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Ditronó - Page 19 - UniLang

Ditronó

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Koko
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Re: Ditróno

Postby Koko » 2014-12-28, 9:09

Levike wrote:I wanted to get rid of modal verbs so I replaced them with colours. […] What do you think?

I think it's a cool idea. But it might be that much more cooler if you gave your idea cultural ties so as to make their idiomatic uses have reason.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Levike
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Re: Ditróno

Postby Levike » 2014-12-28, 15:02

They do have a reason.

For example in Romania if a traffic sign is painted blue it means that you're obligated to follow it.
Or the red traffic light which forces you to stop, while the green one allows you to go.

That's why I made blue=must, red=cannot and green=can.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Ditróno

Postby Levike » 2015-01-01, 19:24

I'm changing the conjunctions and, or, so.

They are based on the logical signs ∧ (and),∨ (or), → (so).

ívi = or ( ∨ looks like the letter "v" )
íli = and ( ∧ looks like a lambda )
ítsi = so ( → looks like the letter in the Old Hungarian Script that was used for /ts/ )

The problem was that the word for "not" was also "ivi"
So the new word for "not" is going to be "fi", since people say "pfff" if they dislike something.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Levike
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Re: Ditróno

Postby Levike » 2015-01-03, 21:02

New conjugation.

AtemporalPresentEternalPastFuture
1st-om-om tór-om mér-om bás-om les
2nd-ov-ov tór-ov mér-ov bás-ov les
3rd-ot-ot tór-ot mér-ot bás-ot les

The use of the tenses is inspired by Hungarian.
Hungarian has a past and a non-past tense, but you can figure out if it's present or future by looking at its context or if necessary you can put an auxiliary verb.

You have the non-temporal conjugation, which only shows you who's performing the action:
So if you say katróm, that means I love, but it doesn't specify anything about the time.

If you can't figure out its time by context then you can add one word to specify it:
For example katróm les means I will love while katróm bás means I loved.

1. Tór is from Greek τώρα (now).
2. Mér is from Romanian mereu (always).
3. Bás is from Latin and Spanish verbs, like amaba (I loved)
4. Les is from Hungarian lesz (it will be)
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Levike
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Re: Ditróno

Postby Levike » 2015-01-08, 17:34

New numbers for the 100th time. :mrgreen:

012345678910
óritébeáglidáliepsivávazétehesitesilóri

Apart from 0 and 1, the rest are taken from the names of the letters of the Hebrew alphabet.
Like ágli (3), which is from gimel/gamma and dáli (4) which comes from daleth/delta.

Unfortunately I couldn't give them any common ending, they all sounded too awkward.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Levike
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Re: Ditróno

Postby Levike » 2015-01-15, 20:09

Some new words with their etymologies.

dunó = water ( Danube river )
ólto = river ( Olt river in Transylvania )
baltó = lake ( Balaton Lake in Hungary )
egó = sea/ocean ( Aegean Sea )

neró = fire ( Since Nero burnt Rome )
rubalkaló = sand ( Rub al Khali desert )
maktó = desert ( Maktesh Ramon in Israel )

How would you say it in English: the river Olt or the Olt river?
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Ditróno

Postby Dormouse559 » 2015-01-15, 20:35

Levike wrote:How would you say it in English: the river Olt or the Olt river?
I guess I'd say "the Olt River", though "the River Olt" doesn't sound wrong, just more poetic. After first reference, it would be possible to just say "the Olt". More famous rivers (Seine, Thames, Mississippi, Ganges) are less predictable.
N'hésite pas à corriger mes erreurs.

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Re: Ditróno

Postby Levike » 2015-01-29, 0:00

@Dormouse: Thanks.

Some updates for Ditronian:

1. New ending to express the future when talking about adjectives.
NormalFuture
Masc.-us-uren
Fem.-is-iren
Neut.-es-éren
Inan.-os-óren

liks - good
likóren - about to be good

monlós - beautiful
monlóren - about to be beautiful

The "-ren" ending comes from "les", which means "it will be", but "ren" is easier to pronounce.

