.
I took it from mathematics where at sequences the last element is denoted by n.

The numbers are: ben, den, fen, gen, hen ...
You can easily guess how it continues
because I took the consonants from the alphabet and added +en.
I skipped c and j because I didn't come up with a pronunciation for them.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

User avatar
linguoboy
Posts: 14699
Joined: 2009-08-25, 15:11
Location: Chicago
Country: US United States (United States)

Re: Ditrono

Postby linguoboy » 2014-03-10, 21:11

That's fine as far as it goes, but what do you plan to do when it's important to distinguish, say, "They did it" from "She/He did it"?
"Richmond is a real scholar; Owen just learns languages because he can't bear not to know what other people are saying."--Margaret Lattimore on her two sons

User avatar
Levike
Posts: 3496
Joined: 2013-04-22, 19:26
Real Name: Levente
Gender: male
Location: Marosvásárhely
Country: RO Romania (România)

Re: Ditrono

Postby Levike » 2014-03-10, 21:17

I would apply the same rule:

She/he = te
they = en te
two of them = den te
three of them = fen te
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Beliso ditrono

Postby ~jakip » 2014-03-10, 21:26

Levente wrote:Could you give any advice for the past/future conjugation endings?

If you want to simplify your life you can change the first vowel to make the other tenses simpler (for example em → im, om, um... , ev → iv, ov, uv...). Or you can use an unique verb for every person of present, past, future, ecc... :yep:
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Re: Ditrono

Postby linguoboy » 2014-03-10, 21:34

Levente wrote:I would apply the same rule:

She/he = te
they = en te
two of them = den te
three of them = fen te

So rather than inflect the verb, you're going to make subject pronouns obligatory? Or only where disambiguation/emphasis is necessary?
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Re: Beliso ditrono

Postby Levike » 2014-03-10, 21:39

~jakip wrote:If you want to simplify your life you can change the first vowel to make the other tenses simpler (for example em → im, om, um... , ev → iv, ov, uv...). Or you can use an unique verb for every person of present, past, future, ecc... :yep:

The problem for example with om
would be that I already used that ending for the inanimate noun in dative.

That's why I put the vowel "e" in the present because I didn't use it anywhere else.

Hmmm, not a bad idea.

Maybe I'll make up an auxiliary verb and make it a suffix.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Ditrono

Postby Levike » 2014-03-10, 21:42

linguoboy wrote:So rather than inflect the verb, you're going to make subject pronouns obligatory? Or only where disambiguation/emphasis is necessary?

The singular will be the default,
and the pronouns only appear when knowing the numbers might be important.

I've been thinking about the English pronoun "you"
that most of the time the context helps you to find out the number.

Or maybe even in that case just put the word "en" before the verb?
Or maybe I should add "en" as a suffix?

Yeah, I'm making a plural. :mrgreen:
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Beliso ditrono

Postby ~jakip » 2014-03-10, 21:53

Levente wrote:
~jakip wrote:If you want to simplify your life you can change the first vowel to make the other tenses simpler (for example em → im, om, um... , ev → iv, ov, uv...). Or you can use an unique verb for every person of present, past, future, ecc... :yep:

The problem for example with om
would be that I already used that ending for the inanimate noun in dative.

That's why I put the vowel "e" in the present because I didn't use it anywhere else.

Hmmm, not a bad idea.

Maybe I'll make up an auxiliary verb and make it a suffix.

With auxiliaries it could be interesting, not a bad idea.
Another way could be to change the consonant. Sorry but I think it could be simpler if you don't change at all the "form" of the verb tenses.
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Re: Beliso ditrono

Postby Levike » 2014-03-10, 21:57

~jakip wrote:Another way could be to change the consonant.
Sorry but I think it could be simpler if you don't change at all the "form" of the verb tenses.

You mean like leaving it entirely to context?

For example:
Instead of "I ate a cookie yesterday" simply "I eat a cookie yesterday"?

By the way, I came up with the first sentence:
Belisem ditronul. = I speak ditronian.
Last edited by Levike on 2014-03-10, 22:22, edited 1 time in total.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Beliso ditrono

Postby linguoboy » 2014-03-10, 22:09

Levente wrote:You mean like leaving it entirely to context?

For example:
Instead of "I ate a cookie yesterday" simply "I eat a cookie yesterday"?

If you're going to go down that route, you may want to read up on analytic languages like Chinese and Thai.

Since the lexicon is a priori, you might also want to look at creoles derived from European languages such as Haitian and Bislama.
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Re: Beliso ditrono

Postby ~jakip » 2014-03-10, 22:20

Levente wrote:
~jakip wrote:Another way could be to change the consonant.
Sorry but I think it could be simpler if you don't change at all the "form" of the verb tenses.

You mean like leaving it entirely to context?

For example:
Instead of "I ate a cookie yesterday" simply "I eat a cookie yesterday"?

By the way, I came up with the first sentence:
Belisem ditronul. = I speak ditronian.

Mh... I didn't mean that. I meant to change the consonant instead of the vowel.
For example:
Belisem ditronul → I speak ditronian
Beliser/Beliset/Belisef/ecc... ditronul → I spoke ditronian
Now I see that it couldn't be a great way... they could be confused the sounds, they all seem at each others.
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Re: Beliso ditrono

Postby Levike » 2014-03-10, 22:20

linguoboy wrote:If you're going to go down that route, you may want to read up on analytic languages like Chinese and Thai.

Since the lexicon is a priori, you might also want to look at creoles derived from European languages such as Haitian and Bislama.

Hungarian often does this when it comes to the future:
Holnap megyek a moziba = Tomorrow I go to the cinema.

And the lexicon, I'm just going to take words randomly,
but mostly from Hungarian so it won't resemble the all-known Romance languages.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Beliso ditrono

Postby Levike » 2014-03-10, 22:25

~jakip wrote:Belisem ditronul → I speak ditronian
Beliser/Beliset/Belisef/ecc... ditronul → I spoke ditronian
Now I see that it couldn't be a great way... they could be confused the sounds, they all seem at each others.

Well, I chose the letters m, v, and t because the personal pronouns begin with those, so indeed.

I was thinking about maybe stealing the endings from a Latin language,
maybe Italian or Romanian.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Ditrono

Postby Koko » 2014-03-11, 6:34

I don't see a reason to differ between future and present, or present and past: English has varying options of examples for the non-past tense, in fact, it's debatable if it really even needs the auxiliary "will" since context can already show the difference. Japanese does this too; there is no future, only a crapload of tenses including negative conjugations for each(and adjectives).

Number for anything is also easily represented by number words, and I believe that in Japanese, despite it being more common to just use the same word for both singular and plural, you can double the word(mokuboku I believe is "trees," I may be wrong, since this came from wikipedia).

If you want simplicity I suggest a past-nonpast verb system and no declinable numbers.

This is interesting to see how your language turns out.(the "turns out" is an example of the English non-past BTW)
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: Ditrono

Postby Levike » 2014-03-11, 12:37

I've decided I want these 6 tenses:

present simple & continuous
past simple & continuous
future simple & continuous

But I'm still debating how they should look ...
I'm currently looking for inspiration in European languages.

Made these modifications:
1. Accusative ends in -st, from the Hungarian -t
2. Dative ends in -mu, because some Slavic language's case ends in u, don't know which?
3. Genitive ends in -pos, from the Romanian word posesie ( possession ).
4. Vocative ends in -he, from words like "hi", "hello".

What do you think, should I make a prepositional case?
Or just add them to the nominative?
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.


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