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speaking Slovak AND Czech - UniLang

speaking Slovak AND Czech

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kez
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speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby kez » 2009-12-14, 6:49

Hi, everyone. I'm looking for advice on a sort of language situation.
I'm a native English speaker who also speaks Czech proficiently and have lived in the Czech Republic. I've recently gotten a job in Slovakia and will be moving there in about a month. I have no problems at all understanding Slovak. Does it make sense for me to attempt to actually learn and speak Slovak, or should I just stick with Czech? I'm one of those people who picks up accents and dialects very quickly, so I'm sure that no matter what I try, I'll end up speaking some sort of unholy hybrid after a while and everyone will laugh at me in both countries. What do you think?

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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby Riks » 2009-12-24, 20:55

kez wrote:Hi, everyone. I'm looking for advice on a sort of language situation.
I'm a native English speaker who also speaks Czech proficiently and have lived in the Czech Republic. I've recently gotten a job in Slovakia and will be moving there in about a month. I have no problems at all understanding Slovak. Does it make sense for me to attempt to actually learn and speak Slovak, or should I just stick with Czech? I'm one of those people who picks up accents and dialects very quickly, so I'm sure that no matter what I try, I'll end up speaking some sort of unholy hybrid after a while and everyone will laugh at me in both countries. What do you think?


Hello. If you are fond of languages it is quite good idea to learn Slovak, but I'm affraid it could be worthless effort cause these two languages are almost equal.
Fluent: Slovak, Czech, English
Intermediate: German, Romanian
Basics: Hungarian, French, Swedish


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kez
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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby kez » 2009-12-28, 7:49

I'm affraid it could be worthless effort cause these two languages are almost equal.


No, a kvuli tomu se zeptam. Kdyz mluvim cesky, Slovaci me rozumi, a ja rozumim slovensky. Problem je v tom, ze nareci a dialekty jsou pro me velmi nakazlive, tak po par mesicu na Slovensku urcite zacnu mluvit ceskoslovensky. To nechci, protoze lidi se na me budou smat jak v Cesku tak na Slovensku. Tak se zeptam, jestli to by bylo lepsi, kdybych se snazila od zacatku mluvit jenom slovensky nebo cesky, nebo asi je to marny a stejne budu mluvit jenom ceskoslovensky.

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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby chung » 2009-12-31, 5:47

While it may be easier for your purposes to focus on one of standard Czech or standard Slovak, and keep them distinct in your mind, you'll probably find that people mix things to varying degrees. A little bit of mixing in informal speech on your part will very likely not make you the target of derision since many native Slovaks incorporate some Czech words or expressions without a second thought. Of course if you're expected to do a lot of work in formal Slovak circles, then you should make a conscious attempt to adhere to prescriptions in the Slovak dictionaries and weed out "Czechoslovak".

I don't think that it's as bad or clear-cut as you make it. If you go to Slovakia, you'll probably notice that there are some Czechisms in colloquial Slovak.

For example, I've seen some of my Slovak friends use the following in their largely Slovak conversations/emails to me or even among themselves.

- supr (rather than "super" which is marked as Slovak)
- dík(y) (rather than the "proper" Slovak "vďaka")
- není (rather than the "proper" Slovak "nie je" - in fact I've even noticed a few Slovaks in Bratislava say "není som" rather than "nie som")
- jak (rather than the "proper" Slovak "ako")
- moc (rather than the "proper" Slovak "veľa", "mnoho"; "veľmi" - depending on context)

Another thing to keep in mind is that some Moravians (depending on your point view, they may not be Czechs :-P), speak in ways that are closer to Slovaks. For example, one of my Moravian friends uses som (just like in Slovak) rather than the "proper" Czech jsem.

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Jack Daw
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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby Jack Daw » 2010-02-17, 21:06

I'm affraid it could be worthless effort cause these two languages are almost equal.

No, they are not. It is well known and generally proven, that Slovaks are better at mastering any language, than other Central European Slavs (dare I include also Eastern Europe). It is a matter of syntax. Czech language was much more isolated than Slovak for much longer periods of time. This resulted into Slovak adapting also Polish, Germanic and Russian words (Ukraine), wheareas those are languages Czech people always opposed. If you learn Slovak, you will most likely understand also several different dialects of Polish, Russian, Serbian, Croatian (let's not forget about "The Great Migration of Nations" after the Austro-Hungarian monarchy was occupied by Turkish, Osman and Tatar armies - many Croats and Serbs came to Slovakia and many Slovaks went to those countries)... languages you might not understand if you knew only Czech language (because Czechs have always kept to themselves).