2. New words to express quantity, I hope there isn't anything missing.
noneoneanyfewsomemanyevery
óribilómuóíntibélaúri

Ínti intler - some people
Ímlif ló - one mother
Béla husúr - many doctors
Úri rékser ége báster - Every dog and cat
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Levike
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Re: Ditróno

Postby Levike » 2015-01-29, 22:59

Some new words:

ubló - eye ( Hubble Space telscope )
ublóm - to see ( Hubble Space Telescope )
bazkó - danger ( Bazooka )
taltó - religion ( Táltos - important figure in the Hungarian mythology )
béla - many ( Hungary had a lot of kings called Béla )
juptó - weather ( Jupiter, the god of the skies )
mátos - correct ( Mátyás the Just, a Hungarian king )
zeglóm - to protect ( Kazimierz Żegleń invented the modern bulletproof vest )
marvs - foreign ( Marvin the Martian )
lerdóm - to paint / to draw ( Leonardo Da Vinci )
tunóm - to swim ( Tuna fish )
blutó - connection ( Bluetooth )
maglóm - to travel ( Magellan )

Are there languages where the verb "to see" comes from the word "eye"?

Why isn't this more common?
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Ditróno

Postby Koko » 2015-01-30, 0:43

Levike wrote:Are there languages where the verb "to see" comes from the word "eye"?

I don't know if this is correlation, but the word for eye 目 (me) in Japanese seems to come from 見る (miru) or vice versa. The kanji are certainly derived from each other.

Isyan oejan comes from oa (eye).
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Naava
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Re: Ditróno

Postby Naava » 2015-01-30, 18:37

Also Finnish "silmäillä", to glance, to skim something, and "silmätä" - to glance, come from silmä - eye.

By the way, I'm getting suspicious of how you seem to come up with (almost) exactly same ideas as I do with my language! :D First the time tenses, now the verb for look... What next? :D Are you a telepath? (Okay, those are not super unique ideas, I know. I'm just having fun following this thread and seeing "my" ideas in someone else's language! I think it's great.)
native:  (fi)
speaks more or less fluently:  (en)
can talk about weird topics in:  (sv)
learning process started:  (ru) &  (et)

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Levike
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Re: Ditróno

Postby Levike » 2015-01-30, 19:24

Naava wrote:Also Finnish "silmäillä", to glance, to skim something, and "silmätä" - to glance, come from silmä - eye.
Kind of the same in Hungarian. :wink:

szem - eye
szemezni - to glance

By the way, I'm getting suspicious of how you seem to come up with (almost) exactly same ideas as I do with my language! :D First the time tenses, now the verb for look... What next? :D Are you a telepath? (Okay, those are not super unique ideas, I know. I'm just having fun following this thread and seeing "my" ideas in someone else's language! I think it's great.)
Thanks.

Do you have any place where I could maybe take a look at your language?
You know ... so I could copy-paste even more. :twisted:
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Ditróno

Postby Naava » 2015-01-31, 11:48

Levike wrote:Do you have any place where I could maybe take a look at your language?
You know ... so I could copy-paste even more. :twisted:

Haha, in my mind? :D I'm a bit shy to show it to anyone before it's 99% perfect, so I don't have a topic in Unilang or anywhere else. It's been my own "hobby", something I spend lots of time with when I get an inspiration and then let it be for months. (I do have an example of the alphabet, if you're interested.)

Sometimes I have doubted if it's too complicated and unrealistic, and that's why it's so good to see that you have the same ideas as I do. If it were too crazy, no one else could ever come up with something similar. I have a conculture for it, so it needs to be at least somewhat plausible.

But I am interested how much the languages we already know affect the conlang we create. Many new conlangers accidentally copy their native language grammar. I've tried to avoid that, but I still have highly agglunative conlang with CV-structure like Finnish... :D Of course I'm not aiming at deleting all Finnish-ness, that'd be a bit riddiculous and difficult. It's just funny to notice that I've "copied" the syllable structure when I didn't know I should pay attention to that, too. It's one of the oldest things in my language: I started to make up words randomly and later on thought which one of them seem good to me. Maybe it feels more familiar and so more pleasant if it resembles my mother tongue. :D And now you have similar-ish tenses as I have, and you say that your grammar is from European and Finno-Ugric languages. Is it a mere coincidence or is my Indo-European+Finno-Ugric language skills having fun again?

Btw, I've noticed that all of your words end with long o. Why isn't Ditróno then Ditrónó? Have I missed something? :D
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Re: Ditróno

Postby Levike » 2015-01-31, 12:30

Naava wrote:(I do have an example of the alphabet, if you're interested.)
At least our alphabets are totally different. :)

Mine looks like Mongolian while yours looks like Georgian without heart-shaped letters.
But I am interested how much the languages we already know affect the conlang we create. Many new conlangers accidentally copy their native language grammar.
Yeah, mine is made out of bits and pieces, I'm not focusing on making it similar to anything.

That's why the plural is made by adding -t, like in ancient Egyptian.

But willingly-unwillingly most of my ideas linked to structure are my mother tongue.
All of my prepositions became postpositions and now are pronounced together with their noun.
The tenses are inspired from the Hungarian future since it only has past and non-past.
And the pronunciation is almost totally copy-pasted.

Btw, I've noticed that all of your words end with long o. Why isn't Ditróno then Ditrónó? Have I missed something? :D
Easier to pronounce. :whistle:
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Ditronó

Postby Levike » 2015-02-05, 15:56

Little change in phonology.

From now on short o's appear before b, d, g, j, l, m, n, r, v, z,
and long ó's before ts, f, h, k, p, s and t.

In Hungarian the first list of letters are called zöngés and the second one zöngtelen.
I don't know the English name for this categorisation.

However I choose to put the long ó before the the second list
because it makes pronunciation easier.

Example sentence:
Alpóts lúd tebló tóterás ori rolkó bea tudom legóhósti aja trezom.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Ditronó

Postby Naava » 2015-02-07, 11:24

Yeah, your alphabet is totally different. :D Did you take any influence from Mongolian or is it just pure coincidence?
I've never thought mine looks like Georgian, but now when you said so, I can see it. :D My original aim was to mimic Arabian letters with a personal touch. It seems that's how you create Georgian.

The tenses are inspired from the Hungarian future since it only has past and non-past.

I guess mine tenses came from Finnish, then, because it doesn't have separate future either. Actually, some of the words look alike in every tense (mietin = future, present and past). That's one of the reasons why my language has tenseless verbs: I've seen it working in real life. :D
I think Chinese had something similar, too, but as I don't speak it, I can't really say it has had any kind of influence on me.

However I choose to put the long ó before the the second list because it makes pronunciation easier.

Easier to who? Is there a linguistic explanation (like that consonant clusters are more difficult to produce than single consonants) or is it your opinion?
I'm not saying it should have any beautiful international reasons, I'm just interested.

Do you know if any other language makes the distinction between zöngés and zöngtelen? I've never heard of these before, sounds like a nice idea! Is it because zöngés are voiced and zöngtelen not, so that long ó comes before voiceless phonemes?
And this happens only with o and not with any other vowel?
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Re: Ditronó

Postby Levike » 2015-02-07, 12:27

Naava wrote:Yeah, your alphabet is totally different. :D Did you take any influence from Mongolian or is it just pure coincidence?
I really like the old Mongolian script, but I wasn't trying to copy it.
The only thing I took from it was the direction of writing it.

If you take a better look, you can see that all of the consonants are actually Latin letters.
I just took my old ugly hand-writing and turned it 90 degrees. :silly:

Actually, some of the words look alike in every tense (mietin = future, present and past).
What do you mean by "some of them". On what does it depend?