Another very important aspect is what I call "no intonation". Although you do intonate in Slovak, it's usually a weak background melody, unlike very strong Czech accents which are then passed on to other languages they learn. Not that Czechoslovak form of language wouldn't be good enough, but the intonation is so messed up that it just doesn't sound well. Like an amateur Russian speaking English. And we all know how that sounds. ;)

kez wrote:No, a kvuli tomu se zeptam. Kdyz mluvim cesky, Slovaci me rozumi, a ja rozumim slovensky. Problem je v tom, ze nareci a dialekty jsou pro me velmi nakazlive, tak po par mesicu na Slovensku urcite zacnu mluvit ceskoslovensky. To nechci, protoze lidi se na me budou smat jak v Cesku tak na Slovensku. Tak se zeptam, jestli to by bylo lepsi, kdybych se snazila od zacatku mluvit jenom slovensky nebo cesky, nebo asi je to marny a stejne budu mluvit jenom ceskoslovensky.

Určite nehovor československy. To je jedna z vecí, ktorá vadí obom národom, buď je to tak, alebo onak. Ak by mal vzniknúť spoločný jazyk, za tých pár desiatok rokov spoločnej existencie by určite vznikol. Jednoducho to neznie dobre, nech sa s tým pohráš akokoľvek chceš.
Odpoveď na tvoju otázku je v ďalšej otázke: Ako by sa na teba pozeral zamestnávateľ (alebo aj spolupracovníci) v Londýne, keby si došiel a hovoril po írsky alebo škótskym dialektom?

chung wrote:While it may be easier for your purposes to focus on one of standard Czech or standard Slovak, and keep them distinct in your mind, you'll probably find that people mix things to varying degrees. A little bit of mixing in informal speech on your part will very likely not make you the target of derision since many native Slovaks incorporate some Czech words or expressions without a second thought. Of course if you're expected to do a lot of work in formal Slovak circles, then you should make a conscious attempt to adhere to prescriptions in the Slovak dictionaries and weed out "Czechoslovak".

That's not entirely true, Slovak does have phrases and dialects that are similar to Czech phrases and dialects, but are usually unlucky derivations. Speaking properly and not using czechisms in Slovak was one of the key part of mastering Slovak at the high school.

chung wrote:- supr (rather than "super" which is marked as Slovak)
- dík(y) (rather than the "proper" Slovak "vďaka")
- není (rather than the "proper" Slovak "nie je" - in fact I've even noticed a few Slovaks in Bratislava say "není som" rather than "nie som")
- jak (rather than the "proper" Slovak "ako")
- moc (rather than the "proper" Slovak "veľa", "mnoho"; "veľmi" - depending on context)

Most of those phrases and words were actually abbreviated because of their role in our language. Once the word super came to Slovak from German, it was quickly shortened, because it was native to eliminate the influence of Germanic languages.
The same with dík. Není is mostly used in Bratislava, not because it would have something in common with Czech, but because most of the people living in Petržalka and surrounding areas speak very... hard. Their dialect is hard, it lacks softness. Precisely what makes Slovak a beautiful language - it's softness. Such people are usually popular subjects of very cruel jokes (let's not pretend that those jokes don't exist!), especially at universities, where they are confronted with Slovaks from other, cleaner and softer speaking parts of our country.
The last two words actually are czechisms and probably the most dreaded and popular ones.

chung wrote:Another thing to keep in mind is that some Moravians (depending on your point view, they may not be Czechs :-P), speak in ways that are closer to Slovaks. For example, one of my Moravian friends uses som (just like in Slovak) rather than the "proper" Czech jsem.

That's why nobody actually knows, where Morava belongs to. Does it belong to Slovakia or Czech republic? You can usually hear people from Prague and other Czech cities refer to Czech republic as Czechia (or former Bohemia) and Morava (note that they consider it to be two, not one). I'm unsure whether Moravian language and also it's derivative, záhorský dialekt, aren't in fact a third language. Because it is just as similar to both languages, as it is different.
Before 1945 Czechs referred to their republic as "Čechy, Morava a Slezsko", but then all that made Slezsko different - big German population (thus a region, where people usually spoke only German), was relocated to Germany and ever since Slezsko has only been a formal name of one region, but it does not have any distinct meaning today.

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daniellle
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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby daniellle » 2010-03-04, 2:25

^ very good explanation! :)

just wait till you're there, then you'll see if you need it or not.. :?

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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby Cesare M. » 2011-05-08, 15:26

Slovenčina a čeština sú podobné, nič viac, nič menej.
Môžete sa učiť po slovensky. Hovorím plynulo po slovensky a česky, a tak viem.
Last edited by Cesare M. on 2011-05-08, 16:55, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby Mikey93 » 2011-05-08, 16:14

Cesare M. wrote:Slovensky a Česky sme podobný, nič viac, nič menej.
Ti môžete učiť Slovensky. Hovorím plynulo Slovensky a Česky, a tak viem. ;)


Si zabil :D
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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby Jack Daw » 2011-05-08, 16:21

Cesare M. wrote:Slovensky a Česky sme podobný, nič viac, nič menej.
Ti môžete učiť Slovensky. Hovorím plynulo Slovensky a Česky, a tak viem. ;)

Slovenskyčina a čČeskyština smeú podobnýé, nič viac, nič menej.
TiMôžete sa učiť po sSlovensky. Hovorím plynulo po sSlovensky a čČesky, a tak viem. ;)

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Cesare M.
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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby Cesare M. » 2011-05-08, 16:54

Jack Daw wrote:
Cesare M. wrote:Slovensky a Česky sme podobný, nič viac, nič menej.
Ti môžete učiť Slovensky. Hovorím plynulo Slovensky a Česky, a tak viem. ;)

Slovenskyčina a čČeskyština smeú podobnýé, nič viac, nič menej.
TiMôžete sa učiť po sSlovensky. Hovorím plynulo po sSlovensky a čČesky, a tak viem. ;)


Ďakujem! ;)

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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby Cesare M. » 2011-05-08, 17:39

Mikey93 wrote:
Cesare M. wrote:Slovensky a Česky sme podobný, nič viac, nič menej.
Ti môžete učiť Slovensky. Hovorím plynulo Slovensky a Česky, a tak viem. ;)


Si zabil :D



Ne zabal :D

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Cesare M.
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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby Cesare M. » 2011-06-01, 11:48

Mohol by mi niekto povedať, prečo jazyk sa nazýva Československu? :hmm: Čestina a slovenčina nie sú vzájomne zrozumiteľné.... :?

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Jack Daw
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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby Jack Daw » 2011-06-01, 15:08

Cesare M. wrote:Mohol by mi niekto povedať, prečo jazyk sa nazýva Československu? :hmm: Čestina a slovenčina nie sú vzájomne zrozumiteľné.... :?

Taký jazyk neexistuje. Gramatika je buď slovenská, alebo česká. Potom sú rôzne mixy, ako napríklad niektoré moravské dialekty a záhoračtina, ale to nie sú samostatné jazyky.

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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby Cesare M. » 2011-07-14, 16:25

Jack Daw wrote:
Cesare M. wrote:Mohol by mi niekto povedať, prečo jazyk sa nazýva Československu? :hmm: Čestina a slovenčina nie sú vzájomne zrozumiteľné.... :?

Taký jazyk neexistuje. Gramatika je buď slovenská, alebo česká. Potom sú rôzne mixy, ako napríklad niektoré moravské dialekty a záhoračtina, ale to nie sú samostatné jazyky.



Ďakujem, premyslel som rovnaké. Teraz...otázku je ak veľami strankými tvrd, že oba jazykych sú vzájomne zrozumiteľné. Podlé meho názoru, môžu.... Gramaticka je podobné, veľami slovách sú podobné, tak, možbyť...

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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby Taunt » 2011-11-25, 23:43

Čau Cesare, oba jazyky jsou vzájemně srozumitelné. Pokud nepočítáš názvy rostlin nebo některé zcela odlišné slova (rampouch-cencúl) tak se většinou liší jen velmi málo. Slováci nemají ř a proto se hodně takových slov liší. Např. zářivý - žiarivý , hořký - horký atd.

Ok they are not as close as the Balkan langs, but are mutually intelligible and one could be a dialect of the other and vice versa. Slovaks are more understood by speakers of Croatian or Russian, because the language is more Slavic (gombík - Croatian gumb - Czech knoflík), while Czech has borrowed many words from German.Some Slovaks tend to claim their language is the older one, but we don't really give two sh-ts. BTW. I'm amazed by your Slovak. I can't imagine learning Czech - Slovak -Polish as L2. The grammar is just ridiculous. Good luck
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Re: speaking Slovak AND Czech

Postby Cesare M. » 2011-11-25, 23:46

Taunt wrote:Čau Cesare, oba jazyky jsou vzájemně srozumitelné. Pokud nepočítáš názvy rostlin nebo některé zcela odlišné slova (rampouch-cencúl) tak se většinou liší jen velmi málo. Slováci nemají ř a proto se hodně takových slov liší. Např. zářivý - žiarivý , hořký - horký atd.

Ok they are not as close as the Balkan langs, but are mutually intelligible and one could be a dialect of the other and vice versa. Slovaks are more understood by speakers of Croatian or Russian, because the language is more Slavic (gombík - Croatian gumb - Czech knoflík), while Czech has borrowed many words from German.Some Slovaks tend to claim their language is the older one, but we don't really give two sh-ts. BTW. I'm amazed by your Slovak. I can't imagine learning Czech - Slovak -Polish as L2. The grammar is just ridiculous. Good luck


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