That's one of the reasons why my language has tenseless verbs: I've seen it working in real life.
Yep, context always helps.

There's no reason to use a specific conjugation is sentences like "I go tomorrow to school".
However I choose to put the long ó before the the second list
because it makes pronunciation easier.
Easier to who?
For me.

I don't know why, but I think that ót is way easier to pronounce than ot.
And ód is harder to pronounce than od.

Do you know if any other language makes the distinction between zöngés and zöngtelen? I've never heard of these before, sounds like a nice idea!
I'm really bad at phonology.

The Hungarian Wikipedia says that if the sound comes from your vocal cords then it's zöngés,
and if your vocal cords do not vibrate then it's zöngetlen.

Google Translate says zöngés = voiced, zöngétlen = voiceless.
And this happens only with o and not with any other vowel?
Only with o.

With the other vowels it doesn't seem to make pronunciation easier.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Ditronó

Postby Levike » 2015-02-07, 23:05

New innovation to the language.

Until now I didn't have words for time like minute, hour, day, month or year.

So inspired by Hungarian I'm just going to describe them by a number that defines them.

For example instead of saying "a week", I'm going to say "a seven".
The same way "a day" is going to be "a twenty-four".

second - vávóri áglis (tertiary 60)
minute - vávóri tébes (secondary 60)
hour - vávóri (60)
day - tébedáli (24)
week - zéte (7)
month - áglóri (31)
year - lótébe (12)

I'm pretty sure other languages also do this.
Like in Spanish semana (week) probably comes from siete (7) or from Latin's 7.
Last edited by Levike on 2015-02-11, 23:05, edited 2 times in total.
Hungarian (hu) Nem egy nap alatt épült Buda vára. _______German (de) Wo ein Wille ist, da ist auch ein Weg.
English (en) Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. __Spanish (es) No hay ceguera peor que no querer mirar.
Romanian (ro) Nu întinde arcul până nu este bine aşezată săgeata.

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Re: Ditronó

Postby Koko » 2015-02-08, 2:58

Levike wrote:I'm pretty sure other languages also do this.
Like in Spanish semana (week) probably comes from siete (7) or from Latin's 7.

Close: it comes from Latin septimana < septimanus < septem. So it directly comes from septimana, which in turn makes septem semana's great-grandpa.
 (it) Correggimi per favore (se lo sbaglio è grave, sennò non correggermi perché potrei correggermelo da solo)  (bg) Българският не е руски  (cs) Jsem krásný jazyk. :D ^^

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Re: Ditronó

Postby Naava » 2015-02-08, 11:34

If you take a better look, you can see that all of the consonants are actually Latin letters.
I just took my old ugly hand-writing and turned it 90 degrees.

Clever, though I have to say I can't recognize any letters. Either you've managed to modify them very well or your handwriting would guarantee you a job as a doctor.

What do you mean by "some of them". On what does it depend?

On the stem. -i is the marker of the past tense, so if the stem already has "i", it just merges with the past tense: mietin + i = mietin, soin + i = soin and so on vs. olen + i = olin.
(Though my dialect makes the difference, so that instead of merging i's it creates a long vowel: mietin in non-past, mietiin in past. I think South West dialects changed it to a diphtong, so past for "mietin" is mietein.)

The Hungarian Wikipedia says that if the sound comes from your vocal cords then it's zöngés,
and if your vocal cords do not vibrate then it's zöngetlen.

Yes, that's voiced and voiceless in English. (What, Google Translate actually knew something??)

Could it be so because O is a rounded vowel? But then you should also add U... Well, O seems to be the only rounded mid vowel, but I still don't really understand how that would change anything.
Does it work that way in Hungarian too?

I like your idea about the second/minute/hour etc. But how about phrases like "60 hours and 60 minutes"? Or "seven weeks"?
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